Amph Agents of SHIELD Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Lazy Storm Trooper, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. Dingo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    If Joss was the regular show-runner, hands-down it would be #1. With it being Jed and Marissa, I'm leaning more towards 3.

    I did like the Dollhouse reference. It's just a small in-joke, and clues people in about 20 seconds earlier that there's something fishy going on here.

    And DarthMane2, I'm happy you have nothing to do with the production. Doing what you say would ensure that it wouldn't have even reached the back 9 pick-up. There is a reason that Buffy is as beloved a show across the demographics as it is. There's a reason that Smallville lasted as long as it did, and was strong for many years (under Gough and Millar). There's a reason that a station notorious for axing things early stuck with Fringe for its entire run. There's a reason that Arrow is setting the new standard for 'superhero' serialised viewing.

    The focus has to be on the characters. They are what draw you in and make you invest in a show. You need to start off developing the mains into people that viewers want to come back to again and again, while slowly setting up a broader story arc. Lost taught everyone the lesson that too much mythology too quickly leads to problems down the line because you then make that the centre of the show. And if they were to go full on Morrison/David/Bendis mode on the show, they would have to keep upping themselves every week to prevent sharp drops in ratings. Which means that by now we'd be seeing full Asgardians battling it out in the streets and be on the verge of seeing the Armor Wars storyline swing into full gear (with Civil War or Dark Reign being the back 9 story).

    While some of the more enthusiastic comics fans want to see the pages of their favourite stories come to life, that won't hold the attention of the general public who will happily deal with the more fantastic elements in a movie because it only requires a short investment into the story, and because Marvel have managed to actually tell good stories at the same time with each of the Avengers-family movies.

    That's not to say that SHIELD couldn't be moving things a bit quicker and having some better characterisations, but frankly this is what I was expecting. We have what is likely a roadmap for the season (and show) from Joss, being executed by others. The last time that happened there were similar results until the full show-runners were able to wrap themselves around the overarching mythology and play with it as if it was their story from the start (I'm talking about Angel for those that haven't caught on). Frankly once they have resolved the Coulson resurrection question, people will start to have a lot more patience and appreciate what is going on. Everyone wants that answer and aren't thrilled that they have to wait for it.

    I'm hoping though that they do hold onto people like Frakes who will be an asset in telling good stories. That's essentially where they are at, trying to assemble the crew of regular writers and directors that can rotate through and tell a consistent and well executed story.
    Last edited by Dingo, Nov 20, 2013
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  2. lbr789 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 1
    Though I enjoyed the latest episode, I was a bit disappointed with all the "follow up to T:TDW" hype, since it basically amounted to . . . nothing. The plot may concern an Asgardian weapon, but it's got nothing whatsoever to do with the movie.
    Last edited by lbr789, Nov 20, 2013
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  3. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    It tied into Thor about as much as I expected. It was like a lot of comic event tie-ins: loosely connected but completely stand alone and skippable to enjoy the core story (in this case Thor:TDW).
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  4. s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 7
    Yeah the tie-in was misleading because they definitely showed Thor and Coulson on the previews and that never happened but I'm not upset about it. It isn't like I watched the episode only for the tie-in.

    I think those that aren't seeing the overall plot or the tie in from week to week need to pay more attention. There's definitely still two big things going on in the background and sometimes foreground each episode. We just get to experience the field agents going about their daily lives while those things are occurring which in this case tends to mean crisis of the week. I don't want them to rush in and resolve the Coulson story. I think it is ridiculous for him to figure it out on his own this quickly so I hope they continue to drop hints before the big reveal.

    spoiler (open)
    OMG I did not see May and Ward hooking up that way!
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  5. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    Show Spoiler
    It's evolving into a love hexagon...
  6. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I think this is as an example of the problems this show has. Yes, there is ostensibly a "mystery" around Coulson's death. But what is the point? The actor doesn't behave meaningfully different in the show than he did in the films. His deadpan humor is still exactly the same. Nor has he seemed bothered or surprised by his lack of reaction to what was, at best, a near-death incident. So what are the stakes behind learning the truth? Why should it matter to viewers, given that it seems to have had no impact on the character's life. It's an academic point, and one created entirely by the writers of the Marvel film/television series having written themselves into a corner. If this was going to be important, it should be important to the character, and if it was going to be unimportant, they should've just explained it early and moved on. Simply withholding the logic of the show to no greater purpose than to create "mystery" is tiresome. As with the later seasons of HIMYM, if there's no plot significance then put up or shut up. These sorts of things tend to make stories less engaging, not more.
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I think we're starting to see the significance. Coulson realizes something isn't right about himself. He seems to be the same, but as noted, he's approaching things differently from how he had before. No, we didn't see those things in the films, but the films weren't all about him. The most it was about him, took place in "Thor". We know that May notices the difference. As well as others who knew him before his death. Now he's starting to catch on to the changes. As to the stakes, it raises a lot of moral and ethical questions about S.H.I.E.L.D. and their methods going forward.
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  8. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Missed the show last night, just caught it online.

    This - while not the best episode of the season - might have been the most enjoyable for me. I loved the subtle tie-in back to the cellist from Avengers. I loved seeing more of the Ward character. And, I loved that it felt more like a comic book, without being too campy and over the top.

    I'm enjoying the non-linearity of it all. It's not just about Coulson being alive. Or just being driven by Skye's parents. Or just a mystery as to why May didn't want to get back in the field. Every character has their moment in the spotlight, and there's good balance.

    And, of course, I loved that as it went to credits, both Mrs. Inty and I exclaimed at the same time "Coulson's a Doll?"
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  9. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    This was one of those fundamental building block episodes the show really needs. I'm starting to really enjoy the character interactions, get a feel for everyone, and just generally enjoy it. It's not great, but at least now it's good. The last string of episodes have been decent, so if they stay down this path, I'm all for it.

    Dunno why they so desperately needed to tie this in with Thor though. They could have done this episode at any other time.
  10. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    This episode hyped up tying itself into Thor 2, dealt with that four a few minutes, then abruptly decided it was gonna be about a stick that makes people angry and/or sad.

    No matter how good the performances were ( Ward, Coulson, and FitzSimmons have been great lately), the plot was pretty dumb.
  11. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    So anyone else notice these little issues?

    Show Spoiler
    1. Coulson says he has no memory of what happened to him after 'dying' but he told the firefighter about seeing the afterlife. So are we to take his talk with the firefighter as just a 'here's some nice thoughts before you die but it's complete bull' speech or was he just exaggerating here?

    2. Coulson asks Fury for Thors help. Per the pilot the Avengers don't know Coulson is alive because they aren't high enough level. Then later Thor tells the Asgardian he'll introduce him to Thor next time. So apparently they are okay with Thor finding out Coulson is alive or, and this is my theory, Thor already knows Coulson is alive. I mean Heimdall sees all and I wouldn't be surprised if he just mentioned to Thor that the 'son of Coul' was up and walking around again.

    Also the berserker staff here really reminded me of the Journey Into Mystery comic arc with Sif becoming one.
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  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    It was done purely as a promotional tool to make people watch the show.

    Show Spoiler
    It's either that he was being partially honest, or that he was starting to remember but what he remembers is Tahiti.


    Show Spoiler
    I think that Coulson believed that if the situation warranted contacting Thor and cluing him in on not only the problem the team was facing, but that he was alive, that Fury would go along with it. Regardless of clearance levels. As to the introduction, I think that was Phil just being nice. Fury would probably insist that he'd not be involved due to security.
  13. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    This episode's insistence that Asgardians are just aliens is a little irksome, especially as it seems to imply that it's only because of artifacts they possess that they have powers. That would be fine, except the one guy twists a knife with his bare hand, Thor can box with the Hulk (without Mjolnir), Heimdall's EYES seem to let him see everything, and the Odinsleep implies that Odin is a sort of Fisher King for Asgard.

    The weird insistence on "ALIENS" is frustrating because Kirby and Lee implied it but also played up the fantastical. Consider that DC's New Gods of New Genesis and Apokolips are the equivalent of Asgard - science and magic are interwoven and inseparable there, and Thor says as much in his first movie. So why do they keep pointing out Thor isn't actually a god even though he fills the Norse role pretty well?

    This last episode was great provided you ignore their attempts at world building - the acting was top notch and the dialogue felt pretty solid. But it's still got this weird love of over-exposition, which is also present in the Avengers (that weird scene where it's very casually implied Loki's staff is making them all act like jerks and they very clearly lay out their personality conflicts and point at each other angrily before Banner talks about suicide out of the blue and wow I hated that scene), and I hope we move past it.

    I guess part of the problem is that there's a continual need to introduce an unfamiliar audience to things, but that never stopped Kirby and Lee from making stuff up on the fly or just getting the audience to roll with it. All that Marvel canon had to be built up and created, so the show's attempts at building an expanded MCU feel unwieldy. A myth arc has to be grown and created gradually.
  14. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    I haven't seen anyone post this yet, so sorry if I missed it, but I geeked out when someone showed me this:

    [IMG]
  15. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Yep. Saw it on another site I'm on, geeked out as well. Stealing and posting it in the Who thread.
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  16. Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2012
    star 4
    Did say for anyone else that the next episode was the season finale?
  17. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    More likely mid - season finale, as ABC picked up the back 9 for a full 22 ep season.
  18. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
  19. pronker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2007
    star 3
    The bracelet permits Skye to access her laptop? Did I miss something?
    Liking the show more and more ...:)
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  20. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    According to Bleeding Cool, they are going to start producing longer story arcs and some two parters. Sounds like a wise move.
  21. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    No, you didn't- they jet her do that last episode too. I assume her bracelet isn't as restrictive as the one they gave her Rising Tide boyfriend since they actually need her to hack stuff for the team.
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  22. Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2012
    star 4
    Link?
  23. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    That was a Roxxon station in the beginning of the episode.

    Just occured to me Skye does what real hackers do, she is a social engineer. She hacks people.
    Last edited by VadersLaMent, Nov 28, 2013
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  24. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Hey! It was #1!
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  25. Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2012
    star 4
    Are you in the right thread?