Saga After Vader & Palps, who is the third biggest villain?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Dartht Punk, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 31, 2000
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  2. WriterMan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 3
    I think it really depends on the depiction of these villains more so then their respective amount of appearances.

    In ANH, Tarkin was originally depicted as Vader's superior. He was, in fact, "holding Vader's leash." I suppose that line of Leia's could have multiple interpretations, but the rest of the film supports this idea. Tarkin scolds Vader for choking other officers, and Vader actually listens. If anything, I suppose you could say that Tarkin is the primary antagonist of the original Star Wars.

    However, his prominence doesn't exist outside of the first Star Wars film. I suppose, then, that Jabba the Hutt could be considered the third primary villain, as he is sending people to find and capture Han in the first two films, and combats our heroes in the third.

    Here's how I see the saga in general:

    The Phantom Menace:
    Primary Villain: Sidious
    Secondary Villain: Darth Maul
    Third Villain: Nute Gunray

    Attack of the Clones:
    Primary Villain: Sidious
    Secondary Villain: Count Dooku
    Third Villain: Jango Fett
    Fourth Villain: Nute Gunray

    Revenge of the Sith:
    Primary Villain: Palpatine
    Secondary Villain: Anakin/Darth Vader
    Third Villain: General Grievous
    Fourth Villain: Count Dooku

    A New Hope
    Primary Villain: Grand Moff Tarkin
    Secondary Villain: Darth Vader

    The Empire Strikes Back:
    Primary Villain: Darth Vader
    Secondary Villain: Boba Fett

    Return of the Jedi:
    Primary Villain: The Emperor
    Secondary Villain: Darth Vader
    Third Villain: Jabba the Hutt

    Prequel Trilogy:
    Primary Villain: Palpatine
    Secondary Villain: Count Dooku
    Third Villain: Darth Maul

    Original Trilogy:
    Primary Villain: Darth Vader
    Secondary Villain: Palpatine
    Third Villain: Grand Moff Tarkin

    Saga:
    Primary Villain: Palpatine
    Secondary Villain: Darth Vader
    Third Villain: Tarkin
  3. Prophet 49 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 2014
    star 1
    I too have to argue that Dooku is the third villain in the lineup. While he was a pawn to Sidious (most villains were, including Vader) he was the pawn that set up the board to begin the endgame of the Sith Grand Plan at Palpatine's whim. Remember, he was influential in the ordering of the clone army, he stirs up the Separatist movement which leads to the Clone Wars, he even speaks about the coming "New Order" in the RotS novelization, indicating that he was already contemplating his place in the coming Empire. Despite being depicted in only two live-action films, he was integral in the Clone Wars collection of comics, novels and shows. Someone with that large of an impact on the entire saga and future of the Galaxy makes me think he deserves the #3 spot in the baddie list. I can see the arguments in favor of Tarkin, since he too had a massive impact on galactic history, but Dooku was essential in actually setting the pieces for the rise of the Empire and by extension Palpatine.
    Last edited by Prophet 49, Sep 18, 2014
  4. Meyerm Jedi Padawan

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    Aug 17, 2014
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    I have to say Tarkin is high up there. After that, Grievous.
  5. darklordoftech Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Tarkin for destroying Alderaan.
  6. DanielUK Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 1, 2012
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    If we're including TCW series, it's Maul.
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  7. Darth Nerdling Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 20, 2013
    star 4
    Most evil -- Tarkin and Maul. Tarkin did the one most horrific act, but I'm sure Maul wouldn't have had any qualms about doing the same. Dooku had some honor and the vestiges of scruples leftover. Grievous's cowardice diminishes him.

    Greatest autonomy -- Jabba. He was his own boss. Tarkin and Dooku had some autonomy, but Grievous and Maul just did what they were told.

    Of course, if you include TCW version of Maul, then that greatly changes how he'd rate.
  8. Krueger Force Ghost

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    Aug 9, 2004
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    Probably Count Dooku, although he was a bit of a tragic pawn when all is said and done. Him or Tarkin.
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  9. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

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    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    I would actually rank the antagonists (I will not call them 'villans') thus:

    Sidious
    Leia
    Tarkin
    Vader

    Sidious played everyone.

    Alderaan wouldn't have happened but for Leia's lie

    Tarkin destroyed a world to make a statement and to combat his own fears due to her lie

    Vader is merely a bull dog
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  10. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Because Leia lied, she is a villain? o_O seriously?
    Tarkin didn't need to blow up the planet but did it anyway............................
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  11. Gen Rendar Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2014
    star 1
    Depends on rather it is just within the movies, the (former) EU or within the mythology of the Universe?

    From the Star wars universe as a whole, I would say:
    Darth Ruin - Founded the Sith(according to Lucas prequel notes, although he is never mentioned in the films)
    Darth Bane - Again, not mentioned in the movies that I remember, but set up the rule of two.
    Darth Plagueis - Could arguably be the person most responsible for setting in motion all the horrible things that happen throughout the series.

    I assume from the EU fans perceptive it would probably have to be Thrawn.

    From the movies, I would say:
    The Storm Troopers
    The Death Star
    (if those count)
    From that point, I don't really think there is anyone that qualifies as a villain in any way comparable to Vader and Sidious.
    Darth Maul has an awesome design and duel, and Dooku is probably the most logical choice, but a major aspect of both characters, is the fact they are meant to be temporary until Vader arrives, They are never given a screen presents anywhere close to Vader in tone or execution.

    Even if you combine Jango and Boba Fett to be part of the same group, they still only give off the impression of being secondary villains.

    That leaves Jabba the hutt as the only major villain character that is really given a status anywhere close to Vader in terms of presentation. So if we can't count the things like Storm Troopers or Plagueis, I would say Jabba.

    However, this will probably all change once Episode VII comes out.
    Last edited by Gen Rendar, Sep 19, 2014
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  12. ObiAlKenobi Jedi Knight

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    Mar 10, 2012
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    Grand Moff Tarkin.

    The guy orders the destruction of an entire planet like he's ordering his morning coffee. Ruthless.
    Last edited by ObiAlKenobi, Sep 20, 2014
  13. Chancellor Yoda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2014
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    To be honest , I'll go with Tarkin. For one he Vader took orders from him which only the Emperor ever really could do, and destroyed a planet without blinking. Sure you don't see him as much as Dooku, but he honestly seemed more threatening to me at least.
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  14. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Knight

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    May 12, 2013
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    I'm going to say Tarkin as well.
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  15. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

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    Jun 8, 2006
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    FS: He did it because she lied. So, yes she had part in it. The Rebels aren't clean in SW, no one is. Never said he did, they are both wrong and I don't scale like many and I am absolutely serious.
    Last edited by Cushing's Admirer, Sep 20, 2014
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  16. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Because she lied, she deserves to see her planet destroyed?
    And he destroyed it before he knew she lied.
    Last edited by Force Smuggler, Sep 20, 2014
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  17. EntechednReformatted Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2009
    star 2
    No. Tarkin didn't know Leia was lying when he gave the order. Think of how it would have played out if she'd told the truth.

    "Yavin IV. They're on Yavin IV."
    "There, you see Lord Vader? She can be reasonable. You may fire when ready."
    "What?!"
    "Yavin is too remote to make an effective demonstration, but don't worry. We will deal with your rebel friends soon enough."

    Alderaan was doomed no matter what Leia said. The only way she maybe could have saved Alderaan would have been by betraying the rebellion prior to Tarkin dreaming up his alternative form of persuasion. If she'd cracked under torture, or just spilled the beans immediately when her ship was captured, Alderaan maybe wouldn't have been destroyed. Heck, blame Bail for sending her on that mission in the first place.

    On the other hand, Tarkin always wanted to demonstrate the power of the Death Star, and he wasn't going to settle for some backwater planet on the fringe. Even if Leia just confessed right away, there was always the chance Tarkin would have used her and her father's involvement with the rebellion as an excuse to destroy Alderaan anyway. Once Leia was captured, the fate of her world was ultimately out of her hands.

    Don't blame the victim.
  18. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    Tarkin was shocked after the message remember?
    Vader wasn't.
  19. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

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    Apr 26, 2009
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    QFT:

    As Tarkin himself put it, Dantooine was "too remote for an effective demonstration", so he blew up Alderaan regardless. Had absolutely nothing to do with what Leia said, he picked Alderaan as the best way of forcing her into giving up the location and then blew it up to demonstrate the power of the Death Star once she did.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Sep 21, 2014
  20. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

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    May 21, 2008
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    [IMG]

    And I will enjoy reading his novel
  21. Allana_Rey Jedi Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    I'm honestly going to go with Boba Fett.
  22. SpecterSquadronLeader Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2014
    When you have no force abilities of your own, yet you give commands to a Sith Lord and he actually OBEYS them.. That's power.
    I vote Tarkin.
  23. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 5
    Tarkin's a "better villain", and the performance was note-perfect, but in-universe, Dooku seems to be #3. He's a Sith Lord, and the equivalent of Vader during the Clone Wars. Tarkin's really just an up-jumped governor with a very big gun.
  24. Darth_Pevra Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 6
    In the old EU at least, he was far more than that. He was one who greatly influenced the direction the Empire was taking with his Tarkin doctrine of rule through fear. His deeds shaped the entire galaxy.

    This is a part of the EU that I hope is kept.
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  25. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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