Lit Aftermath: Empire's End (book 3) by Chuck Wendig

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. vncredleader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    Wait you hate Mon Mothma? i never would have guessed. Not like you bring it up every single day!! Do you have a dartboard with her face on it? Come on admit it.
  2. Ewoklord Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2014
    star 1
    One of these days someone should write a Mothma/Pellaeon shipfic just for his benefit.
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  3. vncredleader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    Fanfic writers of the forum and Pellaeon fans should get on that.......... @Jid123Sheeve ........I'm waiting.
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  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    No... a story of how Mon Mothma was the Emperor's true, unrequited love for whom he forever pined for... he did it all for her. :)
  5. vncredleader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    I am loving the direction this thread is taking. =D=
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  6. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    The sign of a diseased mind.
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  7. SWpants Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2004
    star 5
    I'm dragging it back, I guess.

    Chapter 18
    • It is humorous to see Jom hung over and Sinjir sober.
    • "She did you, after all." - Sinjir ...Really? That's a bit crass.

    Chapter 19
    • I find it interesting that Wartol voted to attack the Empire at Jakku, though I’m not surprised he wants the entire debacle with them to end. It’s nice that there’s a revote; that allows for a better setup to the battle.
    • It’s almost humorous: Mon Mothma is accustomed to being politically correct and aware around people, and Wartol is used to campaigning. So they can’t help but act in such a way with each other.
    • I did NOT like the phrase “his jaw bisects.” Bah. However, I did love the line: “History lessons are more effective when they’re interesting.”
    • I did also like learning some more of Wartol’s history.

    Chapter 20
    • Nakadia sounds like a beautiful place. I love it as a contrast to Coruscant. However, it doesn’t sound right for the new Senate seat. First, why would that be temporary? It can’t be a good idea to be constantly moving the Senate around. Secondly, it’s a world of little crime and drama. Well, now they’ve got to go and ruin it by putting politicians—some of THE MOST CORRUPT AND DRAMATIC PEOPLE THERE ARE—on the planet for at least one season/year/whatever you want to call it. Third, it’s so opposite of Coruscant (droids are looked down upon, only biologicals (I found it quite interesting that word was used over sentients) are allowed on the streets, and it’s agricultural) that I’m sure many Senators will be uncomfortable there.
    • I love that it’s an agricultural world. Think the Jedi teens went there for AgriCorps? ;)
    • Sweet. Hell. Wendig: SHUT. UP. Okay, we BLOODY GET IT. Sinjir misses Condor, moans and groans. There’s an actual story going on so get them back together or leave it be. Also, yes, politics are annoying. I find you more annoying. I don’t need minutes on end about how irritating these characters find politics. I GET IT. Move. Bloody. Along.

    Interlude: Coruscant

    • Why are some of the interludes longer than some of the real chapters? That’s weird and a bit irritating.
    • I cackled at the description of Rax being a gas bladder.
    • Coruscant is reminiscent of inner-city riots. *shudders*
    • I like that this is from Mas Amedda’s point of view. He’s one who has seen the rise and fall of the Empire, knows what the TRUE Empire is. He sees Rax as a fake, someone trying to mimic Palpatine and yet failing at it. I’m not a fan of Amedda, but this was one good interlude. It helps set my mind on the fact that Rax is pretty much a wannabe—though a wannabe with real power.
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  8. vncredleader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    Wendig in a nutshell. He has such a bad habit of giving you the same info over and over and over. It is why these main leads become frustrating quickly. Half the book is "did you know I hate politics" and "I am a whiny teen!!!!!" over and over.
  9. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Wasn't Gary Oldman in that?
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  10. SensationalSean Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2014
    star 3
    I feel like I was meant to love Sinjir way more than I did - the snark was meant to make him cool. He's fine, but I wasn't rooting for him the way I was for Mon Mothma or Sloane.

    ALSO, I did a Q&A with Wendig. He talks about some cool stuff!
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  11. SWpants Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2004
    star 5
    I feel the same way about Sinjir, @SensationalSean. I really liked him in the first two books, but he's wearing on me in this third one.

    Chapter 21
    • I can’t stand Hux, but it’s still nice to see his character being used. He’s a harsh and scary man. I’m glad that comes out here.
    • Norra trying to justify her desired actions against Sloane was terrifying. “I’m a good person, even if I do kill her.” But she’s unarmed; it’s not a fight like it was in the previous book, and I am so glad Norra didn’t go through with it. You can’t justify evil actions in that way. Wendig may or may not have done this purposely, but he was able to perfectly portray just how a person turns evil, lets the devil in, justifies so many wrongs in order to “do right.” [later: GRRR never mind. Well, at least seeing her husband was enough to jar her back to reality].
    • I do agree with Norra though that trying to focus on too many things (i.e.: figure out what the Empire is doing on Jakku + getting Sloane + whatever) can only make things go wrong. If they learn of something, great, but setting out to do multiple missions can only put them in danger.
    • Adumar!
    • I really like seeing Sloane straighten herself out and refocus the determination to take the Empire back.
    • Chapter 22 could have easily been a part of this chapter.

    Chapter 23

    • Hm. Another issue with Thompson: I could barely understand Frong.
    • For being Black Sun, they sure were slow in realizing Condor had his comm open.
    • Oh my goodness. Hearing what Sinjir (and others) had to go through to become a loyalty officer is devastating. My heart breaks and I want to break down and sob. And run far away from Uddra.
    • Oh finally, Condor is okay and he and Sinjir are back together, huzzah.
    • I kind of feel like chapter 24 (huzzah the vote passed) could have been a part of this chapter too. *sighs*
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  12. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    All I can hear are the suppressed sexual undertones.

    You two are perfect for each other​

    sent from my Moto X-Wing
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  13. Revanfan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 6
    I finished to book last night! It was excellent–though, as some have said, I'm not sure it was as good as Life Debt. It was very good, though.

    The Good:
    -Sloane and Norra. Absolutely terrific characters and I'm glad we followed them so closely in this book. It was really great how they developed in somewhat unexpected ways. And they were both really similar: Norra obsessed with revenge on Sloane, Sloane obsessed with revenge on Rax.
    -Rax. What a fantastic villain! Every time I thought I got him a whole new element shone through. By the time we got to the point where it revealed he thought Palpatine was a madman and the Force was basically hocus pocus, I had no idea what to even believe about him anymore. It was great!
    -Armitage Hux. Man, I feel bad for this kid–but at the same time, dang, he's already a complete psychopath. Gets put in charge and the first thing he does is have one kid assault another? Brutal, man.
    -I didn't notice that possible Phasma cameo that was mentioned earlier in the thread but now that I've seen it mentioned I totally believe that was her.
    -Jas Emari was a fantastic character.
    -MR. BONES. His brief HK-47 glitch was so hilarious. (But see more thoughts on this under "The Weird.")
    -Mercurial Swift was a cool tertiary antagonist; upgraded from an interlude character in book 1 to a minor character in book 2 and now even more important. Question: did he die when he fell out of the ship? I know he has a jetpack so it seems likely he survived, but who knows? Has Chuck commented on this?
    -I enjoyed Sinjir's arc of becoming "respectable."
    -Brentin, too, was a great character, albeit one without much development. His sacrifice–totally saw it coming, but still effective. I'm even more impressed because he never had a true reconciliation with Norra, which would've been sort of cliché. She has to live with the fact that he died while she was still unsure if he was himself or not.
    -The Battle of Jakku itself. Oh man. So good.
    -Parental Han.
    -Most of the interludes (especially Jar Jar and the Tatooine one).

    The Bad:
    -MR. BONES SHOULD NOT HAVE DIED OKAY? NOT OKAY.
    -The politics were handled well but I felt that sometimes the scenes involving politics dragged on. Like, a lot. Maybe it was just my anticipation for the Battle of Jakku that made me impatient to get through those scenes.
    -I feel like Jom was underused but that may have been intentional, given his end. (See more thoughts on this under "The Weird.")
    -I wish there would've been more about Jakku, as far as the battle itself. We didn't see any of the infantry fighting, let alone anything from Wedge's point of view. Speaking of...
    -I was so looking forward to Wedge in this book. I'm so excited he didn't die, but I also feel he was underused. I had heard that he made a good showing at the Battle of Jakku, but from what I remember, I don't think I read about him shooting down even one TIE. I'm sure he did, but we didn't get to see it, and that disappointed me a bit.

    The Weird:
    -Jom's death felt tacked on. In retrospect, I like the way it was revealed because it was a gut-punch, but I don't know. I'm conflicted. Like, he was barely in the book, and then he gets on a ship to Jakku...and then the whole battle goes by and he's never mentioned once. It felt sort of mishandled to me. But it was also a very fitting end for a commando who's been portrayed as pretty over-the-top the whole series (Flying straight at a rocket on your jetpack just to save your U-Wing? Okay, I'll buy it from the guy who fought a whole squad of stormtroopers while his leg was broken–using a barn wall).
    -The last (I think?) interlude with that pirate captain. It was really odd and I felt like it killed some of the momentum that was going at that point. I know that character was in the second book, and I don't mind the reappearance, but it felt like it was at an odd time.
    -While I did like the HK-47 moment Bones had, it felt really sudden and random. If anything, I would've liked that glitch to start as soon as he rebuilt himself to rescue Norra and stop only when Temmin arrived on Jakku (maybe his systems realigning because they detected his master, or something), so we got a bit more of that. As one line, it was really bizarre and added nothing except for a subtle wink-wink nod-nod at the fact that Wendig wanted to use HK-47 in book 1.
    -I feel like there's an unresolved plot with who was hired to kill Mon Mothma. It felt like it was going to be important and then Mothma said "But no, Mas Amedda's here to sign a peace treaty." Which, admittedly, is more important, but I still want to know.

    Overall it was a very good book, like I said. Some things I definitely would've done differently if I'd written it–but hey, I didn't write it, and that's okay. This was a good way to portray the battle of Jakku (though I do hope one day we get a bit more of a detailed look at the ground battle, at least). Brentin, Jom, and Rax got fitting ends (but not Mr. Bones, okay, I'm still bitter). Sloane being responsible for the start of the First Order is definitely unexpected, but I can see it going something like the First Order being steadily more corrupted after Sloane dies (assuming she's dead), especially once Snoke steps in. So: good book, few odd points, but overall I'm very pleased. Plus, as I said, I got a signed copy, so even better.
  14. SWpants Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2004
    star 5
    @Revanfan1: It's creepy to see just how horrible the Huxes were since pretty much the start.


    Interlude: Devaron
    • The way the Force is described here is almost poetic. And we can really see how the Dark Side breeds jealousy.
    • Remi and Kiza seem familiar to me. *looks up on the Wook* Oh wow, they were in “Life Debt.” I CANNOT believe I remember anything about side characters from that book.
    • The word ‘twain’ sounded strange here, since such old-fashioned words aren’t used often.

    Chapter 25
    • “My son is alive.” – That is a very deep and very impactful line. <3
    • I agree that it’s weird for Han and Leia—and their cohorts—to not be at Jakku.
    • The constant “War is coming” didn’t irritate me like I expected it to. No, instead, it did what it was supposed to—set the tone for what was coming next.
    • It was nice that Jom actually got a pretty good chunk of a chapter here. When he popped up earlier, I completely forgot who he was for a moment (seriously, how did I remember Remi and Kiza but not Jom)!?
    • Temmin wants to go off and do his own thing with Wedge? /shocking. I’d expect nothing less, seeing as there have been constant unauthorized side missions that have ended up well and therefore leading to people being congratulated. It’s no wonder that he wants it to be the norm. It’s annoying, don’t get me wrong, but not surprising. HOWEVER, this is the second or third time THIS book that Temmin has thrown in Wedge’s face the fact that he “doesn’t care” about Norra or about people.

      I have honestly rolled my eyes so much during this portion my head is starting to hurt. I might punch Temmin in the face.Shut. The hell. Up. I can’t believe you’re whining about being an adult and then guilt-tripping someone who is doing his damn job. The fact that Wedge gave in makes me more frustrated. I agree that doing the right thing does not always mean following the rules, but Wedge knows better. HOW ABOUT YOU ASK?! Ever think of that? Opening your damn mouths and saying, “hey, we need all hands, and this is what I’ve witnessed this kid (and Temmin, in their eyes you’re a kid, shut the kriff up) doing, and here is how he’s done in the sims. Just, you know, an idea. I’m flipping pissed at this scene. Pissed at Wedge and Temmin and Wendig. Flipping poorly produced, poorly written.
    And, in truth, I just want to be done. I want to put this book down and walk away forever from that scene. (I’m dramatic about my books). I care nothing about any of the characters at this point. Maybe they’ll all blow up and die.

    Chapter 26

    • Ooph, really can see the development of the FO here.
    • Rax’s speech was chilling and perfect for his character. It is sad to see the renewal of anti-non-human racism and hatred.
    • Baaahhhh. I’m glad I’m listening to the audio; I just caught a glimpse of a parenthetical in the book.
    • Very, very interesting to see Slone begin to realize how “her” Empire was not what it seemed. Her doubt is fantastic
    • The battle has begun!
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  15. vncredleader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    Yeah that scene pissed me off big time. Not only is Temmin the biggest brat ever, but Wedge gives in. I would have loved if one of these off the book missions went wrong and everyone just died. Maybe years later Snap will do that and get killed in TLJ. He deserves to die even 30 years down the line just for how much of a jerk he is here.
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  16. Contessa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2013
    star 3
    It's a little heavy-handed though. I mean, Hux Jr is one of the worst things about TFA, but I could've really done without seeing just how EVIL he was as a little kid. Seems like a wasted opportunity to show how somebody actually *grows* into a raging space!nazi. But I guess he started out as a dial-to-eleven Imperial parody character, so I guess I can't really fault Wendig for going the extra mile.
    Mia Mesharad likes this.
  17. Counter Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2017
    star 1
    Could not agree more with you about the Wedge scene. It was so poorly done and completely unbelievable that a teenage brat could guilt trip a guy who had survived two Death Star runs, the Battle of Hoth, and blew up the Second Death Star. First off, Wedge is a hero of the Rebellion and should not need the prodding of a teenager to go do the right thing. Secondly, Wedge is a hero of the Rebellion and should not need the prodding of a teenager to go do the right thing.

    But I repeat myself.

    I was not a fan of this trilogy (made that clear earlier). And a big reason for that (outside of the writing style) is my belief that Mr. Wendig simply doesn't get the feel of Star Wars or understand the characters very well.
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  18. Revanfan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 6

    I didn't exactly see him as EVIL, though. He was a terrified, broken kid whose father treated him like crap and whose peers would literally have loved to kill him. So when he was given an inkling of power, the first thing he did was retaliate. Is that wrong? Absolutely. Will it develop into full-blown evil? Obviously, given TFA. But I don't think little Armitage is the evil fascist we see in TFA yet. He's just a scared kid who's been given a means to defend himself for the first time in his entire life, but he uses that weapon not to defend himself, but to retaliate on those who scare him. He's a scared kid acting on those fears. Eerie, disturbing, but not evil. Yet.
  19. Fin McCool Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2015
    star 1
    Best part of the book, IMHO.
  20. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I realized Rae Sloane was genuinely insane or at least operating on a kind of bizarre universe different from the rest of us when she made her "deal" with Armitage like he was an adult. The idea of him being a child or the others being children versus smaller soldiers or soldiers in training never occurs to her even in the abstract. She's thoroughly Imperial from the top to bottom.
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  21. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10

    Nothing about either Hux the elder or Hux the younger is remotely Imperial. They're dishonorable thugs.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
  22. vncredleader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    Right cause destroying an entire planet and enslaving other races to build your weapons is SO honorable.:rolleyes:
    [IMG]
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  23. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    I don't recall saying that.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
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  24. vncredleader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2016
    star 4
    So then what makes the Hux's dishonorable thugs who are not remotely Imperial? They are just as dishonorable as normal Imps, just with Armitage having a much cooler coat than any Imp uniform.
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  25. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Perhaps we can start with his cowardly sneak attack and end with his cowardly retreat? And his coat is ridiculous, and he wears it like a child wearing his daddy's oversized coat. Wearing a coat over his shoulders, really? And let's not even discuss the monstrosity of wearing giant pens on the front of ones uniform, or wearing giant novelty shirt collars. They all look like children getting photos taken at Sears.

    Imperial officers had coats in Rogue One, and they were excellently tailored.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Mar 20, 2017
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