Rumor Alfonso Cuaron and Simon Pegg Rumor and Some Possible Plot Detailes.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Rancorrr, Feb 26, 2013.

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  1. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, I think that how the movies are seen by the society at large are more informative than how they are seen by fans on a website. Because then you are gauging the films not against each other, but against film history as a whole. It's a way to take our subjective tastes out of the equation.

    The argument was made that the flaws of the PT are equal to those of Empire. That doesn't seem to be the case when seen from this larger perspective.

    Empire is in the Library of Congress as a film of cultural significance. Do you really argue that Phantom Menace can make such a claim?
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Feb 26, 2013
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  2. Axle-Starweilder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2005
    star 6
    i don't care about 100 years from now, i'll probably be dead! i care about a clever new and savvy gen. madine and a hip-hop dancing lando jr.!!! heck!!!
  3. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    In another 17 years? We'll see.
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  4. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    Do you honestly believe this will happen?
  5. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

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    You haven't taken the subjectivity out of the argument at all though. In your opinion TPM won't be as culturally significant as the ESB but you have no way of knowing that unless you can see into the future. One could just as easily argue that the entire SW Saga will be culturally significant in 100 years or they could just as easily argue that they will all be forgotten. We have no evidence one way or the other just opinions.
  6. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    We have their places in history as seen in 2013. These movies are not viewed on equal footing today. As in , as I type this. That isn't an opinion. Empire is consistently rated higher.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Feb 26, 2013
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  7. Luukeskywalker Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
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    Phantom menace is not in the LIbrary of Congress while Empire is for a number of reasons. No one is denying the fact that the prequels aren't as well loved by the public right now as ANH and ESB. There is alot of hate out there for the PT, Phantom Menace especially. That doesn't mean it isn't out of the realm of reasonable possibility that such a film or series of films have been misunderstood and recieved excessive backlash from the public due to the cultural impact of the earlier films and people's passion about them. It is also not out of the realm of possibility that a generation from now, the PT will be at least viewed as worthy additions to the saga by film "experts" and could be put into the LIbrary with the other 8 films when the 9 part saga is complete. (They could all be in there together as ONE saga someday)
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  8. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

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    Jun 9, 2003
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    Again, from a cultural standpoint I think it's an easy in. It popularized the whole notion of a prequel in mainstream movies, which in turn brought on the whole reboot culture we're in now. It revolutionized digital filmmaking and paved the way for movies like "Avatar". It's one of the top ten domestic grossers, so yeah. I'd put money on it.
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  9. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

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    star 3
    Do you honestly believe this will happen?
  10. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

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    star 5
    TPM hasn't been out nearly as long as ESB. The OT received its fair amount of criticism upon release and today it is viewed as a classic.
  11. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

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    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, but ESB's been around for 33 years. TPM's only been around 14. And they've been around in radically different media environments, which affects how the conversation progresses on them. When ESB was originally released, its reviews weren't as universally solid. It was mixed. If the internet had been around in as big a way back then as in '99, the discussion would still probably be frozen around endless criticism of the film. It takes time for true classics to take hold.
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  12. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
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    Come on, it's not like it came out last year. It's not a fine wine
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Feb 26, 2013
  13. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Only 14 years? How many years do you get to use the qualifier "only"? At this point, the results are in.
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  14. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

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    ESB survived the intial criticism and is now of cultural and historical significance. At the 14 year mark all of the minor initial negativity around the film had evaporated. In the case of TPM it has become shorthand for critics to describe a way in which a movie isn't totally horrible, e.g. "Yes, the movie stunk, but wasn't Phantom Menace bad."
  15. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
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    I don't have a time table sorry. All I did was state a fact that the OT was certainly not universally acclaimed when they were released and yet today they are viewed as classic. So to me it is definitely not out of the realm of possibility that as prequel era fans and TCW era fans grow older the films that they grew up with can become classics just like the OT.
  16. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    It's telling that when we bring up how the movies are viewed today by society at large , the point isn't actually being disputed. We are being given reasons to excuse it. I think that sort of tells us everything we need to know right there. The best argument is "it's only been out for 14 years". That isn't much to hang your hat on
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Feb 26, 2013
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  17. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

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    Perhaps it is because when we bring up the fact that TPM and the prequels as a whole were not as universally panned as people seem to think are points are simply swept away by comments like, "oh you're just a prequel apologist."
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Feb 26, 2013
  18. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Again, the waters have been a lot choppier since the internet really took hold. If fanboys had been able to instantly nitpick ESB back in 1980, by '94 you'd probably still have people complaining about how the sequel to "Star Wars" had a fortune-cookie talking muppet, the holes in the story, the cheapness of the plot-twist and the lousy dialogue. Seriously, if sites like Aint it Cool News had been around then, you'd have seen ESB second-guessed within an inch of its life.

    A good example to see this sort of thing at work is how a movie like "Heaven's Gate" was killed in the cradle by critics who savaged it before its initial release. There, you're talking about a small pool of viewers who are immediately able to talk about it and share their opinions. It's taken decades, but we're finally seeing that film get its due recognition beyond being a byword for bomb and gain critical acceptance.
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  19. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    ...after a better edit was released. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(film) (Note: Heaven's gate was particularly notable as the argument against allowing the director to have full artistic control.)
    The same could happen for the PT, there are some brilliant edits of these movies happening out there. These movies are not that bad once you stop insisting on only allowing GL's versions.
    Last edited by KilroyMcFadden, Feb 26, 2013
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  20. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    The "better edit" is the director's cut. The same one that early critics hated, and that spurred the studio-mandated hatchet job that even more people hated.
  21. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I actually have two home pages. This and the one from the link. The guy or girl who runs it is very up to date on SW 7 news and rumorss and does an excellent job of culling info in a timely way. Also, Marketsaw -- has been very accurate and pretty much confirms alot of what we have already been discussing.

    Latino Times never said he was signed but that his involvement was "Official." I think they're just discussing the contract and that all of the Big 3 will be back.

    Totally agreed! I don't want any crossover and this includes Karl Urban whom I love as an actor.
    Last edited by Echo-07, Feb 27, 2013
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  22. darthtuttle Force Ghost

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    Apr 2, 2004
    star 4
    I agree. I studied film history in college. ANH and ESB will probably be remembered as culturally significant. What you have to understand is that some of the most well loved films today were once panned. The two biggest examples I could think of are The General and The Manchurian Candidate. No one liked those films when they came out. Now they're significant in film history. I think when the people who grew up on the OT die off and the number raised on CGI increase, it will change. I'm 24 and people closer to my age are clearly more receptive to the PT than my dad, saw ANH in theaters in high school.
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  23. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
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    Great post! I've been telling people this for years.
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  24. Jimstarwarsfan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 1
    Oh please! All i see with pegg is a comedy actor. I watched him in so many comedy tv programmes, films etc. all i would keep thinking if i see him in the movie, would be to wait for the next comedy line, gag etc. Although, I do like Pegg and i love the humour when he plays funny roles, but i don't want to see this guy in the star wars universe. Writing! well as long as it's serious and no poop gags and droid head exchanges, and no floppy ears terrible character
    .
    Last edited by Jimstarwarsfan, Feb 27, 2013
  25. Big Bad Yoda Daddy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2000
    star 4
    The wonderful thing about the truth is, that it's true whether you believe it or not. Believe what you want to believe, by all means, but don't spout vitriol and then stick your fingers in your ears when your point is challenged.
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