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Census Agreed upon sources in the Politics thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Outsourced, Feb 4, 2018.

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Do you think the Politics thread should have a list of approved sourced for debates?

  1. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  2. No

    10 vote(s)
    66.7%
  3. Undecided

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    This topic of conversation has come up several times in the thread, and I feel like it would be a good idea to actually get a poll going on it.

    As the title says, the question is:
    Agreed upon sources in the Politics thread

    This would basically boil down to deciding, as a whole, what sources that lean left, right, and center are reputable in their reporting so people on both sides of the divide have a common basis to work from without skewing far left or far right in our sources.

    @anakinfansince1983 @Dread Pirate Roberts
     
    Dread Pirate Roberts likes this.
  2. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
  3. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Rule one of JCC: Never do serious polls.
     
  4. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    People like J-Rod will always go to sites that confirm their bias. They'll ignore the listing regardless, so why would you try to officiate it?

    Who decides official, too?
     
  5. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I do not comment on the politics thread much, but I am going with no on this one. I understand that it would make things a lot easier, but at the same time, I think any source should be allowed as long as it's not promoting someone's death or something of that nature. Debates need a varied amount of sources and it is up to the reader of that source to determine if it is too biased to be trusted. All news is biased in one way or another, but as long as it's not fake news (legit fake news) it should be allowed. I enjoy seeing people's different opinions and I hope this is not stifled in any way. Well as long as it does not break TOS.
     
  6. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Probably a vote between members.
     
  7. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    That assumes equality of opinion.
     
  8. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    I mean, you have people like @Dread Pirate Roberts and @anakinfansince1983 who are willing to put off sources that confirm their bias that don't conform to journalistic standards. I think we, as a community, can make it work.
     
    Dread Pirate Roberts likes this.
  9. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Darth Punk likes this.
  10. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    OK but on what basis is the community agreeing? Is this based on a general tertiary education approach to sources? It it discounting tabloid press, which in some instances have been the papers that blew open scandals other papers couldn't get close to? Is it based upon pedigree in investigations to date, and if so does that factor in cost cutting and other measures in the print media space?
     
    Bacon164 likes this.
  11. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    I have people on the far-left (or, for Ender so he doesn't get pedantic, the AMERICAN far-left) say, with all seriousness, that there are no sites to use except a couple of people on YouTube "telling it like it is" or listening directly to Bernie or Noam Chomsky.
     
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Obviously I’m in favor of the idea as I’ve been asking for it for some time. I don’t know that we could get the user base as a whole to agree on it though, based on the fact that I have been asking for it for a long time and have still made very little progress.

    It could work and be enforceable if we went back to old Senate rules, which also included, among other things, no posting links without discussion. Those rules were not very popular with the user base, though, and were mainly in place on the old boards when all the YJCC subheaders were not found in one place.

    I think we will continue recognizing the futility of arguments with the Trump supporters who refuse to acknowledge any source which criticizes Trump, no matter how many decades or centuries that source has been credible. And as a user base we’ll have to continue requesting another source for information that comes from a source that does not seem credible—or, on the other hand, pointing out that the source has been around longer than Trump himself when someone supporting Trump says that a source is not valid because it paints Trump in a bad light.

    ETA: @dp4m , and as a Bernie supporter, I’ll say that what you’ve just described is as terrible as someone on the far right claiming that Alex Jones or WorldNetDaily or MadWorldNews are the only “valid” sources.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  13. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    It gets harder because there are sites that both do their own work AND act as aggregators in their articles on the same site (i.e. most of GMG). Generally it's a false dichotomy though, as you'll get enough people on the left AND right who post from places like usuncut (defunct now) or breitbart. Hell, FOX News doesn't even call itself news, so you'd never get agreement from anyone outside of your own political spectrum...
     
  14. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2005
    I’d be in favor of restoring a basic rule of no posting a link w/o discussion. The larger debate around Senate / JCC was cultural assimilation, but I believe we’ve moved beyond that argument, and there are many threads that have individual rules of participation.
     
  15. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    But my point is fundamentally you're asking people to either adhere to a list that they can't, because they're in an echo chamber and if they were aware of this presumably they wouldn't be. I'm also not convinced we've anyone close to expert enough to identify the validity of sources objectively. What you're trying to do is create barriers to entry for discussion, only you don't quite realise that is what you're doing. Moreover, you're setting a baseline you're not qualified to set.

    If you want to highlight nonsensical sources for being nonsense, you need to make an argument as to why to the person using them. Not simply create another line in the sand to disengage them further.

    EDIT: I am in favour of a modified version of the no link without discussion piece. The basic rule of thumb should be "links are not discussion", because there can be a time when "hey guys, SOTU is live: https://www.thisistheend.com/" is a viable post. But the mere fact that a story has hit your sphere of consciousness - through social media, RSS, whatever - is not in and of itself post worthy.

    It's also not a contribution to merely post the link and add nothing to it. Hence, not making links a substitute for posts. But, are you going to enforce it at a moderator level?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    CT-867-5309 and Bacon164 like this.
  16. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    BTW, there is no thread called "the politics thread". However, I do know the one you're referring to. It's the "remedial politics for the autism nation" thread isn't it?

    The other politics threads here do just fine without pre approved sources
     
    Ender Sai, DANNASUK and SuperWatto like this.
  17. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I love you, and also yes, for the elegant simplicity of Fleet St.

    We know the Daily Mail is good for a laugh or to understand what anti-Islamic buzzwords the populist right of today are using.
    You just know the BBC will always be accused of bias, by all parties.

    The Grauniad will have an unedited (no, literally) left wing bent unless it's Owen Jones writing in which case you can practically smell the musky odours of Jeremy Corbyn's freshly kissed bottom.

    And, of course, the Times will have that air of disappointment in the ramshackle policies of the left that only the British centre-right can muster.
     
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  18. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
  19. Dread Pirate Roberts

    Dread Pirate Roberts Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2017
    This could very possibly not work at all, but why pull the plug before seeing any results?

    Thanks @Outsourced for taking the initiative. I hope we can give this a shot.
     
    Outsourced likes this.
  20. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I do see what you're trying to do here, but I think you need to trust me that I have some experience in this area and it will simply not work out as you hope. The best thing you can do is make a call that a) links aren't sufficient in and of themselves as a Senate tagged post, and b) if you're asked to PPOR, post proof and that media sources > blogs. You could also c) ban Brietbart since it's a blog with links to fascist and Nazi sympathisers, for lolz.
     
    SuperWatto likes this.
  21. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Well duh. :p
     
  22. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    You're right, what could I possibly know about running Senate discussions and sources? [face_plain]
     
    MrZAP likes this.
  23. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    It's "Breedbart".
     
    Ender Sai likes this.
  24. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    "Breebrt"
     
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  25. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    @Outsourced , BTW, that's not how you do signatures. An American might think JTS has early onset Alzheimer's.
     
    Bacon164 likes this.