Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Darth Valkyrus, Nov 6, 2013.
Of the list, non-Sith Dark Jedi freelancer seems the most appealing.
Perhaps if Ahsoka comes back in Rebels Vader does not try to "recruit" Ahsoka but is just full of hate towards her as he was towards Obi Wan. By ROTS his rationale is pretty twisted "You are trying to turn her against me!", "You brought him here to kill me!". Maybe he would just try to get rid of her because she "betrayed" him (from Vader's point of view, of course).
I do not want to see Ahsoka presenting any sort of challenge to Vader. If they fight (and to be clear I'd rather they don't), I hope he punks her within the first two seconds. Seeing her take his limbs off would annoy me as much as seeing her decapitate four people at once.
As far as Vader pretending to be conflicted and asking for help--as sinister and twisted as that would be, I don't see Anakin or Vader as having the skills to fake it. They both basically wear their emotions on their sleeves and are very much WYSIWYG.
You'd still be relying very heavily on outside sources. The problem isn't even entirely knowing who she is, I would certainly know who she is, but it would really feel disjointed from the rest of the show. And this is the grand finale of that character's arc. I'd honestly be thinking "Why was this here of all places". A cameo is fan service, true, but it's usually harmless fan service, it doesn't affect the story at present or the character that is making the cameo.
It's a good story idea, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a story arc like that, but I think it would deserve a bit more dedication than to be slapped on the end of a season of Rebels. A book or animated TV movie perhaps, or maybe even a video game, but not just to throw her in there like she just walked in from a different show.
Fair enough. All I say is if this is her dramatic end, devote some time to her first, if you don't want to devote time to her don't make it her dramatic end but something far more low key.What your proposing however is some sort of weird middle ground where she's too pivotal and has too much screen-time to be a cameo but comes and goes so fast, out of nowhere, in a show where she was never seen before and she hasn't really any sort of relevance to afterwards.
Big Lipped Alligator Moment.
I certainly think she deserves a little better treatment than to be the Rebels version of Nahdar Vebb.
I see where you're coming from, but I still see it differently. Your concerns, I think, would ring more true if Rebels were viewed in a vacuum. But Star Wars is nothing if not one big continuity, yes?
I understand the need to put time in to a character before a big payoff, but Tano's already had five years of time devoted to her, and for the vast majority of the audience, already familiar with, and invested in, her story up to this point, I believe no further build-up is required. I can't imagine there's any reason to think that having Ahsoka just show up in one major arc of Rebels would lessen the dramatic impact for these folks.
For those who are coming in cold (the very slimmest percentage of the show's audience, I'd wager, but still), I feel that just some exposition detailing that this young woman used to have a history with Anakin will be enough to allow them to follow the proceedings. If done correctly, an hour's-worth of time with Tano, over the course of three episodes, ought to be enough screen time to make it work dramatically. And if they want to learn more, there's five season's worth of TCW at the ready.
Consider Ben Kenobi. For those who watch young Obi-Wan's adventures throughout the PT, there's no question that the time put in with the character lends extra weight to the scenes where Ben later transforms into the Force.
That said, there's no denying that they who come in cold, by experiencing the OT first (as everyone did in the beginning), still feel the loss as important and dramatic, even without more than an hour's-worth of familiarity with the character. His "death" still works terrifically enough.
The important thing, I think, would be making sure that having Tano's end come at the hands of Vader has a lasting effect on the show (something that TCW wasn't so hot on). Vader should feel the impact, of course, but the crew of the Ghost should learn something from it, too (maybe something like learning from A.T. that Vader was once a Jedi can become important later for the rebels).
I am invested in that character. The only way I think I'd be ok with something like that would be if it was the very first thing that happened in the show. If the show was opening with the Ahsoka Tano arc and then switched over to the ghost crew, fine. Coming straight off TCW I could accept that... maybe.
If Disney want to give Ahsoka a break for now fine with me. I'm content with what we got from her for now. The Ahsoka question has come up on all the Star Wars Rebel's interviews/panels I've seen/heard/read up until this point so maybe they'll throw us a bone, but I'd personally rather her just have a small cameo than a single death arc. Hell, I'd rather she just not show up at all. I'd rather have cake later than crumbs now.
Ben Kenobi had almost as much screen-time in the movie as Luke up to that point. He made sense in the context of the story and his death had major impact on the main character. It'd be more like if he and Luke picked up a hitchhiker on the way to Mos Eisley and the story followed this hitchhiker for 15mins before he died a great dramatic death somehow and then we got back to the actual plot of the movie. Either the hitchhiker should have had a bigger role in the story, or he should just have been one of the background guys in the cantina or he shouldn't have been there at all.
Another poll someone should add is, "Do you want to see Ahsoka die in Rebels?" I'd be interested in seeing those results.
What if she goes straight for Palps instead of Vader...
Manages to either fight or sneak her way (MGS style) into his throne room or some such place and then engages him.
She gets her @$$ kicked. As a last ditch tactic, finding herself against an outer-hull bulkhead of the starship they happen to be on, she gives Palps a cutting remark about how the fear-filled Sith would never understand a true Jedi's resolve blah blah, and then she drops the money line... "Old fool, only now, at the end, do you understand!" before plunging her lightsaber through the hull behind her and running it in a circle. The objective being to open the room to space, and blow both of them out into the hard vacuum, thus taking down Palps while also dying a sacrificial death herself.
Ahsoka who is right at the hole is blown out immediately. Palps grabs onto some metal bar or something and flaps in the wind, about to lose his grip, when Vader suddenly comes in through a far door, yanks Palps over with the Force, and activates a forcefield closing off that part of the ship. Thus Ahsoka died in an ultimately pointless sacrifice, since Palpatine survived.
Your point is well said.
And it makes me think I should clarify. When I said "I'd like to see Tano score any number of hits on Vader," I misspoke. It sounds like I was saying she could hack Vader to pieces, scoring hit upon hit. My meaning was that I could see Tano being responsible for a single injury to Vader, but coming from any number of the plethora of injury options available. He's suffered so many injuries that there's a laundry list of potential options available to any of Vader's opponents. Tano could conceivably take the classic route and take a hand. She could take an arm all the way to the shoulder. There's still the question of the apparent injury to Vader's spinal cord to account for, too.
Like you, when faced with the thought of a duel between the two, my instinct is to have Vader utterly consume Tano (akin to his final assault on Luke at Bespin). But for reasons of theatricality and drama, I'd expect this imaginary arc to finish on a bit of a grand scale. As I alluded to, thanks to familiarity, I could justify Ahsoka holding her own for a time, but ultimately, there should be no question who is the victor.
Oh, and my "Anakin's appeal"? That was really an off-the-cuff, admittedly clumsy idea meant to inject some sort of surprise into the mix, but really, there's no reason such a duel cannot simply end with a proper stab through the heart or beheading, minus any underhanded, Sithly tricks. I certainly don't mean to imply that Vader could only win by resorting to such measures.
Really, before Valkyrus asked, other than maybe a precarious, Cloud City-type setting, I hadn't given the question of "how" all that much thought. Only that I feel the ramifications of having Vader kill Tano would be beneficial to the franchise.
I didn't think you meant that, and the idea would actually be great with any other personality, I just don't think Anakin/Vader is capable of masking his true feelings long enough to pull it off.
- Tano could, over the course of a three-episode arc, have even more screen time than that.
- Tano dying at the hands of Vader would have a meaningful impact on a main character: Darth Vader. And if handled right, the good guys, too.
- Context. Rebels will follow the crew of the Ghost, certainly. Their adventures will help shape the context of the series, yes. Almost certainly, so will Darth Vader. Let us not forget the impact such an encounter could mean for his character, as well.
Just as certainly, there will be other important characters who will come along, introduced at any point throughout the run of the series. The fact that these characters haven't been there from the pilot episode, or had numerous appearances under their belt, should by no means suggest that their capacity to have a meaningful, impactful resonance to the story as a whole is in any way compromised. This type of thing happens all the time (particularly in television).
Again, I understand your point and I can sympathize that something like this isn't the manner you'd like to see Tano utilized. That's your opinion and that's great. There are any number of ways I'd like to see Ahsoka Tano die - it doesn't have to be mine. We can kill her off your way.
I'm having some fun here, obviously. My only point is not really that it has to work "my" way. Only that it conceivably could.
You're right, of course. While I don't think it's impossible, it's not at all in keeping with the Vaderkin we know. Like I said, "clumsy" of me.
I'd make it myself, but I have lockiphobia -a fear of having my posts locked.
So, I was wondering whether people wanted to see Ahsoka die. Apologies if this is Flame-War bait, or whatever, feel free to lock if necessary. If you have the time, add details in how or why.
I don't want to see Ahsoka at all in Rebels, so no.
Having said that, with Filoni keeping in contact with Ashley, and the love of the character among kids, Filoni's love of the character, and just with how much it probably helped to have Ashley as a face for the series as a woman that loves Star Wars and as a champion arguing that it's OK for girls to be into Star Wars too (I wasn't aware that this was an issue until she started talking about girls being bullied for liking "boy stuff.") She seems very much Disney compatible.
Basically... I pretty much think it's inevitable that she shows back up in Rebels. But I don't want her to.
Filoni wanted a non-death ending for her in TCW, Lucas wanted to kill her off, cancellation left us with an unintentionally OK ending for the character of her leaving the Order, and I don't want that unintentional ending for TCW to create a loophole by which she gets to survive Order 66 and then go right back to being a Jedi fighting for the Rebels.
Let her arc end with her leaving the Jedi and don't undo that decision in Rebels.
I'd rather she not show up at all.
And as much as I don't like her, I don't think a death scene for her would be satisfying.
Actually, if they do use her, which I'd prefer they didn't at all, that's exactly what I'd like to see.
I agree with her not needing to show up in any sense. Nothing good will come from it. From there, her ending in TCW was the best I could see for the character, any kind of death also wouldn't add anything good.
Like I said in the other thread for me it would depend on how it was handled. If she shows up just to be killed I probably wouldn't be happy. I'd rather she just no show up at all as opposed to that.
Implying she'll show up at all. I'm still holding out that she's dropped like a deformed Spartan baby.
Aaahhhsoooookaaaa threeeaaaaadsssssss!!!!!! Uuuuunnnnliiiiimiiiiited Aaahhhhssssooookaaaaa threeeeeeeeeaaaaaaadsssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!
(I'm not complaining)
If, done right than yes
She can't go back to being a Jedi if the Jedi institution is no more. Ahsoka as a disenfranchised force user is more likely.
Not to mention Rebels takes place so far out from TCW that she'll be like 30 years old anyway. She's not necessarily an ingredient for seamless continuity.
The way I see it, we'll get some Ahsoka-based two-parter two or three seasons in to the show or something random like that, and never see her again.
(because she'll die)
The issue of whether or not she'd be a Jedi is a semantics issue, one that the movies themselves were inconsistent on in that Obi-Wan used the past tense in ANH to refer to himself as a Jedi ("I was once a Jedi Knight, same as your father"). However, when Yoda is dying he tells Luke that once he is gone, Luke will be the last of the Jedi.
Plus it's been suggested that we will see some kind of Jedi presence in Rebels. It doesn't matter that they have been chased from Coruscant and are being purged from the galaxy, some of them still see themselves as Jedi, and I don't want Ahsoka picking that torch back up after how TCW ended.
Maybe Vader does have a special not-broken-even-as-Vader bond with her, and Palps realizes ths, captures Ahsoka, and then exploits this to punish him. Every time Vader screws up, Palpatine kills Ahsoka. He has a stack of clone Ahsokas on hand, when he kills one he essence transfers her into a clone body and then keeps her locked up in a special Jedi-proof cell ready for the next time Vader fails him.
Joking aside, I'd be OK with either an Ahsoka death in Rebels or an Ahsoka survival into the OT era, as long as they were written and made well.
If they were horribly done, both would suck majorly. Although a badly done survival would likely be worse than a badly done death, due to its greater potential to take a **** on the continuity of the OT.