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PT Aftermath of the Yoda/Sidious fight ...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by CLee, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. CLee

    CLee Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jun 18, 2017
    Why didn't Yoda then just team up with Obi-Wan to fight Sidious? Given how close he came to defeating Sidious on his own that seems a logical decision and next step.

    Did they think that Yoda barely escaping and Anakin surviving suggested that the Force wasn't with them at the time? That Vader or the Empire overall would provide Sidious with too much security for them to attack? Or that Yoda and Obi-Wan were most valuable as teachers to Luke and it would be too dangerous to risk losing one or both of them before they taught him?
     
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  2. Mandalorian Riddler

    Mandalorian Riddler Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 27, 2018
    I think that Obi-Wan needed to deal with Anakin, I kinda feel like fair enough Yoda could've gone in with someone but.. likewise Anakin was a threat and Obi-wan saw the maybe opportunity that he would have to locate Anakin so he took it.
     
  3. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 10, 2011
    Yoda didn't come close. He knocked Sidious back a little bit with the dark side, which only served to excite Sidious and leave him gleeful and cackling. Meanwhile, Yoda was thrown several stories to the ground and was obviously completely drained, in more ways than one. I'm not sure where this idea that Yoda almost beat Sidious comes from. It's very clear what the outcome was and why Yoda had to leave.
     
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  4. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    He tried and failed. The Dark side wasn't going to get weaker from then on but stronger and if the prophecy is correct then the Chosen One will destroy the Sith so at that point it was the children that were going to do that and so their roles were to protect them until the time was right.

    Anything else at that point would be folly.
     
  5. Torib

    Torib Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jan 27, 2016
    Also it's probably not realistic to assume that they would automatically be able to get a rematch with Sidious anyway. That is, I imagine security would have been tightened after Yoda was able to sneak in (and out) the first time. And even being present on Coruscant would probably be a fairly risky prospect for a pair of wanted fugitives.

    Aside from those considerations, I think Yoda also recognized that the tide of history or even the force itself was against them: Sidious's new Galactic Empire was popular enough, it seems, to sustain itself for a time. Better to wait until that tide had reversed (as it inevitably would). Spending their lives before then would have accomplished nothing.
     
  6. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 24, 2005
    When we next see Sidious, he’s surrounded by Clone Troopers. Suffice to say, the entire building was already on lockdown and swarming with troopers; hardly a place Yoda and Obi-Wan combined would be able to siege after just fighting their respective duels.
     
  7. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 19, 2016
    I honestly don't think Obi-Wan would have lasted any longer than Agen Kolar against Sidious. (Kit Fisto at the most).
    Kenobi is tough, but he's not quite top tier.

    Maybe they could have teamed up against Vader, but as shown in the Film Sidous sensed when Vader was in danger and would have been there as fast as he could. Then things would be even more unpredictable, having to deal with both Sith at once.
    I'm inclined to think retreat was their best interest. Since their original plan failed, that is keep Master and apprentice separated, Yoda takes on Palpatine, Obi-Wan takes on his former apprentice. It is easy to believe nothing else they did at that point would have worked.
    Their was a reasonable chance based on what they both knew at the time, that their original plan might have succeeded. Heck, even the Emperor wasn't sure he could beat Yoda (He did try to flee after all). Since Anakin was Obi-Wans former apprentice, it also stood to reason Kenobi had the best chance against him. Knowing his strengths and weaknesses, surely having sparred numerous times before. When that failed, their options became limited.

    And those are just some of the reasons why going at together, either before or after wouldn't have worked.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  8. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 9, 2001
    I agree, once Yoda fell down to the bottom of the senate the chance was over. It's not like he was no match for Palpatine, the two were basically even, but it's pretty hard to deal with the Emperor when his soldiers are also around. In such a duel you can't afford any distractions, and the clones definately would have been one. You can sneak in on Palpatine once, but if you fail, the place will crawl with troopers who are aware of the threat, which prevents a second chance.
     
  9. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 5, 2006
    Yoda got owned and rightly chose discretion as the better part of valor. Obi-wan being part of the fracas would not have turned the tables based upon how many masters the Emperor dropped in seconds. That was pretty much their one opportunity as pointed out above. From there they would have not been able to get close to him for a round II.
     
  10. bizzbizz

    bizzbizz Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 16, 2015
    yoda knew he wasn't strong enough to defeat the emperor so retreated to be there for the one who would be.
     
  11. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2013
    Yoda was never close to defeat Sidious. Which is why he understood that he can't defeat him, he went into exile and gave up on fighting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  12. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Wether he was close to defeat him or not is beside the point. Had the two of them gone to one of the Sith, the other would prepare and protect himself, which would make their plan of destroying the Sith virtually impossible to accomplish. They had to tackle both of them at the same time. That said, only two Jedi are in the same league as Sidious and able to face him: Yoda first and foremost, and then Mace.
     
  13. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 25, 2003
    This. I think they were both aware that as most of the Jedi had been killed off, they had very little support-whereas Sidious had all the clones with him now, not to mention other security forces. I'm sure they knew they had this short window of opportunity-and kind of a pass or fail moment. And if that failed, they simply would've had to regroup and bide their time till things got to the point where they could legitimately and safely fight back.
     
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  14. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
    I concur. Mace had Palpatine at the end of a lightsaber and being an honourable Jedi again offered the Sith Lord one last chance to surrender. If not for Anakin's betrayal then he would have succeeded in ridding the galaxy of the Sith menace.

    As for Yoda, I thought again Yoda came very close. It's when Sidious started the unsportsmanlike move of throwing objects at Yoda and keeping far away, that Yoda struggled. But yet again he managed to get close and even hold off Sidious' incredible barrage of lightning. I felt it was a stalemate at that point.

    I believe Yoda was simply unlucky when the two were blasted back by the shockwave. Palpatine fortunately had a railing to hold onto otherwise he too would have fallen and injured himself. Yoda had no railing and fell. Having also lost his lightsaber, and the fact that Imperial Troopers were en route, made his job harder to achieve victory.

    I think the last point is key. Mas Amedda had gone for Troopers who were on their way. Yoda might struggle to take on Palpatine plus having to defend himself against Troopers at the same time. Palpatine clearly was scared of Yoda. Yoda literally says "If so powerful are you, why leave?" So Palpatine clearly tried to leave if he could.
     
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  15. Rigon Quinn

    Rigon Quinn Jedi Youngling

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    Feb 25, 2018
    Just think about this. . .
    Anakin was the ¨CHOSEN ONE¨. If he had turned to the dark side, then that was the biggest threat to the galaxy. Obi-Wan and Yoda both knew that Anakin posed a big threat. That is why Yoda couldn't have Obi-Wan help him fight Palpatine. Also, I do think that in the last second, Yoda was overpowering Sidious. Just because of his weight and his size, he flew back even farther, making him fall. The fall had weakened him and he realized that he could never win against Sidious and that risking his life over such a small chance wouldn't help him. During that time, he also realized that Anakin's heir would be the one to defeat Sidious and that he was more valuable training whoever Anakin's heir was (who eventually turned out to be his son ¨Luke¨). Finally, Sidious knew Yoda's power, however, Yoda didn't know Sidious. That could've posed a great threat. So, really, the chance of Yoda winning was small and he was wise enough to know that he couldn't.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  16. Rigon Quinn

    Rigon Quinn Jedi Youngling

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    Feb 25, 2018
    and maybe after that, Dooku. He used Makashi which was also pretty powerful, he was probably just as powerful as Mace Windu, maybe even more.
     
  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    The way I always saw the fuel was that to was a losing stalemate for Yoda.

    Palpatine got the better of him and Yoda was forced to withdraw.

    Obi Wan likely would have been killed if he participated.
     
  18. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 30, 2017
    The most powerful and important "force power" that the Jedi (and any force user) possessed was the power of divination, the ability to see the branching possibilities of the future and to navigate them to their advantage. The main reason Darth Sidious was able overthrow the Old Republic was that his power of divination was stronger than the Jedi Council's.
    When Yoda decided that he should challenge Sidious and Obi-Wan should challenge Vader, he was using divination to the best of his ability, and in a sense he was successful. Vader was permanently crippled by his duel with Obi-Wan which set up his eventual duel with Luke and then his betrayal of Sidious. If you buy into this interpretation, then Yoda's call was the right one, even if it took awhile to play out.
     
  19. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    I've always wondered how it would have gone if Mace and Yoda had confronted Sidious together. Alone, each one of them managed to hold their. Together, could the two of them have achieved victory? I think they could have.
     
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  20. sethg

    sethg Manager Emeritus star 2 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 3, 2012
    Yoda flat-out tells Obi-Wan to his face, "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."
     
  21. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    The most troubling thing about the fight is, if after Palpatine has triumphantly announced the quelling of a Jedi rebellion, the thwarting of their attempt to assassinate him, and the formation of the Galactic in its wake to almost unanimous approval of the senate. How would the rest of the Republic have reacted to Yoda walking into the senate chamber and destroying the Emperor that very same day?
     
  22. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
    It's one of the reasons we see in the beginning of the film Obi Wan gets taken out by Dooku, they are literally painting the picture for us that if Obi Wan went with Yoda he would have been taken out though with death as the result.
     
  23. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 10, 2011
    That's part and parcel of the reason Yoda realizes he can't defeat Sidious by overthrowing him with physical force. Defeating Sidious and his Empire is the job of the next generation, and it can only be done by overpowering them both with love and friendship.
     
  24. Captaincrunch1967

    Captaincrunch1967 Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 11, 2017
    I've never believed that, basically Palpatine was the planner of planner and had the ultimate ability to see the paths to his future. Whether Mace was honorable or not, he was a required dupe, he was strategically placed to let Anakin see the hypocrisy of the Jedi Order and turn his back on it. If Palpatine wasn't sure of Anakin's eventual turn he wouldn't have basically leaked his Sith secrets to Anakin which bought the Jedi in to attack him which lead to Palpatine entrapping Anakin. If Mace had somehow found out and went to confront Palpatine, Sideous would have wiped the mat with him and removed him as a threat. Or manipulated Mace into the jedi killing trap of order 66.



    The whole character of Sideous was a cheat, he knew he was going to win as long as he manipulated the will of the force. Yoda even admits in the book version that the Jedi had spent a thousand years preparing to fight the Sith that they knew, but they were unprepared to fight a Sith like Palpatine who had basically re-invented and revolutionized what a Sith was. I don't know, If I'm fighting a guy who's flinging basially buildings at me along with lightning while laughing his butt off, after fighting the Jedi that was considerred the best duelist in the Jedi order to a standstill. Yeah I'd run too.


    Palpatine wasn't really all that scared of Yoda, he pretty much realized and knew that he was going to beat Yoda and needed to pretty much delay him and get him on the ground of his choosing.
     
  25. Darth Boycs

    Darth Boycs Jedi Youngling

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    Apr 25, 2018
    Really? It took all of Yoda's effort to control one of those flying podia, yet the Emperor was flinging dozens of them around, and having the time of his life doing so. Yoda got pwned, as another poster put it.