After just watching TPM 4 years removed I noticed....

Ok I have a few things to say:

a)Jar-Jar was funny, when I was 11.
b)Episode I was a great all around movie with the exception of Jar-Jar.
c)As a race-fan I loved the podracing, it was awsome.
d)"But which one was destroyed..." is one of the most chilling moments in the saga. I mean come on he's right next to you!!!!!!
e)The 3 person duel is second to Vader v. Obi-Wan in ROTS
f)Qui Gon Jinn was the coolest Jedi just slightly beating Yoda on the "Cool scale of geekdom". (Flame on about this one)

 

He has been watching over Ani. You can hear his voice saying "no"
even as Yoda is sensing Ani's pain, when he's killing the sand people

 

yup your right. but theres one thing:

When you hear the "Anakin, Anakin, No!" the camera has left Anakin and is on Yoda. So its prob Yoda who is hearing the voice, not Anakin

 

Basically, I loved TPM as seeing the Jedi in their last 'golden' years. Personally, I did not like Jar Jar, the pod race and the Qui-Gon character taking the entire movie away from what should have been a movie about the genesis of the Obi-Wan and Anakin and Padme relationships. As a result, the rest of the PT suffered greatly. The actors have had to scrape up relationships out of very little screen time together and fans have had to grab at scraps of possible cameraderie from single lines of dialogue and meaningful looks from characters who should have been very obviously close.

 

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away when I heard there was going to be another SW movie released in theatres, I was a little skeptical about going to see it, because of the reviews it was getting. I didn't want to pay $$$ to see something I may not like. So, I waited for it to be released on video. I watched it, then sold it at a garage sale. Basically, I thought it whomped. Then, about 2 weeks ago I decided to buy it on DVD to give it another chance. I thought maybe this time it'll be different, after seeing ROTS. It did. I mean seriously. It has more meaning then ever before. I believe ROTS has made all of us see the other 5 movies in a whole different light.

 

I am an OT generation guy, I was 23 when Phantom Menace came out. I saw the movie a gazillion times in the theater because it was, for the first time in 16 years, a new Star Wars movie! Every time I watch it though, EVERY SINGLE TIME I think to myself, "this is pretty cool..." right up until Jar Jar first appears on screen, after Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan show up on Naboo. And he never shuts up. He is so much more irritating than C3P0 in my opinion, because that stupid accent and his clumsiness are so jarringly scene-stealing (in a bad way) that you can't possibly ignore them. Whereas with C3P0, he only says/does annoying things when the action is not at its most dramatic, and even when he does have antics during a "heavy" scene, it's easy to minimize him. Yet even HE is more annoying in the prequels, particularly in AOTC. Pun after pun after pun ("I'm quite beside myself" and "this is such a drag" are such HORRIBLE lines that Lucas should have seriously just taken them out of the final film).

When I first saw AOTC, I liked it a lot. More than TPM. But now, I feel more and more like, despite its flaws (which to me is basically just far too much Jar-Jar tomfoolery), TPM is a more honest movie. I feel like Lucas made AOTC to give the fans something to chew on. For example, it's almost like he said, "Oh, you didn't like TPM? Well, I know the fanboys like Boba Fett, so here's Jango Fett! That'll be something you like!" I now feel like AOTC is a totally throwaway movie, especially since so much ACTUAL drama takes place in ROTS. And yes, ROTS is by far my favorite of the PT. I feel like, after waiting since 1983, ROTS was finally the new "Star Wars movie" I'd been waiting for. TPM in hindsight has charm and is a decent movie, but for me Jar Jar is just so incredibly annoying, despite how many little kids liked him back in '99. Maybe it's just because I'm old, I don't know.

 

I just hate that JJ's character "ruined" the movie for so many people. Especially since he's an integral part to it's narrative success.

JJ accomplished EXACTLY what he was supposed to. He was a character that was meant to ensure that NO POINT in the film fell too far tonally. It could never be allowed to feel, on the surface, depressing. That was all meant to be seen in the film's subtext. And JJ made sure the tone was always light and jovial. He was also meant to appease kiddies, because this WAS the "kid's chapter" in many ways. And you know what? Kids love JJ. I'm just sad more people couldn't at least see him for what he accomplished...

TPM is George's strongest picture, conceptually speaking. As far as the tonal and stylistic implications of that film, it is BRILLIANT. George told that movie from a perspective that was absolutely perfect. He couldn't have done it better. He purposely made sure that the entire thing was a celebration. He wanted us to understand that there was a conflict, but, truthfully, he didn't want us to become upset upon first viewing. He more or less just wanted us to stare in awe at the beautiful visuals of the film, see the galaxy in all its regal beauty, to marvel at the light-hearted, good intentioned characters. He wanted a film where we were more focused on rooting for the good guys, as opposed to fearing for them. And he succeeded. That film was full of jubilation from beginning to end. And it's only in the end, when we finish the film, and actually start to think about the film, that its incredibly dark subtext comes into light. I mean, the most evil entity in the galaxy has just been elected its leader, and the ignorant masses, and the film viewers, are CELEBRATING. It's truly the ultimate irony. You see, for the "kid's chapter" Lucas created a picture where he turned the viewing audience into children. Upon first viewing of the film, it's hard to see anything BUT the good. We are totally naive. The Phantom Menace, it isn't just because the characters don't know of Palps, it's because the way George so brilliantly unfolded the narrative, that we, the audience, even knowing of his existence, barely give it a second thought upon our first viewing. It's but a phantom lurking in the back of our mind. THAT is the beauty of the first chapter of Star Wars. I still firmly hold that this is one of the top three of the saga.

 

great, thoughtful post man. i think TPM is of the best quality of the PT. Your also right about Jar Jar. After seeing the movie again, its very somber. All the Jake Lloyd scenes are bittersweet. i think hes pretty good for a child actor.

i cant say how much i loved Qui-Gon after seeing it again. i know its a part of the story, but its a shame he dies and i think a bigger shame that he doesnt reappear as a force ghost to try and help anakin

 

guys,

look i havent watched the deleted scene/bonus stuff on Menace in a grip, so i my not be remembering it right. But I swear GL infers that Qui-gon does manifest himself in AOTC and talks to anakin. Anakin sees this, Yoda just senses it. GL said the scene was scraped because it gave away the "eternal life via the force" plot point, and he wanted to save it for episode 3. he says this on the commentary.

so qui-gon did return as a "force ghost," we just never get to see it. as i said in an earlier post.

 

I'm one of those people who never hated either of The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones. When I first saw TPM, I thought Jar Jar was hilarious, but now I think he's simply weird, not annoying, because I don't hate him.

As to TPM overall, I think Qui-Gon was awesome, and I wish we could have seen his Force ghost in Revenge of the Sith. Other than that I was fascinated with Darth Sidious/Palpatine and his manichinations. After all, he is the Phantom Menace.

Oh, and I never had any problem whatsoever with Jake Lloyd's performance as Anakin. The "yipee" stuff didn't bother me, either. Although he is not the big, strong Jedi he becomes in AOTC and ROTS, I think Lloyd really convinced me that Anakin was a good person. Hayden made Anakin seem moody and arrogant but somehow good at heart before his turn.

 

I just watched it last night, i cant belive its number 6 on my favorite list because it is very good. There were things that could be easily cut out (Jar Jar being farted on and stepping in crap) And the movie wouldnt be any worse off. Also at the end I would of liked to see more gungan Vs droids hand to hand combat like you see in the background while Jar JAr has his foot stuck in a Battle Droid's torso. So its a good movie and with a little change it would be alot better, hope Geroge does something for the SE. I also dont really understand how Anakin could be such a humble sweet person who was a slave then in AOTC hes so whiny and ungrateful.

 

I watched TPM again last night. I agree, it is a much better movie. You can feel the characters more after seeing ROTS. Such as in Anakin's fate scene, when Mace says he will not be trained you can see that look on Anakin's face that you see in ROTS when Mace says that he will not be a Jedi Master.

 

The aspect of the Chosen One in the Phantom Menace just means so much more now, and now seems so logical.

At the time, I thought, "George, you are out of your mind to show a 9-year boy single-handededly, without trying to, destroy a Trade Federation Battleship."

But we understand what Anakin became in RoTS. Just what his destiny was with the Force.

Bascially Padme and Anakin take out the Bad guys.

Too bad Anakin could not confide in her his plans in RoTS, they might have done some good together.

 

For me, TPM was an amazing movie. The amount of material covered in it is truly magnificent. GL fit so much into it (Darth Maul, Blockade, Anakin, Pod Race, Jedi Council, etc.). It was a gutsy move to come out with a story about Darth Vader as a 9 year old boy, to come up with all new characters and to set up a time when the Jedi protected the Republic.

From a box office perspective, it was an amazing story. It didn't saturate the market with a huge release, it was in around 2900 theatres. It made money all summer long. That comes from good Word of Mouth. I think what happened is that movies like LOTR and Matrix came out and it became cool to say that TPM wasn't any good. I'm not talking from fanboys but just from what was hip. That's when having the movie about a 9 year old really hurt.

When AOTC came out, it was in the aftermath of Spider-Man and kinda got lost in the shuffle a little bit. It still made over 300million and performed well. ROTS was the payoff and was THE movie to see this year. I think when looking back, both TPM and AOTC will be viewed as better than they currently are viewed.

It will be interesting when the re-release all 6 movies, as to how much TPM will make in relation to the others. I think it will out-earn all of them; not by alot, but it will do very well.

 

i always thought jar jar was plopped in tpm so lucas could show off his cg effects

Strilo edit: Drive-by bashing adds nothing to the discussion. Post on topic or don't post.

 

Jar Jar was there to show the innocence of some people in the galaxy, to show that not all people are corrupt and evil. He was amongst many politicians and burecrats, but he wasn't corrupt like them. He stayed true to what he believed in.

 

i just thought of somethng else. i think another reason why i like TPM is because theres no Hayden. i really dislike him. whether its the acting or the directing doesnt matter to me. when he opens his mouth, the movies suffer

 

Similar to what someone else mentioned, I remember the first time I saw TPM in the cinema - I thought it was a great movie.....right up until yoda appeared on screen! After being blown away by the effects in the movie, that puppet just seemed really out of place. Ever since then my enjoyment of TPM has suffered, purely because of puppet yoda. I know some people say yoda's more realistic/believeable as a puppet but I think the opposite (this doesn't apply to the OT) - after seeing the other CG creatures interact with the main characters - Jar Jar, Sebulba, the gungans etc. yoda stood out like a sore thumb, as fake, crap looking and pretty much ruined the film, for me. I REALLY hope they replace TPM puppet yoda with a fully CG one, for the PT DVD Boxset, I'd love to be able to watch TPM through, without cringing when yoda appears!

 

...you don't cringe at any of Jar Jar's screentime?

 

How about this:

In ROTS: The padawans that Anakin kills in the Jedi Council chambers are about the same age that he was when he first arrived at the Temple in TPM.

The circle is complete !

 

Tyranus Rules

From a box office perspective, it was an amazing story. It didn't saturate the market with a huge release, it was in around 2900 theatres. It made money all summer long. That comes from good Word of Mouth. I think what happened is that movies like LOTR and Matrix came out and it became cool to say that TPM wasn't any good. I'm not talking from fanboys but just from what was hip. That's when having the movie about a 9 year old really hurt.

Are you kidding? What country are you from? The entire U.S. and media was saturated with advertising, tone poems, teasers, etc., before TPM came out. People started waiting in line in January, for crissakes. It was the first Star Wars movie in 16 years. People took off from work to go stand in line to see it during the workday. Other studios were so intimidated, no other movie opened the same weekend as TPM. Movie stars of summer blockbusters admitted THEY would be standing in line to see TPM rather than their own. THAT's incredible. That did not happen again, not since TPM got so-so reviews from both fans and the critics right off the bat.

Being fans of the 'Matrix' and 'LOTR' and bashing TPM was just an excuse to be a fan of a 'cooler' series than the Star Wars geeks.

 

I watched it again last night after several years of avoiding a revisit, and have to agree it's much better in retrospect. Perhaps our expectations were simply too high in '99, or we just needed the entire PT to gain full perspective, but I really enjoyed seeing it again. Also didn't find Jar Jar to be quite as annoying this time around (tho I still hate the West Indian stereotype of his people as a whole).
Really got creeped out at the end when Palpatine told Ani "I'll be watching your career with great interest, young man".

 

As to what country I'm from, it's the good old USofA. I remember all of the hype and it was incredible. I wasn't trying to say there was no hype. Obviously there was. What I'm saying is that hype alone doesn't make $431 million. If it was all hype and no substance, the movie NEVER would have had the legs it did. It would have opened big and then had big drops. No amount of hype lasts all summer. People saw the movie and liked it enough to see it over and over again. Trying to say otherwise is foolish in my opinion. TPM dominated at the box office because it was an amazing movie that connected with all types of movie goers. People can try all they want to re-write history. Spider-Man was a great movie with a ton of hype also (not TPM hype but hype nontheless). It made $403 million. A great total still @ 30million less than TPM. TPM had better legs than Spider-Man also. Same thing with any of the Matrix sequels or LOTR movies. The best LOTR movie made $54 million LESS than TPM. No way hype alone makes that happen. People really enjoyed the movie.

 

The thing is he didn`t have to be written as an idiot in order to accomplish his part in the movie. I agree, the purpose of his character in the grand scheme was perfect for the plot of the story - alien outcast teams up with Jedi, goes on an adventure, makes friends with the surface dwellers of his world, then becomes a bridge between the two races in order to forge an alliance against invaders who threaten them all. Great idea - perfect. The problem is all in Jar Jar`s personality, which conflicts with my enjoyment of the scenes he`s in.

Look at Chewie, for example. He`s not a completely serious character all the time, but we know he`s not brooding, and overall, we know what he`s all about - co-pilot, mechanic and loyal friend. He`s well-rounded, and when he does funny stuff, it works because, he`s never a jackass. Take away the OT, and you`re left with an individual who has piloting skills, can fix stuff and just might buy you a drink at the bar after a good day`s work.

Ok, what`s Jar Jar all about? Sure, he wants to be friends, but then what? What happens if you take away everything in the Phantom Menace and just have Jar Jar? What are you left with?

By his own admittence - a clumsy individual.
By his own actions - a fool, who`s clumsiness often puts people`s lives at risk, and has bad table manners to boot.

OK - who wants to spend time with Jar Jar?


The way I see it, if you replace him with a not-so-clumsy and expanded character of Captain Tarples, the plot could remain relatively unchanged, easily. Replace Mr.Clumsy with an exiled warrior, Captain Tarples - exiled because he believes the Gungan people and the Naboo would both benefit in an alliance of cooperation by taking a united stance against the increased taxations imposed by the Trade Federation. Boss Nass wants nothin` to do with the Naboo and has Tarples exiled for continued obstinance in this matter. It falls in place with the story in the opening scroll about the TF, and establishes the reason Tarples (or a Tarples-like character) is wandering the surface. And you can still have some gags even....but no fart jokes.

If that`s true, then that sounds like the root of the problem. Generally speaking, a person goes to certain genras of movies for specific reasons. A comedy for laughs. A horror flick to be scared. An adventure flick for a rollercoaster ride. A chick-flick to get touchy-feely, A slasher to get grossed out. A mystery for suspense.

What about a sci-fi or fantasy movie? Why do people go to see these types of films? Moreover, if the intent was to prevent people from being upset - dude, the film has several deaths and a severed body preceeded with a flash of blood in it; can`t get any more adult than that.



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^ That`s "kid" Anakin`s purpose. Jar Jar was not innocent at all. By his own admittence and actions, he`s dangerously clumsy, hence his bannishment.

What did he believe in, specifically?


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I must admit that TPM is much better than I remember.

What strikes me the most after seeing AOTC and ROTS, is that TPM is so tactile in its appearance. Things look so much more real.

AOTC had too much CGI, whereas TPM had, perhaps the right amount, only enough to do the scenes that needed that magic...NOT EVERY SCENE like AOTC.

One can feel Tunisia, Geonosis and Kamino just look absolutely fake.

I have always liked Qui-Gon Jinn. He was a great character then and a better one now.

If it weren't for that blasted Jar-Jar TPM would rank with ROTJ or ROTS.