Ahsoka has to die sometime, right?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by JediMasterKendo, Mar 8, 2009.

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  1. MarkVader1991 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2010
    star 3
    There is no doubt in my mind that if TFU2 is a financial success we can expect a TFU3. Starkiller will probably be around for as long as he is profitable. Who knows, it could be the same for Ahsoka. But Ahsoka is a canon issue you say? Well consider this...

    So now we have a guy who was Darth Vader's ?secret apprentice?. Who is he seriously supposed to be a secret from exactly? Palpatine knew about him, the rebel alliance leaders knew about him and now it appears that even Yoda knew about him. If he hadn't been a secret apprentice would anything in the story have actually changed? It seems they just said ?secret apprentice? to appease continuity nerds, but really they shouldn't have even bothered because all the major players knew about him. HIS FAMILY CREST IS THE REBEL ALLIANCE SYMBOL!!

    Then this guy goes and founds the rebel alliance, saves the alliance leaders, some of them twice, pulls a Star Destroyer out of the sky and completely mops the floor with the dark lord of Sith. Now it turns out he has been cloned. Really makes you wonder why they even bothered with the ?Emperor's Hand? if they can just produce clones of a guy who is more powerful than Vader and can pluck star destroyers from the sky.

    None of this is mentioned in the material set later, inculding the OT.:eek:

    The argument that Ahsoka has to die because she is a ?canon contradiction? loses much of its weight in light of this stuff, which is canon whether people consider it so or not. Ahsoka is a minor issue compared to this.
  2. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9
    When you put it that way, yeah she is. Is she more well known than Starkiller though? From a casual standpoint I mean. I think more people, though I could be wrong, know more of the story of Ahsoka than of Starkiller. Given TCW covers a larger demographic.

    That is pretty funny though about the "secret apprentice" thing, though. chances are there will be a story or future story as to why there isn't an entire squad of Starkillers. BTW, did you see the Galen clone where they spliced his DNA with Darth Maul? It's called "Maulkiller." I saw it on the Wook.
  3. MarkVader1991 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2010
    star 3
    True that could be one factor. Because TCW is more mainstream whenever it makes a mistake everyone notices. I also believe a lot of it just comes down to favouritism though. Because a lot of people like Starkiller they are more willing to overlook the potential problems for the sake of his story. People will not give Ahsoka that leeway because people don't like her, not because it is harder for them to get their heads around the canon problems.

    I would mention these things on TFU board, but people are very passionate about Starkiller.

    Darth Maul is another example of a character who was originally meant to die only to come back later. There is also that story in which Palpatine is cloned and Luke turns to the darkside. What was the point of that story, other that totally detracting from ROTJ?
  4. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9
    At first, I didn't like Ahsoka as well, but her character has grown on me and now I have concern about her fate. I like both characters, while they don't hold anything to Han Solo and Luke in my book, I still do enjoy them.


    The Palpatine clone thing doesn't bother me that much because the prolonging of one's life was one of Palpatine's goals as a Sith Lord and used it as a recruitment tool on Anakin, so it has a place in the over-all-scheme. The Darth Maul story I can take or leave, it is a little unnescessary.
  5. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    The Maul thing didn't bother me since he was brought back just so he could fight Vader. Fannish though that may be, it was entertaining enough that I thought it was justified.
  6. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9

    It was cool. I thought it was, anyway. But in the grand scheme of the entire universe and Darth Vader story, it could have never happened and no one would have cared. There would be the "what if's," but it wouldn't affect the story one way or the other. Originally, that story was thought to be non-canon.
  7. XCell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    I don't think Ahsoka has to die, and I don't know much about Starkiller, but besides the fact that he's a video game character, and you'd probably expect more sense and less plot holes in a television series and movie than a video game, isn't there a difference because he is supposed to be secret? I think Ahsoka not showing up/being mentioned in RotS brings more attention to itself than Starkiller not being anywhere in the OT, because the story in the film is largely about Anakin and his attachments to people he's close to, one of which would be Ahsoka.

  8. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9
    Marek is supposed to be a secret, but he's not. Not to anybody in the story like Palpatine and Yoda. A number of reasons as to why Marek isn't in the OT can be used, and they wouldn't have the restrictions that there are with Ahsoka. But like I said, the Ahsoka story can become very confusing if she isn't dead by ROTS, or at least by Order 66.
  9. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    The arguement put forward by those who solely support this cartoon but don't care for the rest of the universe is as equally frustrating as that of someone claiming the show is bad with out ever having watched it. When someone posts that things like the changes to Mandalore or the ressurection of Eeth Koth doesn't contradict then existing canon, I'm sorry but thats just flat out wrong.

    These people are blindly defending the cartoon tring to pretend that nothing happened that should upset anyone in regards to canon. Canon changes, and has been changed by this show, lets not pretend it hasn't. If you don't care thats one thing, if you like the take the Clone Wars has over the other sources there is nothing wrong with that, but lets try not to insult fans that like the comics and novels, fans that have disected and studied them for many years, by making claims about the changes that are not true.

    Everything can and will be rewritten to fit, including however Ahsoka fits into the whole picture. Deal with it, just don't pretend a giant cube metropolis smack dab in the middle of Mandalore, one that wasn't there before, isn't a change to canon - because it is.
  10. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Fair point. But let´s leave the whole canon debate to the Canon and Continuity thread, all right?
  11. LukeTano Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2009
    star 3
    Read this out and you'll see it's on topic:

    One, if Anakin lost both his mother and Ahsoka to death, wouldn't he immediately agree with Palpatine's proposal to become his apprentice, rather than ratting him out to Mace? After all, Mace and Anakin weren't on good terms, but Palpatine was a mentor to Anakin second only to perhaps Obi-wan.

    Also, Anakin has another problem besides the possibility of losing Padmé. Even if he can save Padmé, what about the baby, which by the way later turns out to be twins? He may be able to his his marriage to Padmé but he can't hide his marriage to Padmé and the baby for very long. It seems possible Obi-wan might be on to one of the two things already, as Anakin saw Obi-wan in one of his nightmares. Anyway, it'd only be a matter of time before the two are found out and Padmé is fired from the Senate and he'd be expelled from the Order. Having Ahsoka be expelled would give him that much more fear to the situation, further pushing him to cooperate so he can be the most powerful Jedi ever, without being expelled, and he is easily convinced that the only way to save Padmé and perhaps the "baby" too, and their careers, is to help get ride of the Jedi and get rid of the Republic and make it an Empire, especially as Anakin, like Dooku, and some others, must surely notice corruption in the Republic, and decides that Palpatine would make a good Emperor. Also, he's kinda power hungry, not terribly obvious, but obvious enough, and all that Palpatine promises him seems to be likely to solve all his problems.

    Unfortunately for Anakin, Padmé dies, which by the way might have been part of Palpatine's plan all along as attachment to Padmé might lead to Anakin showing mercy, something forbidden for a Sith.

    So the second problem would be compounded if Ahsoka has been expelled, the and Anakin's chance of becoming the most powerful Jedi ever is in jeopardy from his pretty much eminent expulsion once the "baby" is born. That he lost an apprentice, possibly due to circumstances he thought unfair, would foil his chances of being a Master, would put him at odds with the Council, an area needing to be developed before ROTS.

    That way Ahsoka can live, be expelled, and further pull Anakin toward the Dark Side. Sounds like a good theory.

    Anyway, I'm beginning to think that Mace merely doesn't trust Anakin with spying on Palpatine and all that as he most likely has figured out how much reverence Anakin has for Palpatine and fears Anakin might defy him and not spy or even tell Palpatine that the Council told him to spy on him, or, his worst fear, take Palpatine's side, the last one does come true.

    This theory would make sense when Anakin tells Mace that Palpatine is a Sith Lord, and Mace says that if he's right, then he'll have gained his trust. Perhaps it means that if Anakin is right and has told on Palpatine, and Palpatine's really a Sith, then Anakin's one the side of the Jedi and not Palpatine. Also, earlier Mace said he didn't like Anakin and Palpatine being together. Mace and Yoda agreed that the Senate should be watched as Dooku said Sidious was in control of the Senate, which would, with Palpatine's increasing power, kinda point toward him, if not as a Sith, at least as a likely conspirator with the Sith, so Mace doesn't trust Palpatine, and Anakin is close to Palaptine and he fears Anakin could be swayed easily.

    Of course, Mace could simply suspect Anakin of hiding something, w
  12. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Seconded.
  14. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9

    [face_hypnotized]

    I would agree, but I forgot where I was after I read it.
  15. Darth-Dogfish-Head Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2004
    star 4
    For the most part I really enjoy the character of Ahsoka but I would be disappointed if we do not see her death in the Clone Wars cartoon. We'd have the opportunity see the story arc and how it affects Anakin and possibly tie it into something that happens later in the films (similar to how Anakin's decision to help Palpatine in his fight with Mace added an entirely new dimension to the scene in ROTJ when he watches the Emperor nearly kill Luke with lightning, making it a much more powerful scene). No idea what that may be, but I'd love to have something like that happen. It would undoubtedly add even more emotion and meaning to Anakin killing the younglings in the Jedi Temple. Although it would be terribly sad to see such a young character perish in the show, I have no doubt that Filoni and crew would do it right and she would not go out like a punk. Initially I liked the idea of cg'ing her into the Shaak Ti deleted scene, but that would not be enough for me, I want to see Anakin react to it and how it changes him. Another example of someone he couldn't save that pushes him further down the path to the dark side.
  16. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9

    I don't know, I kinda like the idea of him in the Jedi temple walking past the clones as they battle the Jedi on hand, just observing the carnage up to his "visit" to the younglings. It adds a certain degree of "Vader" to him. Similair to the beginning of ANH when after the stormtroopers engage the Tantive IV troops, he comes walking in after the damage was done. Giving him that "bad guy" look.

    Anyway, CG'ing Shaak Ti into Ahsoka........not a bad idea, not a great idea, but not bad. I can't see it happening. Like I said above, the image of that scene I get is a classic(to me, anyway), so ultimately I don't like it more than I like it.
  17. MarkVader1991 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2010
    star 3
    Like I said Starkiller is supposed to be secret, but he really, really isn't. Starkiller also occupies the exact same position in regards to Vader as Ahsoka did, which means he is every bit as relevant to Vader?s story as Ahsoka is. Vader apparently cares about him enough to have him cloned. Starkiller also changed the fate of the universe, in a sense he is responsible for how the events of the OT turned out the way they did. Nothing Ahsoka has done is of any relevance to ROTS.

    If by the end of TCW in turns out Ahsoka's family crest is what the Imperial symbol is based on, I'll agree with you, but if not, to say that Ahsoka is a bigger contradiction, or even the same level of contradiction as Starkiller, is quite inaccurate.[face_coffee]

    I am not discussing all the changes, I am discussing the one this thread was created to deal with. To prove a point I was compairing it to other, very similar changes. I agree with what you say.
  18. XCell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    Uh, I don't see how cloning someone shows you care for them?.. And since this is Vader, I doubt he cares much about his 'secret apprentice' as he does for Ahsoka, and I also doubt Starkiller fits some kind of little brother/son role for him.

    RotS deals with Anakin and his attachments rather specifically. And again, this is a video game character. Personally, I don't need more reasoning than that. Since this is a television series, I think Ahsoka's absence is more.. relevant.
  19. JediMaster1511 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2010
    star 9
    Ahsoka does hold more relevance from that standpoint, Yes. But I think Starkiller is just as relevant to the overall Anakin/Vader story. Ahsoka is more important because as it stands, she has more impact on ROTS than Marek has on the OT.

  20. MarkVader1991 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2010
    star 3
    You are aware he also has a novel and a comic right? Or is that branch of media irrelevant too?
  21. XCell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    ^Nope. I thought he was first created in a video game though? I still think it's less relevant, and a different kind of scenario compared to this TV series.

    And here's something I've noticed, and correct me if I'm wrong, but in two seasons this show (and movie), I don't remember there being mention anywhere that Ahsoka is a Togruta. It's one of those things in TCW I find it kind of odd. They can't have subtitles for alien languages, but with 40 episodes they don't mention the species of the main kid protagonist even once?

    It's just a little thing, but I wonder why it wouldn't be slipped in, especially when she was first introduced. There are probably lots of kids (and parents) wondering what the heck Ahsoka is.. and why she wears that striped hat.
  22. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    Only in the TCW novels.
  23. TheMacUnleashed Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2009
    star 4
    Although this is probably more "Official Ahsoka Discussion Thread" material, I have to agree with you. I wish that they did do more to distinguish Ahsoka from a human.

    (incidentally, that's one of the reasons that I'm not overly fond of Eckstein's voice: it doesn't sound nearly as foreign as I would expect a different species' voice to sound.)
  24. XCell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2004
    star 4
    Ha, you're right. Guess I just plain forgot this was the 'Ahsoka has to die' thread.:p
  25. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    The name of this thread has a negative connotation. Please rename it to "Ahsoka should be able to survive beyond Order 66, right?"
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