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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Ahsoka has to die sometime, right?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by JediMasterKendo, Mar 8, 2009.

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  1. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 8, 2002
    I see this happening as well. There is no way she'll just quit and settle somewhere from all that's going on. I don't picture any Jedi doing this, especially someone like her, and at a time like this. It's possible something happens to her, without actually killing her, that takes her out of all this. She could have gotten marooned on some planet, or got lost in space somewhere without any chance of anyone helping her. There are a hundred different scenarios that could happen here. But, I think death is the more likely thing to happen to her, or the presumption of death because, again, it would be another reason, which would also help explain, why Anakin changes sides.

    They said the show will get darker, so I want to see it get darker. Killing Tani off can't get any darker, especially to the kiddies.
     
  2. WookieeWarrior9

    WookieeWarrior9 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2007
    It's always been my theory, long before the movie came out, that the Council will find them too wreckless (Anakin is a bad influence on her) and she'll be reassigned to another Jedi. It would be cool if Grevious or Dooku killed her, which would make Anakin's eagerness to kill them both in Ep III that much more meaningful. I could see her being killed by Ventress, Anakin killing her (again... lol), and giving in to his anger just a little bit more.
     
  3. Armchair_Admiral

    Armchair_Admiral Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    I really don't think Ashoka should die or turn to the Dark Side in the CWAS; kids that have grown to like Ashoka would really be disappointed if she dies, and making her turn dark would frankly be unoriginal considering her master will do the same thing later. I can see getting Ashoka getting reassigned however, and it doesn't have to happen just because Anakin's too reckless as a teacher, but rather Yoda thinking that it would be good for Anakin to learn how to let go (something alluded to in the movie). If Ashoka dies, she should go out trying to take on Vader and his Emperor years after Order 66.
     
  4. XCell

    XCell Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    If clones and older Jedi can die just like that, why not Ahsoka? I don't like this arguement from people saying kids won't like Ahsoka dying or turning dark. Maybe RotS should be remade so Anakin never turned to the dark side. After all we remember seeing him all happy and unselfish as a little boy, it might disappoint the kids watching, it might make them cry if they see that little Annie grows up to turn to the dark side, choke his wife, die a tragic death and all that.
    I expect the writers to let Ahsoka live through the series though, or be taken from Anakin, giving him more resentment toward the Council as shown in RotS. She could die, showing us in a way that the writers care more for the story, characters and timeline than the bland wishes of 10-year olds.. but I expect her to live. Ahsoka seems to be the writer's darling character. She's like a smug modern teen from our world that thinks Star Wars is just super awesome, and has won a contest and been given a chance to play in the universe, in addition granted super-Jedi skills and knowledge, and a chance to write her own dialogue.
     
  5. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    If Ahsoka Tani dies, it would add another tragic figure in Anakin's life, and make more sense of his downfall. Especially if it's something again that he dreams about, and the council holds him back forbidding him to intervene and save her. I would also expect Sidious would be involved in this, seeing that personal attachments are his future apprenctice's weakness, would somehow orchestrate this whole thing of killing her in assuring Skywalker's fall from grace. The seperation and death of this character is major in the continuity of the story, and Ahsoka's tale must be told in full before the series ends. In order to do this, there must be closure, and leaving her to fend off into the unknown wouldn't make sense to me considering her loyalty to her new master. There must be a better explanation to her disappearance than her just going off with a new master to fight the war. The loss of his apprentice could be something Obi-Wan Kenobi helps Anakin to overcome, but although her death was accepted, he knows Anakin still holds a grudge against the council for it, thus another reason why he is so easily converted to the dark side.
     
  6. Armchair_Admiral

    Armchair_Admiral Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 31, 2005
    The same reason why the Big Three live on and on in the EU; don't you remember the death threats made when Chewbacca was killed off in one of the novels? Character shields are a fact of life in most popular franchises, especially ones that aim to please all ages and not just older ones, and it's a fact of life that I've come to terms with.

    Except that we already knew beforehand that he would fall. That doesn't automatically justify that everyone that learns from him should do the same, just because. Afterall, Ashoka's early life was much different from Anakin's, and that alone would greatly reduce her chances of going dark.

    It's only your opinion that killing off characters means that writers care more for the story. Wars don't make one great, and character deaths do not automatically make a story great as well. Otherwise, character shields wouldn't exist in franchises.

    And because of your dislike of Ashoka, she should therefore die or turn to the Dark Side. I would be greatly disappointed if the writers caved in to the whims of nerd rage. [face_tired]
     
  7. koonfan

    koonfan Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2008
    =D==D==D=
    Really agree with you, Armchair_Admiral. Glad to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't buy into character deaths/darker=greater show. Don't get me (and to an extent, fellow optimists) wrong though, I'm sure we'd all agree that drama and development are essential, and that character deaths can be great moments if done right. I just don't think stories should depend heavily on them, that's all. We technically went through Empire Strikes Back without a single MAJOR character death (unless you count Han getting frozen), and everybody was fine with that...of course, that could be because ESB was the darkest of the OT, so my argument is voided. Maybe I should go with how nobody IMPORTANT died in The Two Towers from Lord of the Rings. :p

    I personally believe that if you go in expecting to hate something, most times you'll find something to hate, one way or another, actual or fabricated. Of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinions and their own method of how they choose to watch and evaluate things, so I can't really claim that optimistically going in looking for reasons to like Ahsoka is for everyone. :p

    Anyhoo, back on topic, there are quite a few theories going around, and plenty of work has gone into backing up quite a few of them.
    -Ahsoka dies or is presumed dead, but how and when varies. It leaves us with the problem of Revenge of the Sith, so people are leaning towards dying in the middle of the show or somewhere towards the end with a few seasons left so that Anakin can move on.
    -Ahsoka turns or is otherwise out of the order, possibly from being expelled, or out of choice. Some believe that Ahsoka wouldn't be the sort to stand idly by with a war going on, but who knows...
    -Ahsoka is just elsewhere at the time of Revenge of the Sith. Maybe she's elsewhere from her master, much like how she was sent to back up Luminara, or maybe she was reassigned to a more orthodox master. It's not unheard of for padawans to be reassigned or sent on missions separate from their masters, after all.

    It's a tough call, and it's also hard to tell where they plan to take the series with all the development they've put into it. If we can get a good indication from the second and third seasons on how dark they're willing to go, perhaps we can get an inkling of what they might do with Ahsoka. I seem to recall that the voice actors might actually know her fate, but you never know.
     
  8. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 6, 2005
    This cannot work. Ahsoka was never established during the time of ROTS and retconing this will ruin the timeline. I've always said that Ahsoka was made for TCW and therefore she should be ended in TCW. Dragging Ahsoka out of TCW and into established continuity will destroy it and create huge plot holes. She was never mentioned before in canon (Pre-2007), and retconing anything to make Ahsoka fit in will end in disastrous results.
     
  9. XCell

    XCell Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    No, I don't remember death threats because Chewie died. I'm not into the Solo kids era stuff. But anyway, Chewie died in the novels despite what fans wanted didn't he? I'm saying these 'character shields' can make things feel too predictable, too 'safe', not leaving much room for suspense, caving in to what people want and expect.
    Don't know where you got all that. I think you're missing my point, which is that the writers shouldn't have to settle for safe, mediocre stories to please sensitive kids and their parents. Where did I say Ahsoka should turn dark because she learns from Anakin? And her early life doesn't seem to make a difference, she's acted pretty reckless and smart-aleck like from the start.
    Sigh.. Again, where did I say killing characters automatically makes a better story? More serious, perhaps. And that's what a lot of people want for this show, after all it is a war and plenty characters have died already. I don't think Ahsoka should die or turn. Maybe I wasn't clear with what I wrote, but I'm saying if Ahsoka does die/turn it will show the writers are more daring, and aren't just aiming to please the kiddie demographic that wants her to live on and be a hero.
    Oh brother.. OK, I'll repeat: I don't think she should die or turn. Yes, I dislike Ahsoka, and yes having her die in the show does sound pretty good to me at times. But I think the best is that she is taken from Anakin by the Council. I think that would be the best for the story. So please cool it with the 'nerd rage' stuff :rolleyes:. Thanks.
     
  10. koonfan

    koonfan Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Well, I'm sure you're aware that people lobbying for seriousness and darkness do so with the intent of making better stories and the genuine belief that their suggestion would be a positive development. It kind of goes hand-in-hand, especially since it's not an obviously detrimental suggestion like 'there should be more Michael Bay explosions', or 'let's put the Wilhelm scream in every death'. :p

    To be honest, I believe that there's a time and place for things, seriousness among them. It's just a matter of finding the right moment. I'm sure there'll come a time when they can start asking serious questions or begin raising darker issues. True, there are shows that are serious from the start, and others than counterbalance the light with the dark (Avatar, I believe, pulls this off fairly well).

    But as we've seen from the (not necessarily even) mix of simple and complex stories in season 1, it looks like the crew of TCW are still getting used to handling all these things in their show. They've got to think about the kids, the fans, the continuity, the 'feel of Star Wars', the stuff that is usually involved in animated programs, where the story's headed in the future...There are a lot of fronts for them to deliver on, so I guess they decided to (hopefully) progress in the logical direction. Start off with easy-to-digest things, then later they can take things up a notch.

    Not to write off seriousness, or rather, taking the quality seriously, though. It's certainly a very major part of writing, especially when you're dealing with a war, as you said. It's just that there are various options for making it 'serious', some of them more subtle or gradual than having Ahsoka or major characters die. Just as bringing up 'hated' characters is enough to send some users into rants, it works the other way round when even a measured expression of distaste can get the other side pointing fingers. [face_worried]

    Well, you're right there about conclusion-jumping, so I'm sorry if I jumped on the wagon there somewhat. Yes, I am aware you're not addressing me, but all the same I still feel partly responsible. [face_peace] :)
    Still, with how strong the opinions regarding Ahsoka can get in their expression (meaning, people take the time to write out coherent and substantial sentences and paragraphs on why they dislike her, her flaws as a character or addition, etc., and that some of these seem to have some venom in them), it's also an easy (if misguided/incorrect) conclusion/inference people would make that anti-Ahsoka users simply want her to die to correct the story from a nerd-rage perspective, rather than from a dramatic gravitas perspective. And even if they're speaking both as a nerd and as a concerned viewer, odds are, the subjective nerd aspect would get a louder voice. :p

    Still, it's an interesting point you brought up about Chewie's death. I guess it's worth wondering about what the show producers are going to do in terms of 'character politics'. Is the fanbase strong? Do they give them what they want? Is it in line with what they've got? Ah well, I'm just waiting, seeing and speculating.

    With my self-indulgent explana
     
  11. Armchair_Admiral

    Armchair_Admiral Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 31, 2005
    Actually, the reason Chewie died was because the oh-so brilliant geniuses at Del Rey who came up with the New Jedi Order series wanted to kill off someone more important instead like Luke (which was vetoed by LFL), merely to give more publicity to the NJO series rather than for any meaningful storytelling purpose. Such blatant pandering always annoys me whenever it happens. In any event, I don't generally approve of Del Rey's take on the SW franchise as the doom and gloom (among other stupid things) that festers throughout their post-ROTJ novels is totally at odds with the style and feel established by Lucas's movies.

    It's only your assumption that stories where main characters don't get killed off are safe and mediocre. TESB was the darkest film of the OT, yet nobody important died in it at all..... or turned to the Dark Side for that matter. If TESB accomplished what it did without killing off established characters or making them turn evil, then so can the CWAS.

    As for recklessness and being a smart-aleck, those don't automatically lead to the Dark Side. However, excessive attachment does, which Ashoka lacks due to her Temple upbringing... but Anakin has.

    I fail to see what's so wrong about letting her live on and be a hero. The Big Three all accomplished the same thing a generation or two ago, so why not Ashoka? Personally, I think inspiring kids to be heroes themselves (or at least apply those Jedi fortune cookies in their lives) is infinitely more important than satisfying the demands of older fans. I can see Ashoka getting reassigned or maybe even losing a hand or limb, but nothing worse than those.
     
  12. darth_ral

    darth_ral Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Someone may have said this already, there are a lot of posts here and I havent read them all yet, but I think it would be really interesting if she survives the initial Order 66 attack, and years down the line as Vader is finishing the Jedi Purge, he has to fight his own apprentice, with a big reveal kind of moment where his helmet is knocked off or something because she instinctively knows his moves, then realizing it is Anakin....just a though, could be interesting if done well....
     
  13. CloneUncleOwen

    CloneUncleOwen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2009
    But I thought Ahsoka has already been shown to have survived 66. Isn't that her dancing with Oola in front
    of Jabba the Hut in the Hut palace (ROTJ)? I mean sure, she's using an alias and put on 250lbs...
     
  14. koonfan

    koonfan Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2008
    To quote Palpatine, good and evil are a point of view. And to quote Gandalf, even the very wise can't see all ends. :p

    It's hard to personally tell what's REALLY pandering, and what's a genuinely good addition, though of course there are times where the pandering is blatant.
    Obviously, you're going to like or find reasons to like things which appeal to you, but what if it's actually pandering by giving people more of what's popular? But if they write for an audience you're at odds with, even if it's a perfectly normal decision with good development, you're still very likely to think they're pandering to certain tastes.

    I do admit that I tend to lean towards stories that don't go 'dark', though I can appreciate good drama or themes. Still, I am aware that Star Wars is capable of supporting a wide variety of stories, and each offers something valuable to the whole. I just think Star Wars should be more about adventure and heroism (albeit tempered with good drama), rather than 'dark times...every time, every era! If you've got a heroic victory, we'll smash it to bits or at least turn it Phyrric!'

    That last comment was a joke. :p
     
  15. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Seriously, nobody thinks Ahsoka will just go MIA? I really think that too much has been put into this character for them to kill her off. So far, deaths in the Clone Wars series have been mostly the likes of Nahdar Vebb or Argyus....characters that, while interesting, were introduced and then killed off. Yes three seasons later things will definitely change, but I don't think it'll get to the point where they kill off Ahsoka. Stranded on a planet, frozen in carbonite....maybe. But killed off? No.
     
  16. XCell

    XCell Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    No it isn't, and I didn't say that.
    I can agree with that. Although, ESB was one movie, and just a few hours long. TCW is planned to be.. what, one hundred episodes? And like I said, it's all happening during a war.
    Luke's attachment to his father didn't automatically turn him to the dark side. And many would say Ahsoka is attached to Anakin. Even if she was raised in the Temple, it's hardly helped her act more like a proper Jedi, but we don't know much about her backstory or her weaknesses at this point. I think she acts like she wasn't raised among the Jedi, but rather trained somewhere else by some unorthodox Jedi who allowed her more freedom and less discipline.. (And then she gets Anakin as a teacher.)
    I didn't say it was wrong. Inspiring kids is one thing, just feeding them what they want because they're the money-making demographic, and whether or not it would make a good conclusion, or much sense, is another. And nothing wrong with satisfying old fans either.
    I think having Ahsoka as just 'being away' on a mission during RotS sounds very hackey. But this show has already given Anakin a Padawan, one who's never mentioned anywhere before.. so I could see that actually being the reason for her absence in RotS.
     
  17. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    I don't see her getting killed off. If she dies she'd have to die soon in my opinion such that Anakin doesn't become too attached to her. If she dies at the very end of the show, you'd think Anakin would still be reeling from the emotional blow by the time of ROTS, and there is no evidence that he is in any kind of turmoil at the beginning of that film.

    But at that rate, what would be the point of having introduced her in the first place? Anakin was obsessed with saving Padme in ROTS and tells Padme that he won't let her die like Shmi. If Ahsoka - someone Anakin was responsible for teaching and watching out for - died while under his care you'd think that he's be a little more obsessed with not having a repeat of that incident. You'd also think that if he failed in his duties that he wouldn't be expecting to be made a Master any time soon, however he has such hopes in ROTS.

    However, in ROTS Anakin is frustrated with the Council continuing to "hold him back." If the Council reassigns Ahsoka or expels her, then that would be consistent with Anakin feeling frustrated with the Council. If, in an unprecedented instance, the Council grants Ahsoka the rank of Master at such a young age, that still would be consistent with ROTS as Anakin's quite full of himself, and hypothetically if his pupil turns out to be a star it might inflate his ego as he expects to be rewarded for being such a great teacher.

    There are surely other outcomes for the Ahsoka character other than dying. I figure she'll have to at least survive up until Order 66, because I don't see her dying before ROTS being consistent with Anakin's personality in that movie.
     
  18. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Die sometime? Heh. Better had she never been introduced. I'm not a particularly huge fan of this absurd idea that to appeal to kids you need to have a major character be the same age as them. Especially when she's a Sue. The single episode where she messes up does not rectify this, before someone tells me it does.

    If they wanted to have an uber-Padawan kiddy, they should set this series between TPM and AotC and focused on the growing skills of Anakin Skywalker. It's not like the Clone Wars are particularly enthralling as a conflict -- especially when everyone is just a pawn in Darth Sidious' elaborate game of Firetrap.
     
  19. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    One word: Sarlacc.[face_devil]

    EDIT: You know what would be great for continuity, though? A hyperspace collision. Han Solo's little speech in ANH would carry a bit more weight if we actually saw an important character never come back from a hyperspace jump once in a while. It's like the transporter accident in Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
     
  20. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I still don't see why there's so much hate for Ahsoka. I find her to be somewhat endearing as a character, and she's not excessively obnoxious or whiny that it takes away from any of the episode plots. As for her surviving Ventress and Grievous....it's not like these two so-called Jedi killers mow through Force-users on a daily basis and leave no one alive. Not to mention that having a character shield is perfectly reasonable for Ahsoka at this point in the series.
     
  21. CaptainYossarian

    CaptainYossarian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2003

    Does that need to be given more weight though? It was just Han explaining the basics of hyperspace travel to someone who apparently didn't know and he was annoyed at being rushed. Ordinarily it surely wouldn't be much of an issue because getting the precise calculations wouldn't be a problem since you wouldn't be rushing. It would surely be the same as an airline pilot remembering not to fly into a mountain. It's so standard that it doesn't cause problems most of the time. They also kind of did have hyperspace problems in the episode Jedi Crash though where not setting the proper co-ordinates led to the ship almost flying into a star.

    And also, wouldn't "Ahsoka died in a hyperspace collision" be a bit too much like "Note: Poochie died on the way back to his home planet"?
     
  22. ZanderSolo

    ZanderSolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2007
    This has been my personal canon since Siri Tachi was a main character in JA #9.

    Mara is supposedly younger than Luke, but if she does not know her birth parents, how does she know her age? When your young you believe what people tell you, and Palpatine told her whatever he wished to mend her to become his Hand, probably including her age.
     
  23. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    You could work it into the plot and actually show it, though. For example, you could have Bane tamper with the navicomputer on her ship or something. Padawan go boom.
     
  24. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    I would like to visually see her body if she dies. It would make her death a lot more tragic for Anakin and possibly the viewers. :p
     
  25. XCell

    XCell Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    If Ahsoka did die, it would probably be the most highest rated episode of all. I don't mean that in a grim way, but just think: whether you like or dislike Ahsoka, actually seeing the episode where she dies wouldn't be something to miss would it? I'm thinking it would one of the last episodes in the series, if not the final.
     
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