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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

After re-reading Betrayal I sum up my feelings for Jacen

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Dussan, Aug 15, 2007.

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  1. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

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    Mar 3, 2003
    I am personally against revisionism and beginning to see that I'm a minority of one. Jacen was my favourite character at the end of NJO, and seeing the difference in him in DN was a rude awakening.

    Am I the only one that is saying that DelRey is responsible for Jacen's change because they needed to cook-up a Sith Lord that was really close to home? And if we try and be restrospective about it we're actually messing up a lot of built up continuity before that?
     
  2. saber_death

    saber_death Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Feb 2, 2005
    i'm with you on both of those points, so we're a minorty of at least 2. i especially don't like the whole "born to be a Sith" idea that's starting to show up. it's one thing to say that post-Traitor he was going down a dangerous path in light of where he ended up, but IMO to say he was destined for evil back during YJK or earlier is wrong and makes his fall meaningless.

    to some extent i agree, but i do think alot of his characterization in the NJO can be looked at as leading to the darkside, from his arrogance to his acceptance of the idea that the darkside wasn't real. basically, i think they set up a situation where they could either have Jacen be a great, if not entirely orthodox, Jedi or a Dark Jedi/Sith and either one could have worked logically as an extension of his NJO character.
     
  3. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

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    Mar 3, 2003
    That's what I was hoping after TUF, a wider view of the Force not so black and white.

    The round table conferwence at the end of TUF paperback showed they had rather different ideas.
     
  4. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    You want a view of the Force that's not so black and white for a series whose central conflict is between the Dark and the Light Side?

    I know what you mean and I respect it, but it's sort of central if you know what I mean.

    I don't have my copy, what was there?

    Well for me, I thought Jacen wasn't going to fall because it was pretty obvious to me (and apparently no one else) that Luke Skywalker had clarified that Vergere was wrong and there WAS a Dark Side of the Force. That it WAS evil and it couldn't be used for good because it WAS everything evil in the universe. Not some negative charged power source or other "Gray" thing just everything evil in the cosmos.

    Then DN came and everyone was using Force Lightning Left and Right.
     
  5. LittleZion

    LittleZion Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2006
    The big problem > It's difficult for DR (cause Fans) to have a man who is more powerful than Luke. So Jacen must die and die without redemption because he's a very very bad guy...8-} Whoooa I'm so happy to like Jacen and to have another vision of Star wars ! :)

    Jacen since the end of NJO is powerful, since Darknest he has somes very good skills and another interpretation of the force... different of Luke'interpretation. So he must die... only because he has different point of view and because he's a threat for Luke the suppaaa hero.
     
  6. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    Jacen since the end of NJO is powerful, since Darknest he has somes very good skills and another interpretation of the force... different of Luke'interpretation. So he must die... only because he has different point of view and because he's a threat for Luke the suppaaa hero.

    Except for the part where Luke at the end shows he has more knowledge of the Force than Luke.
     
  7. JediQueenMara

    JediQueenMara Jedi Master star 1

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    Jun 18, 2005
    i just started reading the YJK books and i actually think Jacen's desire to find beautiful creatures and CAGE them is a little weird. and his jokes are lame.

    Tenel Ka was a cool chic tho.. too bad they had to lobotomize her in LOTF
     
  8. MadHeretic

    MadHeretic Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 15, 2003
    Except for the part where Luke at the end shows he has more knowledge of the Force than Luke.

    Than Jacen you mean :p

    Littlezion - it's not strictly Luke's interpretation. It's Lucas's interpretation. Simply, we already know Luke is right, and Jacen or his views are far from a threat to Luke or the true view :)

    As for the excuse that it's because DR/fans can't have a more powerful man than Luke, the same excuse could be used in any given situation, including the opposite scenario. Again, it's the Superman syndrome. If Superman is written as he is supposed to be - most powerful of the heroes, many complain that it's because the fans can't have someone better than him. When he's written like a loser, many complain that it's because the fans can't have him being that good, and so on. In case Luke dies, I could just as easily claim that it's only because DR/some fans.

    Bottom line - Luke is supposed to be this powerful, and his views are supposed to be right, because it all starts with GL. Are we really going to say that the ultimate force user who has fulfilled the ultimate potential, is not the most powerful? It took a long time and a lot of effort for Luke to be what his father could've been. When we deviate from certain central themes, a whole bunch of conflicts start erupting, because the entire EU is founded upon (and maintained by) the link to the core ideas. Once that link is broken, all hell breaks loose.
     
  9. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    I was kinda sold back when Yoda clarified that in 1980 and when Lucas, WEG, WOTC, Bantam, Scholastic and every other source in the known universe tended to back up that interpretation over the years.

    Y'know, ESPECIALLY that Lucas guy... ;)

    But Jacen was set-up for a fall, no doubt, because his way is the right way regardless of what other people think.
     
  10. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    I go back to his arrogance in NJO. His refusal to use the Force and need to "study to get knowledge", yada yada... to me always signified that he wasn't grounded in the simple guiding principle of the Jedi. The Forces uses you, you don't use the Force.
     
  11. Earthknight

    Earthknight Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 3, 2002
    Both Luke and Jacen are too powerful for their own good. Because of that power one of them could easily push around regular people and take over everything( Jacen proved this). Luke makes stupid decisions and causes people to die. Jacen kills people out of paranoia. So for the galaxy to be safe, both must die. Besides Luke is WAYYYY too stupid and Caedus is WAYYY too crazy.
     
  12. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    That or they could just write Luke correctly.
     
  13. Earthknight

    Earthknight Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 3, 2002
    ^Um, him and Jacen are pretty much ruined. So since their characters are ruined, they should get killed off. If Anakin can get killed off for a stupid reason, those two should.
     
  14. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 13, 2001
    You know this is setting up for Luke to declare "no more families for Jedi" again to streamline the NJO into GL's prequel vision. LOTF is one big trainwreck to try to prove that point.

    And post LOTF will be about Jaina abandoning the order, and becoming an Empress! All cause they wouldn't let her marry Zekk.
     
  15. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    That just sounds like you're bitter about Anakin's death, which is irrelevant as to whether or not Luke and Jacen should die.
     
  16. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

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    Mar 3, 2003
    Arrogance? Arrogance you say? I had the impression it was more hesitation. Never did I get the impression in the NJO prior to Traitor that Jacen thought he was much better than anyone else because he didn't use the Force. He had the impression of being sort of inadequate without it, particularly after what happened to Leia in Balance Point. If you may recall in Edge of Victory I, Kyp told him off majorlly.

    And as far as "there is no light or dark side", I was speaking about the Force itself. The Force merely exists, it does not choose sides or even have sides and this philosophy extends far beyond Vergere, Mace Windu and even Luke himself have this view. What matters is how we use it, the Force offers a Jedi a choice, to use it to make himself more poerful or use it to benefit others.


    What is good and evil though are actions and intentions. This is how people become evil, by how they feel and what they do.


     
  17. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    And as far as "there is no light or dark side", I was speaking about the Force itself. The Force merely exists, it does not choose sides or even have sides and this philosophy extends far beyond Vergere, Mace Windu and even Luke himself have this view. What matters is how we use it, the Force offers a Jedi a choice, to use it to make himself more poerful or use it to benefit others.

    I believe Luke's quote was exactly that human evil had created a nightmarish corruption of the Force that was what Dark Siders drew their power from according to TUF.
     
  18. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

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    Mar 3, 2003
    Exactly, Charles, the Force does nort create evil does it has the intention to be dark through actions and intentions.
     
  19. MadHeretic

    MadHeretic Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 15, 2003
    As long as sentient life exists, the force exists, and because of sentient life, the force exists with 2 sides - a good side and an evil side. The force does have an evil side, that which we call the dark side of the force. This was explicitly stated by GL himself :) Luke in TUF provided an excellent description as to why the force has an evil side. Regardless of the why, the fact that it does, means the seduction and twisting is quite real.
     
  20. Dussan

    Dussan Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jul 6, 2007
    Isn't that what Jacen Solo believes? Palpatine as well?

    If that is the case aren't we seeing that he is wrong as hell?

    Cause he is looking mighty corrupted right now. Twisted and evil. His best intentions, being used through the darkside of the Force are coming out all wrong.

     
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