Full Series Ahsoka in Rebels

No of course but why bother with a vision? He can speak directly to Ezra and even to Kanan.

 

Leads only to the question as to why Yoda would send Ezra, Kanan, and Ahsoka to Malachor in the first place. What good could he have possibly figured would come of it? And since this is the Ahsoka thread, I'm only interested in what it meant for her.

 

Because Malachor, Maul and the Kyber Crystal Battlestation were about to be discovered. Eighth Brother had arrived on Malachor before Ahsoka and the others. Yoda sends them there to keep the Kyber Crystal Battlestation out of the hands of both Maul and the Empire.

We don't know that he can. Yoda never appears to Kanan in person, presumably because his abilities are not that advanced. He's able to appear to Ezra in person, because Ezra is very strong with the Force. Whereas Ahsoka has abandoned the Jedi Path. It's why she can't open the Temple and why Yoda can only appear to her for single moment at the end. These Force Visions are not a precise science, it's not like turning on a holocomm and talking to someone directly.

 

Irrelevant. She has abandoned the Jedi path, not her connection to the Force and not her skills with it. And IIRC, she doesn't say she CAN'T open the temple, just that it would be preferable for Kanan and Ezra to open it. As for Yoda not appearing sooner to Ahsoka, I think it has more to do with the fact that he was too busy appearing to Ezra.

The way Vader speaks to Ahsoka in her vision doesn't make it look like it comes from Yoda. It sounds more like a manifestation of some guilt she would be feeling deep down for not being there to keep Anakin from falling to the Dark Side, if she's in denial over Vader's identity, deep down she knows. Much like when Yoda had a vision in which he saw Ahsoka dying in season six of TCW. Filoni said himself that it was a manifestation of his own guilt over what the Council did to her.

On that much I agree.

 

It is possible that Ahsoka's vision in the Lothal Temple is a manifestation of her own feelings. In fact that is the more likely explanation. However, given that Ezra and Kanan's visions were a direct product of Yoda's influence, I am inclined to give him at least some credit for Ahsoka's vision as well.

 

Why would Yoda direct a vision to Ahsoka suggesting she was somewhat indirectly responsible for what Anakin had become?

 

Tough love. The vision was Yoda trying to get Ahsoka to accept the truth, partially so that she would know this should she face him. Showing her what he believed Vader's point of view might be would be a part of that preparation. I don't think Yoda himself would agree with the sentiment that she was somehow indirectly responsible for his fall.

 

What he expected her to do with the truth is anyone's guess. He commanded Luke to kill his father outright; Luke took it upon himself to try and convert him. No one told Ahsoka what to do.

 

Ahsoka tries to save Anakin to whom she had no idea who Vader was other than a Sith Lord she had never met before or even knew existed. But when she fails or was unable to bring Anakin back she resorts to avenging him by destroying what he became, Darth Vader or the being that murdered Anakin Skywalker. This is different from Luke who was lied and misdirected and being trained to kill Darth Vader, the man that betrayed and murdered his good father- once Luke learns he was decieved and being essentially lied to and manpilated into killing his own father, he refuses. Luke instead sets out to save his father and bring him back to the light or if he cannot or his himself turned to the Dark Side, the Rebels would destroy them all onboard the Death Star II or in any case, Leia would become the Jedi Knight he was meant to and there was another chance or hope. Luke only really breaks once its clear Vader would destroy Luke and go after Leia to either kill her too or turn her.

But both Asoka and Luke share a self sacrifice trait to save the same man they both loved - but Ahsoka's difference was that she really wanted Vader dead and her beloved master avenged, so there was an underlying revenge theme yet.

Ahsoka seems entirely Light Side aligned so much so that even when you think she's getting angry and seeking revenge she's somehow immune to the Dark Side's taint - we only really saw this in The Daughter of Mortis who was very war-like but Light Side aligned and seemingly immune to the Dark Side . Another thing is if we take into account Ventress and Vos, its unclear why there was so much resistence to and even absolutes, about Anakin not being saved coming from Yoda and Kenobi. I don't think it will ever be addressed since its something ignored and being bypassed as continuity was't that important to Lucas and he trained Filoni and Gilroy into this thinking.

 

I don't think Ahsoka was 100% determined to kill Vader, especially after she sliced his helmet and Anakin, not Vader, called out to her. I think she might have been hesitant throughout their duel from the very start, still believing she could get through to him or that he would not be able to kill her.

I mean, when she charged him when he was distracted, I think she was able to kill him but didn't and just chose to wound him in order to help Ezra and Kanan escape.

 

She was wrong about that obviously

 

Think of the paradox if she wasn't so apprehensive about killing him. If she didn't just swipe his helmet....

 

Ah what measure is a mook

 

Hey, it worked in Inglourious Basterds.

 

Another likely hypothesis is that she did go for a killing blow and Vader started dodging too late to completely avoid it but soon enough that it just grazed him.

 

Filoni said she was not holding back, and it looked to me she was going for the killing. Vader managed to defend himself last minute.

 

Vader's armour is made of materials with some degree of resistance to lightsabers, like armourweave, durasteel and obsidian. Not fully immune to lightsabers, though, because Palpatine wanted to be able to take him down with Force Lightning, and a full body cortosis, phrik or taozin armour would probably make Vader quite resistant to lightning.

So I think it possible that Vader's helmet was just strong enough to protect his face against Ahsoka's blade (it broke, but the plasma didn't reach his face underneath).

 

Oh is that really true? In the duel she seemed not to fight as to kill him. It was the connection to Anakin that had prevented her from really fight.
Suppose she had battled without emotion, that wouldn't have turned out well for Vader. She still had hope to save him. Nevertheless, Vader has not done more than necessary. He did not want to kill, at least not at the beginning.

That is why I also believe that she is alive. The blast has ended the fight, both forced to withdraw. I think Ahsoka was very experienced and powerful, she wouldn't die so fast in the duel.
In addition, as Ezra and Kanan just fly away, they are still fighting. Shortly afterwards is the explosion. Very unlikely that Vader survived but Ahsoka not.

 

Yes. I don’t remember which interview or segment was, but it was way before the episode release.

The episode makes it pretty clear that Ahsoka was determined to kill him: “Then I will avenge his death” “Revenge is not the Jedi way.” “I am no Jedi” (paralleling Rex’s same line when he killed the zygerrian slaver).

Plus, if she wanted to “save” him, she wouldn’t have started the attack. At that moment she only saw a monster who killed her master. The sentimentality only came after the mask was torn off and she realized Vader was really Anakin.

And yet, even after the mask reveal, she was still not trying to save him. She never made any attempt at asking him to turn back and come with her. She blocked his way out of the closing doors to the Ghost. I think although she finally accepted the truth, she may have thought him to be long gone and decided to die with him. The reason why she may have survived would be because the explosion happened seconds after they clashed lightsabers again and they got separated.

EDIT: "Suppose she had battled without emotion, that wouldn't have turned out well for Vader."

Umm, more like the other way around. Filoni/Ashley have said, before the episode release, that if they were ever to fight each other, it wouldn’t end well for Ahsoka. If Vader wasn’t so concerned with the holocron, Ahsoka would be no more.

 

I agree. Although, it wouldn't make any sense, apart from canon, that Vader survives it and Ahsoka not. His armor wasn't demolished as he left the temple, just his helmet. So until it's confirmed I will stand by.

 

Yeah the only way that Filoni could justify her hitting him was with a surprise attack. Ahsoka actually defeating Vader was completely out of the question which is obvious if you

a) watch the episodes
b) watch the interviews

 

^ Yeah, but he still had an armor. Ahsoka didn't.
I think she survived, if not because she is Filoni's pet character, and also, there might be some interesting stories to tell with her in the future. But that whole explosion thing was a poorly written cop-out if you ask me.

 

Well, there are many ways and reasons to justify this. Defeating wasn't just out of question because of the interviews nor the episodes, it simply cannot happen. Despite everything, the fight was shown rather equally, no one really was at an advantage.
I'm glad that Vader was illustrated better than in OT, because OT Vader would stand no chance to Ahsoka, of course we all know Vader is very powerful, but Ahsokas agility is not to be underestimated.

That's my point. If the explosion would be so critical, it would totally violate his armor. But the armor has in fact actually survived completely unscathed. That's why I believe in Ahsoka.

 

"No one was at an advantage"? Did we really watch the same fight? While Ahsoka attacked first, she was on the backfoot pretty much all the time and then thrown off the temple (which she couldn't defend against at all). As Filoni said, Vader is the superior fighter and they made sure to show it.

OT Vader would also beat her. He's an absolute nightmare in the new canon.

 

She was on the backfoot because even if she grew, Vader was still bigger and higher. Physically not to compare. That was after all no one-sided fight, if he tried to show that, it failed IMO. Filoni can tell a lot if Disney is there, and the day is long.

At the very most ESB Vader would beat her. But the movies are just no basis to really determine who is stronger. From combat style, it would be as if Palpatine would fight against Savage.

New Canon Vader, I agree.