Agenda for Sunday 18th September.

Discussion in 'Midlands and Wales' started by Tay-Mar, Sep 11, 2005.

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  1. Jairen Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2000
    star 4
    As I understood it, and it is going to be discussed again at further meets, the dues were towards things like honourary membership plaques, stuff needed for manning tables at conventions etc, etc. Not so much money towards getting people to meets.

    However, I think Mark should be answering some of this. Oh Ninja, where are you?
  2. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Well I quote "or travel expenses for members."

    My personal opinion (and one I hold quite strongly) is that it costs people enough to get to meet-ups in the first place. The love of SW is what brings us together, and this is a hobby. People give up time for hobbies.

    When we make our film, we don't expect others to pay for things. The fact they give up their time is enough.

    I'm a member of a few internet groups and none of them require "dues" and they all have very successful meet-ups. People are willing to give up a days pay to attend, and to pay for travel costs themselves. That's part and parcel of having a hobby such as we do.

    There is a line where things cross from being "fun" to being "bureaucratic". I'm concerned that this will cross that line. I don't want to go to a meet-up where we have to have an agenda of things to discuss. That's what the forum is for!! I want to go to a meet-up to have a few drinks and to get to know in person the people I chat to everyday.

    If serious things need to be sorted out, then let's do that on-line. The RSAs and CRs can sort out stuff amongst themselves, either via IMs or by phone. That is their responsibility, and something they agreed to when taking the post. If things need to be addressed by the "chapter", then use the forum.

    Keep serious stuff to the forums, and make meet-ups fun and a chance to get to know people!
  3. Lord-Wiz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    these dues, are only for stuff like the banner that we all chipped in for. they would pay for flyers and stuff like that. it`s for the greater good. my 2p.
  4. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Why do we need a banner and flyers?
  5. Lord-Wiz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    the banner was used at signatopia, we all chipped in for the cost, not sure about anyone else though. flyers need to be printed off and put up in shops etc, for recruitment and profile raising, similar to how the south chapter are going to do it. printing costs money, and i can`t fund it on my own (just an example). :)
  6. Maleficant Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 5
    Mind if I add my 2 cents to this?

    What we do in Philly is this, we do not at this time charge dues for membership. Instead, when the need arises, we all try to chip in to get things done and we try to do that for as little money as we can. Of course this also has it's share of pro's & con's.

    Joe, care to throw in alittle more about this?

    I used to be in the Washington DC Fan Force as well and they do collect dues, normally $1-$3 and that money would get pooled together and entrusted to a Treasuer to oversee until the funds were needed. Normally it would help pay for the group's annual pic-nic, but still members would have to go into their own pockets to pay for things along the way.


    I know of another Fan Force that charges even more money, but I think that is pushing things way too far.

  7. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    So we pay money, to get more people to pay more money to get more people etc etc...

    If the people who actually went to signatopia wanted to pay money to get a banner, then great! However, if I spent money to attend a paying event, I wouldn't pay more money for a banner, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

    This is already the biggest Star Wars internet site. I expect over 80% of people who go to "local" Star Wars events are already well aware of TFN.

    This issue needs to be clarified. I will not pay a mandatory fee to have the "honour" of attending meet-ups. I already chat with everyone here. The term "dues" implies that monies have to be paid. Does this mean people who don't pay (for whatever reason) are not welcome? Does it mean they are frowned upon?

    I think a better way of attracting new members is for people to have something in their sig linking to the forum. This is an ONLINE group meeting up. The medium for advertising should reflect that.

    Again, this needs to be clarified.
  8. Tay-Mar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    star 4
    The bugs certainly need to be ironed out of this one Hal but as far as paying dues, if it helps oil the wheels and get us what we need and or want, them I'm happy to chip in. As Lord Wiz pointed out the banner used at signatopia was funded by us and those that could afford it chipped in, those that couldn't didn't, it's no major consipriacy m8.

    This is and always will be a non profit making organisation and I intend to keep it that way.
  9. Lord-Wiz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    i chipped in for the banner and i didn`t go to signatopia, neither did martin. that`s not the point though, it will be re-used.
  10. Happy Ninja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2000
    star 6
    I think I may have gotten my wires crossed on the subject of dues.

    But, the guys have picked up my slack and have pretty much given a re-explanation of what I was going for.

    Again, this will be discussed again, as it was only an idea that was tossed around the table.
  11. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I'm not saying it's a "conspiracy".

    Please note: The following is not intended to gain pity or sympathy.

    My wife and I have 3 kids (1 disabled) and live on benefits. Money is obviously tight. However, I make the effort to go to meet-ups (as long as I am free that day). It costs me a fair bit to do so. BUT, this is irrelevant to my feelings on "dues". I pay £20 a month to join the Tesco DVD rental service. We can't really afford it, and the money could be better spent, but it's a luxury for us, and we intend to carry on. Comments such as "I didn't go, but still paid" can be demeaning to some people (not to me, because although I can't afford stuff, that's not the issue. People can spend money how they like. It's personal choice), but it's exactly that sort of comment that gives the impression of two sides. Those that pay, and those that don't. I don't mean to single you out, Lord-Wiz, as I don't know you personally, so forgive me for using your post as an example. So what if Poster X pays for something they don't go to. Why feel the need to advertise that fact?

    As I said before, meet-ups are just that. Meeting people. It's not about advertising or official meetings. If and when I go to a meet-up, I don't want there to be an air of "You haven't paid", or the relevant feelings of guilt. I want to go to meet people in a fun and social environment. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Am I missing something here?
  12. Maleficant Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2002
    star 5

    You would be surprised to know alot of people do not know about Fan Force. TFN is broken into two parts:

    -TFN Main, which deals more with news in the SW world

    -Fan Force/Forums

    More people know about the Main/News section and never seem to come over to the forums. Everytime I have worked a fan table at a con I always hear the same thing "What's Fan Force?" or "I didn't know there was a local group". Having a strong pressence at a local con will help attract con goers to your table and therefore you will receive more members. Having a banner and handing out flyers also is a huge help. This not only goes for Fan Force but everyother SW/Sci-Fi group I have belonged to.



    Just some food for thought, I'm having a drink at the pub now...
  13. rebeljediknight_88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2005
    star 4
    and do we expect juniors to pay these? i think maybe suggest that people put in a certain amount a year.
  14. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Call me pig-headed or whatever other name comes to mind, but I do have my principles. I won't be attending meet-ups if I'm expected to pay for the privilege, or indeed if ANYONE is expected to pay for the privilege. People give up enough as it is.

    Edited for typos
  15. Jairen Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2000
    star 4
    This is where I argue the point Hal. Fan force is about real-world groups, the forums grew out of that. There is actually a requirement for real-world meets that the Fan Force has just to create an official chapter.

    Yes, we have a regional forum board that is intended as a ONLINE discussion and chat area, however the chapter boards are for real-world groups to discuss issues in-between their meets.

    Yes, meets do have an agenda where stuff gets discussed, but it's not like a board meeting or anything. It's just a place to iron out stuff that sometimes needs to be discussed in person rather than on the boards. Remember that electronic communication lacks the subtlety that is sometimes required for some stuff.

    As a part of what this group, as a group so far, has wanted to do, there has been a need for money to be outlaid on some stuff. We want to have presence at cons, we want to get involved in stuff. Remember that this is a fan club kind of thing, not just a group of people meeting up. That's the difference between a real chapter and what has existed previously in the UK. I hate to say it, but neither Scotland, London or Wales are what would be considered "real" chapters in the sense of Fan Force.

    Yes, the social aspect is a large part of it, but this particular chapter wants to be more, and that does sometimes cost money. The idea of dues was raised at the last meeting, but wasn't agreed or decided upon. However it was thought that some kind of money that could be put into a group fund for going towards banners, flyers, honourary membership stuff, getting involved with charities etc, etc, was a good idea.

    With regards to the 80% of people and TFN thing, I would say of all the people that came by the table at Signatopia, I think only one had actually heard of TheForce.net and had never bothered to visit it. Whilst TFN is probably the most widely known Star Wars site outside of starwars.com you'd be surprised how many people have never found it.

    Yes, we travel to a lot of meet-ups outside of what are to become the regular monthly "chapter" get togethers, and they are a purely social affair, for example the Memorabilia trip in August, the upcoming Memorabilia trip in November.

    Then there are other events where we want to have a presence, where we advertise for members, where we talk about what we see as the future of the Fan Force and ask other people to get involved. Events where we want to work towards raising money for charity. I'm sorry if you don't see Fan Force that way. However it is how the majority of this chapter see it and where they want to head.
  16. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I've read and digested what you've written. If most people want to head that way then that's great. I'm more than glad that similar-minded fans want to do more.

    Sad to say, this does not seem to be what I personally want, and so I will hold off from direct involvement (meet-ups and the like) until things are made more clear. This doesn't mean I won't continue to post here (unless of course I feel less than welcome - this is not a dig at anyone, just something I've seen happen on other boards). I look forward to seeing what definite plans are made for the future :)
  17. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Having re-read your post, there's a few issues.

    Firstly you seem to address only one line out of many posts I've made about this issue. I'd be interested in your response to the other points I raised.

    "Yes, meets do have an agenda where stuff gets discussed, but it's not like a board meeting or anything."

    Well, I disagree with this totally LOL!. Before the last meet-up, there was a thread discussing what issues should be raised - just like a board meeting. And then we had minutes posted - just like a board meeting! Where are all the posts about the socialising aspects? Talking about the meal? What went on (aside from the "meeting")?

    "Yes, we travel to a lot of meet-ups outside of what are to become the regular monthly "chapter" get togethers, and they are a purely social affair"

    Again, this is not true. We're talking about people contributing extra money exactly for these events. Flyers and banners etc. That is not a social event. That is an advertising event. A "purely social affair" means people meeting up for fun and social activities with no other agenda. That is not what has been discussed so far.

    Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to diss anyone or say you shouldn't do this. I'm trying to get to the heart of what people want and whether it corresponds with what I personally want. Should I decided that our interests are different and I don't want to be involved in this particular chapter, that doesn't mean I don't regard you guys and gals as friends etc etc blah blah :D
  18. Jairen Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2000
    star 4
    On the second of the two highlights in your last post you skipped over entirely the two events that I used as examples, both the Memorabilia from earlier in the year and the upcoming Memorabilia, where we have no agenda at all, just going for fun. No flyers, no banners, nothing but a bunch of us going out for a fun day and evening. What about the Xmas dinner that's coming up? That's not an external event with the need for flyers/banners etc. Some people will be bringing stuff with them probably, but if not, that's fine. I'm laying that one on as a "fun" meet. I'll also add the Collectormania meet on the main boards as an example of a purely social meet, again a bunch of FF-UK members getting together to have some fun. No flyers, no banners, etc, etc.

    As for the first highlight, with regards to discussing the social aspect of the meeting on Sunday on the boards, we kinda just didn't feel the need for it. The meeting started at about 5pm, we spent the next 4.5 hours chatting, laughing, drinking, eating and having fun. Then, when we'd all eaten well, we covered the points that needed covering in a pretty informal manner for about 30-40 minutes, before continuing with more socialising until about 10:30 when we all had to make a move (it was a Sunday after all and some of us had work the next day :( ) Mark then posted responses to the agenda items on the boards so everyone didn't have to make their own notes regarding those issues that were discussed.

    If we wanted to discuss the social side of it, we would, but I know I didn't feel the need as I just enjoyed it on the day. Do you feel the need to post a commentary on every night out with friends? The problem here is that you're only seeing the little bit of feedback that we post on the board regarding the issues that we discussed, not the social aspect of it, because the social aspect of it was contained on the night.
  19. Tay-Mar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    star 4
    Hal, there are reasons behind my posting an agenda thread, I won't go in to them here on the public board but if you'd like me to, I am more than happy to PM you with those reasons. The minutes have been posted because some members had to leave early and we all felt that they should have the same access to what was discussed as those that stayed later.

    The meet's Phill is talking about are things like conventions, signings and other stuff like the Midnight showing of RotS, where members attend but we aren't there by invite or for recruiting purposes, the events that any funds would be used for are, for example the fothcoming event at Leicester's N.S.C. where we have been invited to participate in a Star Wars day by the Uk Garrison, any funds raised by members would go towards things like banners, flyers and other things promoting the FF-UK and The Force.net.

    At this moment in time any 'donations' are on a voluntary basis, if you can't or don't want to contribute, you don't have to, it's no more complicated than that m8.
  20. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I didn't miss those examples, Jairen. But you said "we travel to a lot of meet-ups outside of what are to become the regular monthly "chapter" get togethers, and they are a purely social affair"

    From your last post, I take it that "Signotopia" was a regular monthly get together (as it has already been stated that Signotopia was not a purely social affair). I don't know, I wasn't there. But it's certainly clear that the meet on the 18th was a "regular monthly chapter get together"

    Does this mean, then, that we are to pay for the "regular monthly chapter get-togethers", but not the rest? Does this mean I have to pay if I'm gonna come and see you on the 22nd October? If we're staying at yours, does this money go to you?

    And still you are avoiding all the other issues I've raised. Please don't just pick up on the odd thing I type. We can both do that all night and not get anywhere. Please address the whole issue. We're talking about money here. I'm sure there are rules about what can and can't be done on the fora when money is involved. (Well, there may not be, but there should be!)

    Again, I'm not moaning directly at you. I'm simply voicing concerns at how this comes across. I don't honestly believe that we all have to "put £5 in the pot on the 22nd to give to Jairen cos he's putting us up and he's a bloody nice bloke" or anything like that. I simply seek clarification on the whole issue, not just little bits :)

    EDIT: Sort of another issue but one you raised. Why not advertise the social aspect of what happens at a meet-up? How do you want it to come across to people who didn't go? The impresion that comes across is that it's all business business business. Why should anyone who didn't go make an effort to go to the next one if that is the impression that comes across? Surely it's better to advertise to the people here first before going to others? After all, this is where the chapter started!

    EDIT 2: You say the meetup at Memoribilia was "purely social". Out of interest (I honestly don't know), there's a thread further down containing minutes of a meeting in August about banners and such. Was this meeting at Memorobilia or was it another day?
  21. Lord-Wiz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    the whole idea of dues came up because it was suggested (by myself i think) that we COULD have a lottery syndicate for the chapter. now i am not sure that this came over in the minutes properly. the whole dues thing started because of this. a couple of quid at every meet thrown into a pot and IF we get any winnings they carry over into the pot. any MAJOR winnings would be shared out, as decided by the WHOLE chapter.

    Halibut, you appear to have taken one part of the dues idea and run with it, and all credit to you, but no-one is saying that anybody HAS to pay anything. i would like for you to be a part of this chapter, as i have "fenced" with you over a couple of topics in the past and i think that in a social setting you would be great to meet. the more members in this chapter the better as far as i`m concerned, but nobody has said that you have to pay to be a member. :)

    (p.s., when i said that i paid for the banner but didn`t go to signatopia, i wasn`t giving you a bleeding heart story, i was just saying, that`s all. ;) i too have 3 kids and live on benefits) :)
  22. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    The lottery thing I have absolutely no issue with. In fact I support it wholeheartedly :)

    I have a couple of issues

    1) I don't want to travel 100 miles for evening for a business meeting. Granted, my concerns of this have been alleviated now (Thanks J!) :)

    2) Money issues. Always contentious, and as I've said it needs to be clarified very carefully. I'm a big Star Wars fan, but I'm not interested in "Memoribila" and "Signatopia" events. I'd rather meet up with some other Star Wars fans in a pub for a chat and a beer. If I'm not going to spend money to enter an event like that, I'm not gonna want to spend money on things that go on IN that event especially if I'm not even there!
  23. Tay-Mar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    star 4
    That was another day Hal, memorabillia was all about shopping, getting autographs and drinking. I agree with point about the last meeting being all business, to be honest it wasn't and if Phill ever manages to get the picies up you'll see what I mean but with the Happy Ninja situation the chapter was at a cross roads and things needed to be said and issues had to be aired.

    To clarify the MONEY thing, non of us paid anything, other than our share of the food and drinks bill to be at the meet on the 18th, in fact the only time I've ever paid to get to a meet was the Alton Towers meet we had back in the summer and then again the money I paid out was to get in to the place.

    No one is suggesting that members will be asked to pay anything to attend a meet.

    As Lord Wiz has posted the lottery idea is something that we've kicked around, no decision was made on it to be honest.

    We would love to have come along and see for yourself, if you wanted to. No one is going to be asking you for money and non of us expect you to attend events that you wouldn't normally attend, with all said and done we are Star Wars fans too and what we do is sit around, have a good laugh, drink beer and talk Star Wars.
  24. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Thanks for that Tay-Mar :)

    Of course there's no issue with one paying one's way (food, drinks, entrance, petrol etc)

    Looks like I will be at the meet-up in October*. The Midlands seems to spread a hell of a long way! I'm in Lincoln, and there's talk of meet-ups in Worcester! (3 hour drive away!)

    Hal

    *as long as there's beer :D
  25. Lord-Wiz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    fixed

    ;)
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