Advisory Council Update for the week ending November 7th

Discussion in 'Communications' started by ReaperFett, Nov 8, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    Sithman... merging it with the Amphitheatre was one idea. There was also the idea of splitting it up between the Movie Boards, LucasFilm Projects and the Amphitheatre. I requested that the discussion be put on hold for at least two weeks in the AC and it appears everyone has concured with my request. :)
  2. ReaperFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Sithman, Im not a Mod :)


    ANd Im still bitter about noone answering my question in there ages back.





    joke, joke :)
  3. Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 5
    Dear AC persons,

    a long time ago i was promised an Underwater Basket Weaving forum. i'm still waiting. the mods are taking way too long to add it. please discuss this issue and use your influence to speed up the creation of this forum. thx.
  4. mac-nut Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2001
    star 5
    porky, add a connection to sw, for a faster response. basket weaving belongs to JCC unless you can make a direct connection to something SW. :D :D :D
  5. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I can tell you right now that the Film Music Hall is the primary reason I post on the JC anymore. It is the only place without the incessant bashing/gushing politics of much of the rest of the JC.

    If it were to be merged into the Amphitheatre, I would probably lose all reason to post on the JC and not come back. I know that sounds harsh but this is my "home." I live for music. I love music and have it constantly playing. Film scores are a huge part of my tastes in music. There are very few places I have found to chat about Star Wars music and other film scores.

    The friendships and camraderie found in the Film Music Hall are the sort of community that the JC forums should be proud to cultivate. It is real, genuine human interaction by a group of people with similar loves and tastes. The people in the Film Music Hall respect other people's opinions without bashing or being very cynical or bitter.

    Do some research. Hang out and chat in the Film Music Hall. It's a great place to be. Then go hang out at jwfan.net and find out how nasty and jaded and bitter a music community can be. You will appreciate what the Film Music Hall is and decide to keep it intact. Maybe you will even help generate more interest in the Hall and make it a more popular place.

    Be leaders. Realize that being a Mod or other such JC leader is about more than policing people and make an active effort to come in and post. Generate interest in music. It is a very important subject. Music is a very major part of Star Wars and of all films that use it. Music deserves it's own board.

    Look around. Realize that Sithman is right. Other boards have far LESS posts over a far LONGER span of time. Look at the TPM forum. It is almost as dead as the Music Hall now. Are we planning to merge it with AOTC? Realize that there might be other forums that would not be affected by merging them to streamline the JC.

    To merge the Film Music Hall or to ALTER the Hall to be ONLY Star Wars music would be to destroy a community of people. It's that simple. The interest in the Music Hall is good. Use it wisely. Use it to increase traffic to the forum and generate discussion about film music.

  6. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    I don't think it is so much about a lack of interest in music as it is about the way music discussion is split into two forums. The mods want to encourage the same kind of dicussion in the Amphitheatre that is found in the Music Hall, but there is no way to do that while they both exist. They won't be able to lure that kind of community to the Amp while there is another forum for it to gather in.

    I don't post in either board, so I'm not particularly involved. But I don't think emotional pleas are really addressing the issue about why the forum's future is in question. Yes, I know that it was mentioned that the forum is dead, and it very nearly is. It's slower than TPM, and that board moves at a snail's pace.

    But, I think that if the Amp didn't exist, then dividing up the forum wouldn't be under consideration. In other words, it isn't it's traffic alone that is making this a possibility. It's a combination of the two, that there is now another forum in which the same discussions can be had, and because the Music Hall community is small enough to be merged with the existing Amp community without overwhelming that forum.

  7. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    Oy oy oy.

    I'm going to say this once and again.
    Moving it into the Amphitheatre was one idea. Others were brought up -- another idea was to split the board up between the movie forums, LucasFilm Projects and the Amphitheatre. And then of course, I've heard ideas (not so much from AC members) about merging the Film Music Hall with SW Misc.

    And yes, one of the ideas behind it was to bring the sort of discussions that hold presence in the Film Music Hall into the Amphitheatre. Spiderdevil's original plan for an Arts/Culture board involved reworking the Film Music Hall into something like the Amphitheatre is today.

    Just figured I'd try to clear a little bit up. :)

  8. shinjo_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Thanks for the update ;)

    Reforms for SW Misc?

    It will be interesting to see how this turns out...
  9. bright sith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 1999
    star 5
    As an outsider, I'm unclear on how you wish to split, merge or re-invent the forums. But let me clarify, too. ;) I hope my posts did not come off as emotional pleas, as Gay-Len puts it, but as valid concerns about the quality of posting.

    The reason the Amphitheatre was born was not because the JCC couldn't have serious discussion, but because it was damn hard to let it survive. Similarly, the reason why the Music forum has tremendous value is that any JCer and Music forum regulars can post a discussion about something that would not survive in other forums. A recent thread about Goldsmith's score for The Omen had less than 10 replies. But I defy anyone to say that the thread is a waste; on the contrary, it provided members with first hand opinions about one particular film score, and I for one, am grateful for it. That thread, however, would not survive anywhere else. And this is the fundemental reason why the Music forum, as it is, has great value.
  10. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    While I never saw the petition for the Film Music Hall, I'm guessing the Amphitheatre one and the FMH's were a lot alike.

    One of the largest concerns in the AC debate was the issue of redundancy -- everything discussed in the Film Music Hall, save the Star Wars music, could be discussed in the Amphitheatre. If the Film Music Hall were to only allow Star Wars discussion, though, the board wouldn't have all the traffic it generates now.
  11. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    But the Amp isn't enough like YJCC to make that analogy valid.

    In YJCC, threads drop off to the second page within an hour. It's that pace that makes discussion difficult, because unless the thread receives immediate attention from many users, it's hard for it to stay visible long enough to build up interest. The sheer number of people who are reading the YJCC forum at the same time makes the chances more likely that a few people will take interest. But the number of threads that are constantly being created tends to null that advantage.

    The Amp is very different. A thread in the Amp will remain on the first page for at least a day or two, giving just about all of it's regulars a chance to read it. That is the reasoning behind giving music and arts topics their own forum, so that the smaller crowd who were interested in those topics and aren't here every hour of the day will have a chance to support and participate in those kinds of threads in before they drop out of sight.

    The pace in the Amp is only slightly faster than it is in the Music Hall. I don't think music discussion would be squelched out there as quickly as you might think.

    RMCOY, I know that there is also other talk about moving the contents of the Hall to forums other than the Amp, but I still maintain that I don't believe dividing it up would have even been considered if the possiblity of merging it with the Amp hadn't been brought up first. Moreover, I don't think moving any of the SW Soundtrack threads to the movie forums would be anywhere close to a satisfactory result for the Hall community.

    AOTC is still a fast moving forum, much faster than the Amp. Any soundtrack thread there would quickly be lost and most likely overrun by 'bashers' and 'gushers,' for whom it would just become another topic to argue over. That would also be a likely possibility in the TPM board. Plus, they would be restricted to one thread per forum. :\

    So it's my guess that the Hall community would fight that idea twice as strongly as they fight a merge with the Amp. I don't think that is possibility they would be willing to consider. So it will probably come down to moving to the Amp or not.
  12. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    Dagsy, the idea behind letting ACers look at new banners before they go up is to decrease the likelihood of another debacle like the one of the last YJCC banner. Granted, I'm not sure it would have occurred to me any more than it did to the designers of that banner what a big ruckus it would create, but the more reviewers you have, the more likely you are to catch problems.
  13. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    This post will not be long, but I've posted the majority of my thoughts on the preceeding page.


    I just wanted to say that I am disturbed by the amount of persons giving their take on cleaving an entire community in two who have never even set foot in the Music forum! This is not only unjust to those of us who participate in the Music Forum, but your statements seem more or less irrevelant.
    Before anyone passes judgement, go to the Music Forum yourself. Check out the disucussion. Like strilo said, there aren't many boards on the JC where you can find such frank discussion of ideas without flaming, tempers, or spam. We love posting there, and all the members try to encourage new posters.
    Don't believe me? Is that because you haven't looked, or simply because you're supposing that this isn't true? Click your mouse button a few times and dig through a few Music Forum threads. It is truly a unique community.

    The Film Music Hall. Go check it out. :)
  14. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I must echo strilo & Sithman's thoughts.

    ...it's better for the JC as a whole if we can streamline the forums as much as possible. Some new members have said the sheer number of boards here is intimidating...

    And a smaller number of forums with umpteen threads wouldn't be intimidating & confusing to newcomers?

    Is there a reason people feel a need for a certain "traffic count" in forums? Look at Sithy's post on the last page for the numbers. And I don't think any of those forums should be changed unless the posters therein want change.

    Personally, I like a slightly slower pace. Plus, traffic runs in cycles, following film, dvd & cd releases and announcements.

    I have not seen one logical reason to merge or break up the FMH.

    EDITS: typos/>
  15. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    if the forum has a small, but dedicated membership, and there is no pressing technical need to remove it, then why cause the stress?
  16. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    If it can be avoided, it will :)

    I'm working on some new ideas as we speak to help generate more traffic, yet clean the board up and keep it to strictly Star Wars discussion, along with the members there. :)
  17. Valiowk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2000
    star 6
    Nice update, Reap! :)

    Apologies for the absence in the past week; was off studying for my Chinese exam...
  18. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    "I'm working on some new ideas as we speak to help generate more traffic..."

    Why do we need more traffic again? :confused: Don't those forums I listed on the last page need more traffic than the Film Music Hall does? :confused:


    "...clean the board up and keep it to strictly Star Wars discussion..."

    Why again? To be quite honest, it doesn't appear the mods/AC members are appealing to reason anymore, they're simply out to get the Music Forum.
    So there are threads in the Amphitheatre that already talk about composers and different film music, eh? Well, wouldn't THOSE topics be in the wrong forum, and not ours?

    Film MUSIC Hall... Amphitheatre... I sorta assumed the film music stuff went in the Film Music Hall, but then again, what do I know?
  19. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    "To be quite honest, it doesn't appear the mods/AC members are appealing to reason anymore,"

    Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Why would they need to be appealing to reason? 'Requesting' to reason? Do you mean they aren't listening to your appeals?


    And you haven't actually given any solid reasoning yet. There has been a lot of "But we love the forum as it is!" but that isn't reason. There is no solid evidence to believe that music dicussion wouldn't thrive in other forums. It doesn't make sense to have two forums for music discussion just because one group really likes their board. That would be giving special treatment to one group that no one else gets.


    Taken from the forum decription here:
    "Discuss and debate music, art, literature, dramatic works (film, theater, TV) and cultural topics with your fellow [Jedi] Council members."
    (Note to mods: the description still has Sith Council in it, left over from Halloween)

    So both music and films are to be discussed in one forum, but we need to have a separate forum for film music? Thats a stretch.

    EDIT: clarified
  20. ReaperFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Sithman, ironnic you say we dont listen to reason about the Point of discussion. You know, to DISCUSS the POINT?
  21. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    "Taken from the forum decription here:
    "Discuss and debate music, art, literature, dramatic works (film, theater, TV) and cultural topics with your fellow [Jedi] Council members."
    "


    The description of the forum was not done by me. The Film Music Hall was created before the Amphitheatre and thos terms should never have ever been put in the Amphitheatre's description and left such film music to the Film Music Hall. :)
  22. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    The FMH was originally the SW music forum, but the title got changed...
  23. bright sith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 1999
    star 5
    Gay-Len, in terms of how fast each forum moves, no, my analogy doesn't necessary work out. But, the key here is the conditions to induce quality discussion, and in those terms, the analogy works. Let me explain.

    I'm a big believer that specifics determine the quality of posts; I doubt this is a controversial statement. Look through the Amphitheatre, and you'll see that most of the threads have very vague titles. If a topic is regarding a movie, it's generally a very broad discussion with no focus? Why is this? Because the forum does not induce the members to talk about specifics. This is not true in the movie forums because, well yeah, we're supposed to talk about AOTC, so every thread has its own focus and discussion instead of general feelings.

    When we compare the Amphitheatre to the JCC, we again see this situation. We are induced to talk about the valuable aspects of an art work instead of a general feeling. So when you consider the difference of film music's place in the Amphitheatre and the Film Music Hall, the Film Music Hall naturally has the power to encourage members to discuss in detail, rather than broad strokes.

    Now, if you feel that non-Star Wars related music simply should not exist in the JC, then I can say nothing. But this is not the case. If you can allow it to exist in the Amphitheatre, you allow it in the JC. And if the quality of posts is your first concern, as I believe it should be, then the Film Music Hall encourages better ones.
  24. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    Who wrote the description could not be any less relevant. That is what is discussed in that board. Serious music and film discussion is sent to the Amphitheatre. ALL other kinds of music is lumped into a forum with film, television, theater, dance, etc. There is no way to justify having an entirely separate forum for just music in films when there are other places it could fit in easily.

    Television fans don't get their own forum. Television soundtrack fans don't have their own form. Classical music fans don't have their own forum. The only reason so far presented that film music should have it's own forum is because the people who visit it, like it.

    "Because the forum does not induce the members to talk about specifics. "

    No, that is because the creators of the threads intentionally select vague titles. There isn't room in any forum that lumps together so many topics to have a thread about every single element of a film/program/play. It can all be discussed in the thread designated for that film/program/play, and infact, it helps create a flow to the conversation. Instead of stalling out on an issue after 35 posts, they have more topics to move on to.

    And that still doesn't address the specific need to have an entire forum dedicated to film music alone. Whether I care if non-SW soundtrack music is discussed on the JC is completely irrelevant as well. Non-SW music is being discussed, as I have already said several times.
  25. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Excellent post, bright sith, my thoughts exactly.

    A specific thread about the amazing, soaring piece we all know and love as "The Dark Side Beckons" would no doubt not last among so many other threads dedicated to other subjects.



    Gay-Len: Why the strong opposition to the Music Forum splitting? I don't recall even seeing you post there.
Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.