Adywan Cut and Its Possible Impact on Future Star Wars Releases

I feel that that is Adywan's version, and I respect that.
But first and foremost, Star Wars is George Lucas' creation. He makes changes based on what he feels it should be.

Just with TF and ROTF. You could say all day how they suck, or Michael Bay is a crap director, but at the end of the day they are his vision of Transformers, and that is that.

 

I agree with alot of your post.There where so many obvious and easy things fixed it's not funny not to mention stuff like the emperor scene in the ESB that looks like it will blow GL's out of the water.I would hoping seeing Adywan's versions would inspire GL to make a non half-assed version of the OT so he's not out done in many ways by a fan.All though at this point I think it's better that GL quit wasting his career on SW and finally move on.



GL's a different guy now who's going back and editing/changing the story of another person,a younger GL.He's putting stuff in the movies that's not in the script and something like Luke's scream he changed back so it's not out of the blue to say he doesn't know what he's doing and flying by the seat of his pants.He's also changing ESB a movie that's not his to change so it's different then ripping pages out of Moby Dick.I look at Adywan's cut as another version of SW like all of GL's versions the phantom edit etc etc.The originals are always THE versions as they where made in the moment by the GL of that moment.

 

Problem is it may be too good. He listened to fans and gave them what they wanted. Something Lucas has not thought to do. He has big shoes to fill for his next release. Will he be able to do better than Adywan.


Of course Lucas doesn't do that. Why should he? That's not how one create a work of art. You create what you want to create. It's supposed to be an expression of your ideas, thoughts or feelings. And if people want to pay to enjoy it, fine. If not . . . too bad. I'm not into creating a work of art by adhering to what others want. That's not art. That's sucking up.


GL's a different guy now who's going back and editing/changing the story of another person,a younger GL.He's putting stuff in the movies that's not in the script and something like Luke's scream he changed back so it's not out of the blue to say he doesn't know what he's doing and flying by the seat of his pants.He's also changing ESB a movie that's not his to change so it's different then ripping pages out of Moby Dick.I look at Adywan's cut as another version of SW like all of GL's versions the phantom edit etc etc.The originals are always THE versions as they where made in the moment by the GL of that moment.


George Lucas changed his own work, because he was not personally satisfied with it. And he had every right to do so. If you don't like the Special Edition versions of the OT, DON'T WATCH IT. Just stick to what you do like. Is that so hard?

 

I'm sorry, but I truly believe George HAS to take the fans into consideration when he picks apart his movies. Yes, from a creative standpoint they are his to do what he wants with. But they are out there for the fans and have been since 1977. People have fallen in love with these movies. That does count for something, yes?

Anytime an artist puts their art out there for the masses, the masses get an investment in it from a personal standpoint. Not ownership, but a personal say in the matter. To ignore those masses and just do what you wish with your art is in poor taste, in my opinion. It's hard to explain. From a legal standpoint, George has full ownership and rights to his movies. From an investment standpoint (not financially), the fans also have a sort of ownership. Does that make sense?

 

You make total sense,Jawa.

Why are you yelling about a meaningless point?No where in that post do I even mention watching the SE.

 

Yes, it is. Because what I DO like are the theatrical versions of the films, which are only available on subpar transfers. There are cult movies made for less than a million dollars that have gotten better DVD transfers.

 

well i think your points would be valid were we talking about a single painting, a single canvas, or a one-off production being altered. but its a film - a massively distributed, reproduced picece of art. in releasing the classic trilogy on dvd we now have a preservation of the movies as they were for those people that loved them in this form AND for future generations who want to see how they looked on first release. they may not be pristine transfers but they are perfectly acceptable reproductions of how they movies looked. if people then want them cleaned up and restored they're almost contradicting themselves because they state they want something "untouched" but are then asking for it to be to cleaned up.

the only other case one can have is to state that they believe their preferred version to be the best version, and therefore that be the only one that future generations should see. but thats an opinion. its no more valid than the opinion of somebody else who disagrees. and fundamentally the opinion of the artist supercedes the opinion of the fan anyway. films are not made by commitee and should never be. when they are they are usually terrible and designed to fit demographics.

as we were discussing before, a piece of art is never finished. a version that is released first is not deserving of the definitive tag any more than a later version, simply because a film studio were locked into a release date. its really such fuss over such small differences anyway. its a tad amusing people get so upset over them. lucas has not changed the really crucial fundamental elements in the film - characters, plot etc. had he completely removed chewebacca and given Han a pet frog instead i may have some more sympathy. yes, han now shoots first and even i disagree with that - but i'm not going to spit the dummy over it and petition a rerelease. its beyond my control and so it should be. just because i love it doesn't mean i own it - intellectually or emotionally.

 

The OOT looked MUCH better in theaters than it does on the half-baked DVD release. So we're not asking for it to be changed, just brought up to the quality of other DVD's. It's not a contradiction. The movie itself won't change. It's like the difference between looking out a dirty window versus a clean one. The view is the same, but which would you rather have?

 

a few, tiny specs of dirt doesnt mean your view of the scenery is completely obscured. anyway, you're only visiting the house - you dont own it, so you'll have to accept it

 

But while you're reciting the same old lines, things have changed. Post-adywan, people ARE changing the thing they don't own. All it takes is software. Software which will be getting easier to use and cheaper every day. Sooner or later someone will do a semi-original restoration (adywan already did some of the most difficult shots). Rightly or wrongly, nobody's going to just accept anything. I don't like it, I wish LFL would just release a good product, but this is where it is. (The Blade Runner set doesn't include 5 versions of the movie just to be nice, it wiped out the bootleg market for those other versions.)
The flip side of course is that even Adywan's version isn't good enough for a bunch of people now. 1997 created a monster without even trying (just by using various gimmicks to pimp the rerelease.)

 

The whole reason these versions exist is because of demand. And that demand should and hopefully will be fully satisfied when Lucasfilm releases an official set.

But until then, the boots will flourish it seems.

 

But I will tell the owner of that house they should clean their windows. Or I simply won't look out their windows anymore. If the person had dirty windows because they couldn't afford to have them cleaned, that would be understandable. That's not the case with the OOT. They already cleaned up everything, but added in scenes that some people would rather not have. The original, unedited, un-CGI'd OOT is what a lot of people crave, but in the same quality as the SE's.

Since George has turned his back on his original fanbase, I can do the same to him. I haven't invested a penny in anything Star Wars since 1999 with the debut of his prequels.

 

If my neighbor of someone on my road does not mow their lawn and let's it grow 5 feet high and tosses beer cans out in the yard and just in general takes no care or love in the house, yard or the neighborhood then I have every right to tell him to clean it up. Even if I do not own it.

Lucas will eventually clean up the versions. This all boils down to money. He has to have some major changes on every new release or they wont sell. Just classic George sticking it to the fans and trying to get the most out of then as possible.

 

then thats fine. you're even. kind of a silly thing to be bitter over. and why should lucas have loyalty to the fanbase? he gives us star wars, we love it and therefore he should bow down to our every wish thereafter? i'm afraid it doesn't work like that. he's no obligation to release them in any form, restored or left untouched.

 

If Lucas doesn't want to play nice, he should stay out of the public eye. He put his stuff out there, he should listen to his market. I don't mean to give in to 100% of demands, but at least act like you care what people think. To make movies and change them constantly and then ignore the complaints about said changes is pretty arrogant, if you ask me. And please, don't refer to anyone who doesn't like the SE's or PT as being bitter. That's an inappropriate label. I'm not bitter, I'm disappointed.

 

You didn't see AOTC or ROTS, then?

So how do you know you don't like them?

Or did you see them for free?

 

I saw them for free. A friend loaned me the DVD's. I paid to see TPM in a theater.

 

Jawa, I admire your loyalty. I also admire that you love star wars so much that you refuse to accept neglect and down right dirty business practices on behalf of Lucas film. I.E, all the changes and new releases just to sell another copy and make more money.

If all the fans could unite and stick together we could really hit Lucas where it hurts. His pocket book. I actually went to the theater to see all the PT films and while I do enjoy them I think they were poorly thought out and put together. The biggest disgrace is the whole special edition nonsense of the OT films to just sell more copies.

I can't imagine any director or artist going back yrs later and changing his art. I have heard many directors from spielberg to James cameron say how that pratice is not one to be admired.

If I direct a film at 20 or create a piece of art at 20 then that piece of art reflects who I am at that stage of my life. My taste, my ideals, my likes and dislikes. 20 yrs later of course those likes and dislikes are likely to change that is all a part of growing and maturing but the important thing is the art I create at 20 reflects who I am and my personal taste at 20. It shouldn't be changed when I am 40. That would be stealing and robing from my self the taste and likes I had half my life ago. All the changes Lucas made for the special editions were done for one reason. To sell copies and to get people to go to the theater to see them. Do you honestly think if Lucas would have just re-released all the OT films like they were they would have earned over 100 million dollars each? Of course not. If you look at the previews for those special editions released at the theater back in 97 you can see how all the emphasis is on how many changes have been made and how many new scenes were added. This trick worked and it got people in the theater to watch the films. As Kurtz as said in many interviews, most of the changes made in the special editions could have easily of been shot that way back then but it wasn't because the script was not writen that way. Yes, Lucas claims he changed them because he couldn't do it back then. Now who has the most to gain or lose from telling the truth? Kurtz has nothing to lose or gain by telling the truth. Lucas on the other hand...

What saddens me is how many fans ignore Lucas motivation and reasons for the special editions and still praise and admire this liar all because they don't want anything to disturb their perfect picture of Lucas as a deity or perfection in the star wars universe.

The truth is easy to see if one is willing to open his or her eyes to it.

 

i wasnt stating it for this reason i was stating it over the following:

"Since George has turned his back on his original fanbase, I can do the same to him."

That's more than disappointed I would say. Thats bitter.

 

yeah! i remember them good old days when lucasfilm and 20th century fox released the movies for free! why cant we have them back?

haha, you kidding me right? so you've not seen the altered version of ET then? im sure cameron isn't the type of director who would frown on it either. coppolla? perhaps. but why is their opinion any more valid than lucas'? just 'cos you like them more?

this is just silly and ridiculously pretentious. we are not talking about changes that affect the fundamentals of the films. there are many other reasons aside from profit that these movies were digitally altered. i dont think the addition of new sfx added very much at all to the box-office take. it was more about the chance to see the movies in the theatres again that led to such massive hype. call the re-release pursuit of profit if you want but considering much of that money went into paying for the PT i think its valid enough. even if it weren't you cant argue with supply and demand. something is not worthless or without integrity because its released for profit.

I could easily speculate that Kurtz is both bitter and of selective memory. yes, some of the things may have been possible - but the film was way overbudget and way past shooting schedules for a start. they couldnt get a lot of things, fx included, finished to the required standard. why do you think lucas was so disappointed with it at the time? it wasnt becase the technology wasnt there. that wouldnt have made sense. its because it was for the most part and he didn't get the most out of it.

please stop patronising people. its worse than listening to anakin whining an anti-lucas agenda is no more valid than a pro-lucas one. your judgement seems to be firmly in the former camp and therefore deserves no more respect than that of the people in the latter. even though i dont believe it was, so what if lucas motivation was money? it gave me

 

Funny since Spielberg did it once with CE3K where he changed the entire ending for nothing more than gratuitous sfx , and then again with ET for the 20th anniversary.

So I doubt he even came out against that practice.

And Cameron's beef with the SW SEs is interesting since he also released The Abyss Special Edition and then followed by numerous cuts of T2.

 

Ah yes, the good old guns becoming walkie talkies.

 

LFL's goal has been to inspire very fierce, almost scary brand-loyalty in fans, the kind that lasts for years. It feeds the machine and that's fine and all of us here are proof that it works. But they can't have it both ways, they can't say "join fan clubs, buy video games and other stuff, but DON'T have a reaction to the movies unless it's pure love. Just shut up and buy stuff." Which is what this dopey dvd situation amounts to. (not just the quality of the 2006 originals, but the 2004 "temporary" cuts. Where else on earth can you get away with selling temporary, glitchy, in-progress rushed versions and then keep selling them for 5 years?

 

Yes, we bashers are a bitter bunch.

I am really getting tired of that label.

 

Let's say I'm Paul McCartney. I listen back to my old recordings with The Beatles and decide I could do better vocals. They weren't what I wanted at the time, but technology couldn't provide what I needed then. I go back, erase the original vocals (calling them inferior rough drafts) and record newer, better takes. Do you think that would cause a stink for some people? Um, yeah! Would it be destroying art? I'd say so.

When you create something at a specific time and place, it becomes a part of those times. To tamper with something years later simply because you can is really in bad form. Is George looking for perfection? Is his ego that huge?

Star Wars from 1977 looks dated today. It's SUPPOSED to look dated. It's OLD.

Do early Beatles recordings sound as good as music being recorded today? Of course not.

A true artist puts their work out there and moves on. Find one artist of any medium that is 100% content with their works and I'll show you a bad liar.

I am tired of the OT being hacked away like bad plastic surgery. You can't make a 30+ year old movie look like it came out yesterday. Nor should you try.

I believe it was Mr. Lucas himself that said "Movies are never finished, they're abandoned." Okay then, move along George, move along.