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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Agent of the Empire: Iron Eclipse #1 (of 5)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Sep 10, 2011.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Yet, if the Empire was so obviously evil, why did it take so long to fall and why didn't the galaxy defeat it more quickly than it did after Endor? One unpalatable answer is that, in the minds of many, the Empire was deemed a legitimate government. It was the Empire itself that dealt itself a shattering blow to that image with the Death Star and Alderaan. But even then, that didn't turn the galaxy against it - look at Soontir Fel as someone who was convinced the Empire remained better than the alternatives. It took a long time for the New Republic to acquire that aura of legitimacy and it nearly threw it away during the Caamas crisis by demonstrating near enough the same traits that destroyed its predecessor.
     
  2. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    Chalk that up to the power of propoganda. There was none better than the Empire. It wasn't merely that an Emperor's Hand managed the holonet --state television -- he WAS the holonet.

    I put your points with the ease of which nearly the entire galaxy renewed their loyalty to the returned Emperor and the Dark Empire.

    I'm sure the spectrum runs the full range from "good" planets that appreciate the order all the way to willing goose-steppers of the New Order.

    But, the former are misguided. Under the Empire, the worst crimes -- slaving, assassinations, etc. were greatly expanded.

    I'd like to think the Empire brutally oppressed what we'd think of as criminals. But it actually didn't. It legitimized most of the really bad crimes, so if you were regular Joe Republic, your life was worse off. You didn't just have to worry about slavery -- now if you said the wrong thing COMPNOR and SAG and all of those wonderful government agencies would come pay a visit.

    If stormtroopers didn't fricassee your parents outright.

    Great government that Empire was.

     
  3. DarthCane

    DarthCane Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Not to mention that the "chaos" of the Clone Wars that the Empire supposedly eliminated was all caused by the very man who headed the Empire. Palpatine was basically running the galaxy's biggest protection racket, with the next step being an all-out Sith theocracy as seen in Dark Empire.
     
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  4. jfostrander01

    jfostrander01 Writer: Dawn of the Jedi, Agent of the Empire star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Hi! Just wanted to pop by for a moment and thank everyone for their kind words so far on AotE. I had accidently locked myself out on the Forum for a few days but the mods got me back on. Thanks to them as well and Jedi Trace who got my message to them. Yay all of you!

    I also promise that the arc will just get more intense as we go.

    All the best

    -- John
     
  5. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2003
    This was a very good comic book, but then again anything with John is just awesome. Can't wait for the rest of the series.
     
  6. HedecGa

    HedecGa Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2006
    I wasn't really planning on picking this one up (so much Star Wars, not enough money), but on a whim I thought "Eh, why not?" and bought it. I'm very glad I did. This was a lot of fun and I'm excited to see where this will go. Great first issue!
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Yeah, but I'm thinking more of the inside perspective rather than the outside one you seem to have adopted. Propaganda is good, but totalitarian states rarely rely on it alone, they instead tend to use it as one amongst a set of sophisticated techniques to manipulate and corral the people. Yet, if they had to do that to everyone it probably wouldn't work: One of the darkest points made by ROTS is that the Empire was wanted by a large number of people, enough to make it legitimate in the eyes of most people. The attitude likely being: So life got harder? Hey, life's a bastard, get used to it! So what happens when the Empire starts becoming more repressive, well there's the array of rationalisations for people to invoke: It's for the greater good, so-and-so had it coming, keep your head down and stay out of trouble, not my job/problem. And there is of course TINA: There Is No Alternative! Democracy? Been there, done that, didn't work out too well.
     
  8. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    It's a fair point, but I'm the one that has to read it (and fortunately not live it), so I rather have to come at things from an external view.

    I've given it a go -- certainly the gaming experience made a big deal about playing Imperial heroes. In 1995, WEG released a "Heroes & Rogues" supplement, the main point of which was to explore in detail exactly the type of person characteristic of "Agent of the Empire." But, this was a full eight years of Rebel-only ("good"-only) gaming formally hard-coded into their rules. Then the computer games started with Jedi Knight. And in that same time, Luke's romance with Mara cemented, so she couldn't have been evil.

    I'll call it the "Tatooine Experience." This was a people who thought highly of the Imperial Academy. Their main starport was infamously the worst wretched hive of scum and villainy. There was one thing all the filth feared worse than each other and that was an Imperial Stormtrooper -- how much more worse would things have been without an Imperial presence?

    But, then there's things like Galaxy Guide 11: Criminal Organizations which blow the idea that the Empire could've on balance brought a better life for some people. One such gem is from the detailed section on slavery: "Slavers are among the vilest of the criminal professions. With the rise of the Imperial New Order, slavers in general have enjoyed a sort of unofficial governmental sanction, leading to the rapid growth of their industry..." Bounty Hunting; same thing -- under the guise of "regulating the industry" the Empire blew things wide open. Have a beef with someone and some creds, just put out a legitimate bounty -- dead or alive -- and you were good.

    And so, the Tatooine Experience -- for good people -- always became the Kyle Katarn experience; the Biggs Darklighter experience, or the Han Solo experience. At some point, good people will have seen or heard, or witnessed, or experienced one death, disappearance, slave, planet-fragging too many.

    I can accept your "insider's POV" point for the regular Imperial inhabitants -- short order cooks in a Coruscanti diner; a droid-repairman, everyone who was in the Republic who inherited this thing. But, the "Agents of the Empire" aren't them. And my tolerance for the Empire's "best, most-trusted" agents, actually somehow being good at heart, or living out their entire professional lives whacking only those individuals more morally bankrupt than Emperor Palpatine stretches the suspension of disbelief. What are the odds that a single one managed to survive under Palpatine's notice -- but it's actually all of them? That starts to stretch the suspension of disbelief.

    It's a rather interesting phenomenon. When the people we know are villains actually are the villains of the story, there's no end to the horrors they do. When Vader and Maul, or Emperor's Hand Jade, or Boba Fett are all up against someone else's story -- or an ensemble big picture story, they're clearly the bad guys. But, the moment they become the protagonist in a mini-series -- mostly comics (but Ryder Windham's Maul scholastic books come to mind) -- then all of a sudden, they're Mother Theresa ridding the galaxy of a despicable criminal thug, a corrupt Imperial or worse, an Imperial mad doctor performing gruesome experiments -- all on his own without the "benevolent" Empire's knowledge.

    I can accept a Jahan Cross who has embraced the New Order; he can be complex but maybe not so sympathetic much more so than I can accept Mara Jade rationalizing after-the-fact that she was the Emperor's personal assassin but never did evil all the while still harboring warm, fond feelings for the man.

    I mean, if we get many more of these people, then the reality actually will be the Emperor was a great guy and the galaxy was better off that he's got Mara Jade killing crimelords and corrupt Imperials, and Cross killing corrupt Imperials. The Empire will be able to do so much more good now that the inefficiences have been eliminated.
     
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  9. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Actually, I'd argue that Heroes & Rogues provides the best evidence of why the Empire couldn't have been as monolithic as you suggest. You imply that Palpatine would not let a good person last long in his service--but where's the proof? Individuals like Soontir Fel, Maarek Stele, Teren Rogriss, Osvald Teshik, Betl Oxtroe (the list goes on and on), flourished in the Empire because His Majesty found their moral convictions useful. It was a good thing to have those people believe in the Empire.

    Imperial Intelligence, after all, always represented the flip side to COMPNOR and those delightful little fascists you alluded to earlier. Intel was the traditionalist, patrician organization with Republican roots--it thoroughly despised COMPNOR and its totalitarian nonsense. If anybody should represent the "good" side of the Empire, it should be an Intelligence operative.

    That said, I take your point about Mara Jade--or rather, I would make reference to Thrawn or Pelly instead. Those are "honorable" line soldiers who were nevertheless as ruthless as all get out: Thrawn was perfectly willing to sacrifice infants to a madman and Pelly willingly participated in slaving operations. They are not angels: and to that extent, yes, it would be disappointing if the Zahn path were followed with Cross.

    But that doesn't mean Cross should be some slack-jawed, drooling ideologue who carries the New Order manifesto in his breast-pocket while goose-stepping all the way to the market to purchase Palpatine's Kool Aid. He represents the Establishment Imperial.

    edit: And trust me, everything you said about Her Majesty's Secret Service being the flip side of Imp Intel could be reversed too: I've already heard the arguments that it upheld an exploitative, colonialist régime, etc etc etc. I take your point that we shouldn't see Cross whitewashed (and to be honest, knowing this creative team, I doubt we'll have that problem) but we don't need cartoon supervillains either. That's what those dark side troglodytes are for.
     
  10. jfostrander01

    jfostrander01 Writer: Dawn of the Jedi, Agent of the Empire star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2001
    I'm curious. Of those of you who bought AotE 1, did you buy it in print or digitally? Anyone buy both forms? If you bought it digitally, why and would you do so again? If you bought it digitally, what was the experience like as compared to buying a print comic?

    -- Curious John
     
  11. Manisphere

    Manisphere Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Curious John, I bought it in print and always will buy comics in print. I'll buy novels digitally but not comics.
     
  12. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Finally got a chance to read my copy today (hardcopy- I don't have a tablet and don't like reading comics on a computer monitor; although my copy had some stuck pages, my LCBS will probbaly let me swap for a good copy). Great first issue- i agree with the earlier assessment that there's a WEG vibe here that is fantastic. The HSA placement association is an interesting choice too- it locks in Han/Chewie but in a more open timeframe for them.

    Also, I can't be the only one to realize Cross gets his gear from Imperial Muppet Labs, can I?

    [image=http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/a/a4/Dr._bunsen_honeydew.jpg] [image=http://www.rackham.be/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/muppets_beaker.jpg]

    I mean, the poor test subject's name is Bleeker. [face_laugh]



    Confusing if someone has an accent at the academy.

    "Who, Han?"
    "Jah, Han."
    "Jahan?"
    "No, Han."
    "Han?"
    "Jah, Han."

    He was bound to make up for that eventually. ;)
     
  13. Lord_Hydronium

    Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Digitally, once I learned that DH had finally gotten their app on Android. Got it because it was a lot more convenient (I'm not actually sure where my nearest comic store is after moving), and it read really nicely on my tablet. I'll definitely be getting future issues like this. Didn't seem like the images were that hi-res, though; it looked great reading it at normal screen resolution, but got a little blurry zooming in.
     
  14. Kylun

    Kylun Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2008
    I've always bought the trades as I don't really care to have single issues laying around. Plus trades look better on my shelf. I hate waiting for trades though, so I've always borrowed issues from friends just to keep up. Now I can read them as soon as they're released (well, as soon as DH gets around to putting the digital ones up), and at a small discount too. The ones I really really like I'll still buy in trade form anyway, so I'm definitely showing my support :p

    And I view the digital comics on my pc. It's not the best viewing experience honestly, as I'm either zoomed out to full page or zoomed in but jumping around, but it's worth it to be able to partake in all the DH SW goodness in real-time :D
     
  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    As I said earlier, I got them digitally. I have little interest in buying print comics because I just don't care for the format: too small, and too inconvenient to find. TPBs are different--they're collections, they're nicely bound, and I can justify the storage space. Individual issues . . . not so much. I was always a few days to weeks behind in Legacy, too, because I just couldn't be bothered to go to a comic store all that often. Oftentimes I'd just read them at the store and "contribute" by later buying the TPB. With the ease of a digital format, I am more likely to purchase comics on the day of release and more likely to purchase comics in general, even outside of the series I decide to become a "regular" for. I'm definitely more inclined to purchase every issue of the series I do like (e.g., this one). I would absolutely hope that digital comics continue to be released on the same day as print comics, since both products are paid (unlike, say, delayed free products like hulu streaming and such).

    I second Hydronium's comment about image quality though. I haven't tried the iPhone viewer yet, as I was using the in-browser version. The text was just about readable at its size, but I didn't try the zoom. If he's right about the zoom quality not being as crisp, I'd like to see that addressed too.
     
  16. Darth McClain

    Darth McClain Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    I got a print copy, although I might get digital editions in the future. I definitely plan on getting this TPB when it's released, as well.


    I'm usually a TPBer, but I had to get this as it comes out.
     
  17. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Haven't bought it yet (gonna do it this weekend), but I'll be buying it digitally, simply because I don't really know of a local comic book store near me. I will likely buy the trade paperback at some point, however.

    As for the experience? Well, I'll admit I do prefer actually having the comic in my hand, but in the end, if a good story is being told, it doesn't really matter how you read it IMO. If the story can pull me in, I won't care if I'm reading it from print or on my computer screen. The upside to it being digital, however, is that the comics are impossible to lose (except for data loss and such).
     
  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Print.

    I'm OK reading news articles and forum posts on screen but novels and comics, no. Just doesn't work for me.
     
  19. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    For those of you who read it digitally, do the digital comics all have that inbuilt "next frame" function that's in the free Mass Effect comic that comes with the DHC viewer? (The thing that automatically zooms-in-and-out to the next frame, or speech bubble, or whatever, based on what the digital editor person presumably thought was the best way to view it on a computer screen?)

    Admittedly, I was torn on whether I felt that was beneficial or not with the ME comic, but on the balance of things, since I was reading on my iPad at the time, it actually was fairly neat, as it saved me the hassle of having to scan around and/or zoom by myself, given the small screen. Plus it gave the images a certain "cinematic" feel, albeit in a freeze frame motion sort of way.

    I'm currently assuming that's probably not built into every comic by default though, due to the work required in programming it?
     
  20. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Didn't see that feature in the web viewer, no.
     
  21. HedecGa

    HedecGa Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2006
    I got it in print.
     
  22. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Heh, nah, it ain't just you Quest!
     
  23. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Finally picked this one up. As my first "real" comic book purchase ever (not counting trade paperbacks), I probably couldn't have picked a better one. I enjoyed every panel of this. Great job John, you've really outdone yourself.

    I really love the Han Solo Adventures, and it was great to see the Corporate Sector and Espo's again. However, I actually have a question about that. Doesn't this series take place a whole year before Han's adventures in the Corporate Sector? I suppose it makes sense for Han to have been there before ditching his would-be fiancé, just wondering if this is actually supposed to take place during the HSA.

    Yes, it does indeed have that. It was weird at first, but I quickly got used to it. Just click the option in the top right, and then use the arrows on the computer to cycle through panels.
     
  24. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Really? Huh. Should try that out.
     
  25. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    I'll probably be waiting for the TPB on this. I don't have a local comic store and my last go at getting individual issues mail order from Forbidden Planet in London didn't end happily. (That was for the Blood Ties series.) However, we do have Star Wars Galaxy magazine here in the UK which reprints selected comic issues. If they pick up on this I might be able to get it that way. That's what I ended up doing with Blood Ties til the TPB came out.