Amph Agents of SHIELD Discussion Thread (and Slingshot)

That is assuming everyone is what they say they are. With no one else at that base, who says Koeing isn't Hydra except Koeing himself? Such would put the episodes in a new light.

In that regard, Ward still could be under orders/deep undercover to weed out everyone.

 

It's not something I'd put past Whedon's team to pull.

Bill Paxton interview on the last few eps of this season's SHIELD (Spoilers ahoy!)

I'll say it again: It's very clear Paxton's enjoying this role.

 

Honestly anyone could be Hydra. Koenig might have been hoping to catch Ward being Hydra so he'd FINALLY have someone to say HAIL HYDRA! to after being alone so long.

 

Koenig couldn't be Hydra, unless we're suggesting Hydra knows Fury is alive already.

 

Animal was my favorite Muppet/Muppet Baby growing up.

 

Well I'm sure lots of satellites covered Fury landing at the Triskelion. I wouldn't assume Hydra is in the dark on much.

 

Then the movie wouldn't have made a huge deal about his grave, "If people ask where I am, tell them this is where I am," etc.

He's supposed to be dead.

 

People assume he's dead. Most everyone thinks he's dead, but not everyone has Hydra's resources. Fury wants people to think he's dead so they don't look for him. Hydra may know or suspect he's alive, but it doesn't help them if they can't find him.

 

Koenig couldn't be Hydra, unless we're suggesting Hydra knows Fury is alive already.

Well, GA just covered the obvious part from the movie, but what if Koeing didn't know Fury was alive, and used that to try and pull information about Fury from Coulson in a reverse psychology kind of way? It would be a different way to explain why the only time it's mentioned is when it's only and Coulson away from the team:

-Koeing to Coulson: "Did you know that Fury is alive?"
Coulson answer A: "Yeah, of course I did, I'm level 8 and you're only level 6..." (Ah, Ha!, Hydra now confirmed something new...)
Coulson answer B: "I didn't know that, I've been on the run, yadda yadda..." (Hydra doesn't know anything new, time to try something else, oh, like a lie detector.)

It would also explain why only Koeing had the trackers, of which even Coulson had to wear one, and not only that, he was the first to get one from Koeing.

I'm not suggesting that Koeing used the lie detector to confirm that Ward is Hydra, but that Garrett put Koeing up to it to truly find out if Ward isn't a triple agent, along with the same specific questions given to everyone on the team. What if in the "cut away" during Ward's interrogation, Ward discovered that Koeing was Hydra? The audience assumes that Ward killed Koeing to cover his own tracks, but what if that same footage would show him signalling to Coulson or Hill at the time he was breaking into the fridge with Garrett because he was keeping track of him and it would blow his cover to Hydra?

It's the exact feeling that results from a story line like this, but to me, something just seemed off about Koeing from the beginning, and not in the "I've been down here since New York, but it's ok, because I play video games" sense, but in the "I've been specifically planted here to keep track of all of you" sense.....

Or it could be that Ward is simply bad. Really, really, bad. But I still have hope for him. Either way, it makes for good speculation.

 

Okay, I mean this with the greatest of respect but basically anyone who believes that Ward is a good-guy / triple-agent at this point is delusional beyond even most reasoned geeky tin-foil hatting.

 

I don't think Ward is a good guy, he's probably Hydra to the core. I'm just not sure anyone isn't Hydra other than say Coulson, and if Hydra was behind his brain surgery and memory implants he could be a sleeper agent himself.

 

There was a good theory that Simmons is also Hydra; though I think we can for sure rule out Coulson, Fitz and May. Trip is unlikely, but not impossible.

 

Agreed. Doesn't mean he won't be redeemed by his love for Skye though.

That seems to be the way they'll go. Ward really only has three choices after everyone figures him out next episode:

1) Die
2) Rejoin Coulson's team after comitting some act of redemption
3) Get arrested or Escape to recur later.

Given how kill happy this show has gotten, I won't rule #1 out yet but I doubt that's the option. Likewise, I have trouble seeing Ward reduced to a recurring character even if Tripp stays on the team. Therefore, all signs point to some terrible redemption plot. Though really, if Coulson still allows Ward on the team after learning this, then May really should have him examined.

 

May I'd trust not to be hydra, but I'd still give a 15% chance. Coulson for all we know was Hydra until he got new memories, maybe Fury and Hill wanted to create their own anti-hydra infiltrator considering how chummy Coulson was with Sitwell and Garret. Trip has family that fought Hydra, but so did Pierce, and he has played the 'i hate garret/hydra' thing pretty hard. Fitz is clearly there just to keep Simmons there, so he and Ward are similar there... Simmons never really passed Hand's test... Honestly Skye could be Hydra too.

Cap will get Winter Soldier an Avengers membership before too long... so Coulson would probably have precedent for bringing a redeemed Ward back.

Not to mention Black Widow probably still has a higher 'good guy' kill count that Ward does.

 

I'm going by when Garret was going to kill Coulson / May and maim Fitz because they weren't Hydra and wouldn't join up with him...

People uninvolved with that scene were Skye (not Hydra), Ward (Hydra) and Simmons (???) / Trip (??? but probably not)...

 

They might have thought it was a trick like Hand pulled... or maybe it was an elaborate ruse to fool Hand since she was watching and hearing the whole thing... what better way to infiltrate SHIELD...

I'm still not trusting any of them.

If it was part of her mission she would. Ward risked his life for the team quite a bit.

 

Anybody taking orders directly from Fury himself... probably not Hydra.

 

If they make Simmons or Fitz Hydra, I'm out.

 

I don't know dp, I can wear a geeky tin-foil with the best of them....

-Take what Cap said to Nick Fury in WS. "It all has to be torn down...." something to that effect. Now, project that overall principle into the tv show.

1)No one knows who is who, and both Hydra and SHIELD are vying for what is left.
2)Ward is the closest to Clairvoyant/Garrett/Hydra Leader than anyone.
3)Back during the reveal episode, there was a cut scene before Ward got onto the plane to "see Garrett to the fridge," where Coulson and he could have confirmed his mission.
(at this time, I can't explain why he would shoot Victoria Hand and I don't think they are going to be LMD's)
3)Ward is in the position to keep track of all the remaining Hydra upper management, including Garrett and Raina
4)Everything about Koeing seemed too good to be true
(ie, sitting alone in a "secret" base, the trackers, the lie detector, basically everything about him)
5)Garrett gave Ward orders to kill everyone at the base to get the hard drive, and have Skye decode it or kill her too.
6)Everyone else left, except him, Koeing and Skye.
7)At this point, the only way to save Skye is to get her out of the base, which is what he did...Skye thinks he is going to kill her, but he could be all about saving her life.

Now, don't get me wrong, a lot of that is certainly stretching interpretation, but at this point, the obvious answer is that Ward is bad. Ward would still be an intriguing character if he was bad too. I particularly like the speculation that he could be Baron Zemo's grandson based on his "life of privilege" comment from a couple of episodes ago..

But nothing about this has been obvious. There is plenty of clues to suggest that he is is still good and not have it be completely cheesy.

 

Joss tends to like the perky happy go - lucky optimistic girls/women (Willow, Fred, Kaylee, Dollhouse's Madeline/November in her Mellie persona), until he either slowly turns them evil (re: Willow with Magic) or kills them horribly (Fred, November). So there's a 50% chance Simmons will end up dying in some manner, 40% chance she'll end up brainwashed or seduced to evil in someway and a 10% chance she'll end up surviving the series.

 

Koenig said he was taking orders from Fury... May said she was taking orders from Fury... until Fury says otherwise both could be lying.

 

FYI: back to my tin-foil hat theory. it appears that the season (series?) finale airs on the exact date of the ABC upfronts...

Coincidence?!?

I THINK SO!!!