CT After watching Episode IV for the first time again in quite a while I tend to wonder

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by darkchrono, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    I tend to wonder what story details were already planned out already at that point for the entire six movies and what details were not. For instance the looks that Obi Wan makes when he first sees R2 and 3PO (like he recognizes them) and also the expression he gives when Luke asks him what happened to his father.

    I have heard that Episode 4 was made mainly to be a standalone movie and the other two movies in the same trilogy had not yet been completely formed yet at that point and the prequel movie storylines were nothing more then a couple sketches on paper. But looking at some of the subtle expressions some of the actors made in the very first movie makes me wonder if the entire six movies weren't already planned out in pretty great detail already at that point.

    Or is most of those deals that we view as hints now nothing more than fans making more of it than was ever initially intended at the time A New Hope was made.
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  2. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    They weren't planned at all. Those "hints" are just lucky acting choices that work well with the finished product. But when the first movie was made, Luke's father was Luke's father, not Vader, and Obi-Wan had never owned a droid, nor he knew R2 or 3PD.
  3. King Terak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2012
    star 1
    Back then there was no Episode IV: A New Hope either.
  4. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    If ANH was supposed to be a stand alone movie, why did Vader's fate end in a vague manner?
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  5. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Because it was meant to be a homage to the old serials, just an episode of the eternal conflict between good and evil, freedom fighters againts a totalitarian Empire. We don't see the beginning of the conlict, nor we see the ending of it, just a satisfying climax with the victory of the heroes, and the promise that the fight will go on...
    The struggle between the rebels and the empire was meant to be the backdrop of this adventures, and potentially more adventures (novels or movies), but those follow-ups, if they were made, wouldn't necessarily be part of the same story. Just more adventures against the Empire. Vader being the visual icon of the evilness of the regime, he would live on to fight another day.
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  6. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    This is a good answer . . . if audiences had known that Lucas had planned to do a sequel . . . or if Lucas had known himself.
  7. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I think there's a Lucas quote (maybe on the Ep. 4 commentary track) that the point of "Star Wars" is exactly like an old sci-fi serial. As an audience member, you just wander into the middle of a serial, have the adventure start right in the middle of the action, scrolling intro text, there is a ton of implied history (these would have been references to previous installments of the serial that the audience would never see, but it fits in the tone of what those serial movies are), and there is an unresolved ending (like Vader's fate) that imply the story would keep going. But, in it's initial concept, there wouldn't be any more. This was just Lucas' way of chasing his muse, sci-fi adventure serials, and "Star Wars" would have just been a single shot, leaving the audience like, "Wow, what the hell was that?!" When the film went on to become the highest grossing movie of all time, those plans changed a bit. But in it's original concept, "Star Wars" is just that, right in the middle of a serial, you have no idea what's going on, and you're out.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Jan 8, 2013
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  8. darth.ender Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2012
    star 1
    Lucas left ANH open-ended because he actually wanted to do a sequel, but also wanted to leave it as a suitable standalone if necessary. He had Alan Dean Foster (the ghostwriter for Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker) write a sequel, which you know as Splinter of the Mind's Eye. If Star Wars bombed, no sequel would follow. If it was mildly successful, George hoped Splinter could be made into a low budget sequel. But Star Wars soared! He then chose to plan for a much bigger sequel.
  9. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    It wasn't really all that open ended. I don't really see star wars episode four ANH as being really all that open ended. But it was very sentimentally emotionless, unlike this stuff right over here..........
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Lord Tyrannus, Jan 8, 2013
  10. darth.ender Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2012
    star 1
    Did you read the last few posts? Vader survived. Furthermore, a love triangle without resolution was set up. Honestly, I think it was a well designed film in that if it never had a sequel, it would still be a satisfying movie in its own right without any further stories, but it also led quite well into its sequels.
  11. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I thought he originally wanted to do an actual Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers film, but those franchises were taken so he made up his own. Is there a grain of truth to that? STAR WARS is definitely an homage to scifi serials anyway.
  12. darkchrono Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    Yep I always viewed the Vader situation at the end as just Lucas leaving the door open for any potential movies in the future. You see stuff like that in movies all the time and some get sequels and some don't.

    I guess all those hints that we see now was just good acting on Alec's part.
  13. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Hindsight bias, possibly. You could interpret those shots as Ben being such a kindly old man that he's even nice to droids.
  14. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Precisely. GL said as much to Alan Dean Foster in 1975 - "Vader runs off in the end, shaking his fist: 'I'll get you yet!'"
  15. Aizakku Rorensu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2013
    star 1
    I always noticed that "pregnant pause," too. That, and Uncle Ben saying "that's what I'm afraid of" after Aunt Beru said that Luke just isn't a farmer and that he had too much of his father in him.

    Yeah, there are those that say that Lucas didn't have it planned all along that Vader was Luke's father. But I don't know, those two instances can easily be interpreted that he did, if you ask me.
  16. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    I've always wondered how those stolen Death Star plans saved Leia's people and, moreover, restored freedom to the galaxy, like the opening crawl promised. [face_plain]
  17. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    The plans did save the Rebellion. Not Leia's planet as such, but without the plans the Death Star would've eventually found Yavin Four and blown it up. It also restored some freedom to the galaxy as the Empire believed (let's assume with some accuracy) that once the Death Star was operational nobody would dare try to challenge the Empire - the Rebellion would be starved of support and the Empire's grip would become unbreakable. Two scenes from the film played that out: the Tarkin meeting and then Tarkin's interrogation of Leia.

    Random Imperial Dude whose name I can't remember: It's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control, without the bureaucracy?
    Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line - fear of this battle station.
    ...
    Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
    Tarkin: Not after we've demonstrated the power of this station.

    The point, I guess, was that had the Death Star remained in existence the Empire would have been seen as completely unchallengeable. When it was destroyed, it proved the regime was vulnerable. It restored some freedom in that respect.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jan 14, 2013
  18. ShanOffirin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 1
    That guy you can't remember was General Tagge.
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