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Aliens Vs. Predator Movies Discussion Thread (First 5 Minutes of AVP2 Online Legally!)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Jedi_Master_Conor, Feb 18, 2006.

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  1. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    I don't doubt that...but movies...especially movies not fairly concerned on setting development, tend to grab cliches and stereotypes and run with them...even if only for the laughs that will result.

    And I've already indicated I'm not going to see this film...here's the problem.

    This is a sequel.

    The purpose of a sequel is to deliver a continuation or further expounding on a previous film that was popular.

    AVP was NOT popular, even if it was financially successful...they are making a sequel to AVP, regardless of what the directors would like us to believe coming out the side of their mouths.

    AVP was never worthy of a sequel.

    Now...if they truly wanted to break away...first...you DON'T call it AVP...you give it a a neutral name or pick a side...Predator 3 would be fine...as it seems the Preds are the "lesser" of the 2 evils.

    Second...avoid the things that made people cringe at AVP...and prime issue #1 people had was the absurd setting...but instead, they have gone and made that worse! And as setting sets up plot devices, what can you come up with in a semi-rural modern day American town? It's not the warzone settings of the Pred films, nor is it tech or sci-fi like the Alien films. It's cars and fast food joints and schools and fat cops and any other movie cliche...and in this case horror film cliche you can think of.

    AVP was bad because it was a poor tribute to both the Predator and Alien series...AVP: REQUIEM will probably be a fantastic sequel to AVP...which is the problem.

    These directors take every opportunity to say how they are "forgetting" AVP...but that talk doesn't translate to what we read or see other then a slimmer Pred suit.

    I'm glad this film sounds like a gore-fan's dream-come-true... but that isn't what the either Alien or Predator are famous for...and that's the greatest disappointment.
     
  2. Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord

    Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2004
    "The purpose of a sequel is to deliver a continuation or further expounding on a previous film that was popular."

    Ah, but what they're really trying to do is restart the franchise, forgetting the other AVP even existed. I think they're actually trying to get it right, to some extent anyway. Not in the way that they're gonna follow the comic, but in the way that they're actually going to try and make a decent monster/horror flick.

    D_M_S_L
     
  3. Koohii

    Koohii Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 30, 2003
    But who wouldn't want to see a bunch of idiot rednecks get ripped to shreds by giant, alien, unstoppable killing machines? Wouldn't it give you hope for the gene pool? You know... a little chlorine for the pond scum in the shallow end?

    Hey, it's not like they can make a movie much worse...

    Oh wait, yes they could.
    As for disappointing long-awaited franchise follow-ups, nothing could top the StarWars prequels--biggest hype and expectations, lowest level of customer satisfaction.

    Of course, that's just one arrogant web-poster's opinion...
     
  4. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    If it was a total slaughter, sure...but somehow a group of them will survive. If they really follow the horror-form, then the well-endowed "virgin" will be the last blood soaked survivor. And then she'll turn around and Leatherface will be standing in the middle street to take a swing with his chainsaw right before going to black for the credits.

    "DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING" and suddenly it'll be he best movie ever! (I call it Sixth Sense Syndrome)

    Then you get AVPVL: Colorado Chainsaw Massacre in a couple years.

    The Alien movies used to be smart...Predator 2 was getting smart.

    Now we are "lowest common denominatoring" the whole mess.



    amen

    Though in distant second I'd put the "Pirates of the Caribbean" sequels.

    X-men 3

    Spiderman 3

    Sometimes I think the studios have a guy screen screenplays...an sequel screenplay that is "good" gets a character change, title change and is packaged as a whole new movie...that way they can make junk sequels to every good idea in Hollywood.

    _____________

    On the plus side, I just saw a trailer for a sequel to "Elizabeth"...now that might be worth seeing.

    _____________

    There was a time when either of these franchises would hit the "must" button for me. I was first in the theater for Alien Ressurection [face_worried][face_sick]...I remember seeing the trailers for AVP where the Preds set off the bomb as the aliens are climbing over each other and thought...wow...they've got it. Too bad it's the one and only cool spot...and it lasted for 7 seconds.

    Maybe I'm more bitter about AVP then others...maybe I'm just jaded to the hollywood machine...but it's just one more treasure of my youth that has been debased for a cheap quick cash-in.
     
  5. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    actually, I thought the setting, i.e. that pyramid with all the gizmos and the alien-hunt-maturity-ritual-reason for it, was pretty good

    what was absurd was its background, being a 3-way pyramid on earth under the Anatarctic :p
     
  6. Koohii

    Koohii Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 30, 2003
    Oh, it has to be a total slaughter. Aliens--wiped out. Humans--wiped out. Predators--wiped out.


    Well, since I couldn't stomache more than 30 minutes of the first one, we may disagree. When the Queen of England is making gross grammatical errors like a common american teenager, I have problems suspending my disbelief. "Is it Him?" Ug.

    No, what was absurd was the Labrynth syndrome rearranging maze.
     
  7. Crash_Davis

    Crash_Davis Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2006
    I'll see your rearranging maze absurdity, and raise you the 10 minute chestburster gestation period. [face_plain]
     
  8. Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord

    Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2004
    "Maybe I'm more bitter about AVP then others...maybe I'm just jaded to the hollywood machine...but it's just one more treasure of my youth that has been debased for a cheap quick cash-in."

    I think you just need to learn when to separate the good, the bad, and the ugly. Just cause AVP sucked, doesn't mean that the Alien and/or Predator series are ruined. That's just lame. I just watched Aliens last night, and all I kept thinking throughout the thing was how it was the best damn movie of its kind. It was when I first saw it and it still is today. Alien Resurrection is by far the worst in the Alien series, but it doesn't cheapen the others for me. Another example is the PT, it's nothing when compared to the OT, but that doesn't make the OT less valuable.

    I hate the Hollywood machine as well, but you give them far too much credit and let them have way too much control.

    D_M_S_L
     
  9. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Your right, it doesn't affect those films...they are still awesome.

    But now, when you watch them or think about them or discuss them...somewhere in there comes to mind the tragic missteps. Like finding an "Alien" box set that includes Alien Resurrection...it is part of it all now, it's inescapable. The overall concept is tarnished...and as much as you can claim the awesomeness of "Aliens", you also much accept the bane for Alien Resurrection or AVP...and as a franchise, it knocks down it's enjoyment factor, it's sentimental value...and eventually, it's monetary value as people reject the junk sequels.

    And then you start getting the fractional-budget sequels, the straight to video releases...the "Sci-fi" original films...Alien and Predator used to be prized licenses...they could swifty become marketed beasts...abused to the point that they are useless.

    "what do you think the Alien Series?"

    "Oh I love Alien, and Aliens rocked! Best film of 80s without 'Star Wars' on it."

    "What about "Alien vs. Predator 7: Streetbrawl"

    "Yeah...didn't see that one"
     
  10. Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord

    Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2004
    "Your right, it doesn't affect those films...they are still awesome."

    I know. I'm always right... :p

    "But now, when you watch them or think about them or discuss them...somewhere in there comes to mind the tragic missteps. Like finding an "Alien" box set that includes Alien Resurrection...it is part of it all now, it's inescapable. The overall concept is tarnished...and as much as you can claim the awesomeness of "Aliens", you also much accept the bane for Alien Resurrection or AVP...and as a franchise, it knocks down it's enjoyment factor, it's sentimental value...and eventually, it's monetary value as people reject the junk sequels."

    That's what I've been saying though... Those other flicks didn't affect my viewing of Aliens. I admit that when I saw the queen, I thought about how AVP stupidly over-used it... But I also thought about that dumbass Direct TV commercial with Ripley fighting the Queen. But it's in and out, not a constant thought in my head. I do hear what you're saying though... And yeah, it's pretty annoying that I own the Alien Series and Resurrection is apart of it, but I just don't watch it.

    By the way, Joss Whedon fans, he wrote that piece of crap...

    "And then you start getting the fractional-budget sequels, the straight to video releases...the "Sci-fi" original films...Alien and Predator used to be prized licenses...they could swifty become marketed beasts...abused to the point that they are useless."

    But it hasn't happened yet. Use the Force. Keep your mind on the here and now... Sorry, can't resist an opportunity for cheese. [face_dancing]


    "what do you think the Alien Series?"

    "Oh I love Alien, and Aliens rocked! Best film of 80s without 'Star Wars' on it."

    "What about "Alien vs. Predator 7: Streetbrawl"

    "Yeah...didn't see that one"



    I have a feeling, if this next one sucks, and there's a huge chance it will, we won't be hearing from either the Aliens or the Predators for a long time...

    Just be glad they didn't try to, once again figure Ripley into the mix... Think of the impending disaster there..

    D_M_S_L
     
  11. Koohii

    Koohii Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 30, 2003
    What, you don't want to see geriatrics battling super-kill-beast aliens?

    Android #16: "Ripley, you are man kind's only hope."

    70 year-old Ripley: "A hundred years and the future, and you'd think the 1970s had never happened. ERA! Ever heard of it? Stop being so damned sexist. It's 'human kind', not 'man kind'."

    #16: "I'm sorry. How insensative of me. Please, for human kind... For our daughters yet unborn... For those women waiting to one day know the joys of childbirth... Help us."

    Ripley: "OK, fine. Grovel while I suit up." Ripley rolls her wheelchair into the super-deluxe, handi-capable exoframe. The suit powers up. She uses it to crush the aliens. Acid blood spurts everywhere, disfiguring the android.

    #16: "You saved us... You saved us all... Aaaaah." Android dies.

    Ripley: "Wuss. Only real men around here are artificial."
     
  12. Panther50

    Panther50 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    You guys are such pessimists, from what I've seen so far this one looks like it will right up there with the best ones in both series.
     
  13. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001


    Sucks doesn't matter...AVP "sucked"...but it made money.

    If this one makes money...and I suspect it will...then we can expect more.

    And as the returns get weaker over time, expect budget to fall...and thus the scenario I mentioned before.

    I fear them turning the Alien/Predator license into a horror serial on par with the the Freddies and Jasons of the world.

    P.S. I could see an aged Weaver return as a great great great grandmother to Ripley in some lame cameo...since we seem to be stuck in the present age with these films. They'd find some way to make the whole "alien butt kicking" a family trait. [face_sick]
     
  14. Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord

    Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2004
    I think they're just giving it a real chance, that's all. I think a lot of people really felt that AVP just didn't deliver and they wanted to "fix" it, in a sense...But, in Hollywood, one only gets a a few chances. If you screw up enough, you're done. It happens time and time again.

    I kind of look at it like the Hulk flick. The first one blew so bad, but Hollywood figured "hey, it's the Hulk...somebody's got to do him justice." and now here they are making a sequel, reinventing the Hulk. And the first one is widely concidered to be one the worst comic book flicks ever. I mean come on, banner becomes the Hulk for the first time while he's doin' paperwork... How lame is that.

    Anyway, I kinda AVP-R is a similar situation. They just can't stand to let Aliens and Predator go out like they did in AVP.

    Then again sucking is a matter of opinion and if AVP-R makes millions while continuing to suck, there may be more sequels and, god forbid, spin-offs.

    D_M_S_L
     
  15. Koohii

    Koohii Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 30, 2003
    Hey, Jerry Bruckheimer has produced one good movie, two mediocre movies, and 42 horrible movies. Yet somehow, this guy still has a career. Even though the movies were awful, illogical, and frequently just stupid, they were big budget, and made a lot of money from the under-educated teenager market.
     
  16. Beowulf

    Beowulf Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 28, 1999
    And on that note, Uwe Boll still hasn't been crucified for making incredibly terrible movies. (And he jsut finished a sequel to Alone in the Dark).

    The movie does look like, so far from the trailers, a bit more closely like the original comic than the previous outing, but still so, so, so far away.

    The release date though will bring a bit more folk in than an August release date.
     
  17. Koohii

    Koohii Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 30, 2003
    You know, for all the nasty things that can (and have) been said about him, (most of them deserved) Uwe Boll has the distinction of having been willing to face the critics directly, and giving them the chance to hurt him. Anyone who had written derogatory critiques of two or more of his movies was invited to face off against him in a boxing ring.

    I'm sure he had some nice advantage like being a college boxer, but I don't know of any other director willing to do anything like that.

    I am NOT trying to defend his craptacular movies--just pointing out an interesting character trait.

    Of course, the fact that he doesn't see anything wrong with his movies is a rather sad statement about his character too.
     
  18. Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord

    Darth_Maul_Sith_Lord Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2004
    I'm not entirely sure that calling your critics into a boxing ring to fight you is a sign of intelligence or bravery...More like childish.

    "call me names, huh, wanna fight about it?" ;)

    Let me reiterate what I was trying to say before.
    Only getting a few chances in Hollywood, refers specifically to how much money you make for a studio. Bruckheimer produces a lot of crap, as far as quality is concerned, but he makes the studios lots of money. And when you have successes like the "Pirates" trilogy and Armageddon under your belt, not to mention all the CSIs and a number of "successful" reality TV shows, Hollywood pretty much lets you do whatever you want. He's what is referred to as a "Power Player". He pretty much gets to control whatever he's involved with, mainly because he's the guy with the money.

    But this flick doesn't have that kind of backing, therefore, unless it makes tons and tons of money, I doubt we'll see a slue of sequels.

    D_M_S_L
     
  19. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Bruckheimers problem now is that he has spawned minions who work in his format...the Michael Bays of the world. And though the films still make money...it's not hand over fist like it used to be.

    Uwe is insane...he fancies himself cutting edge "artist" more then filmmaker...he intentionally does the irrational and consequently coaches actors to ridiculous escapades in a hope to shake "realism" and somehow blow minds without mind altering substances.

    Problem is popcorn ain't gonna get an audience to wherever Uwe was when he was making Alone in the Dark or Blood Rayne.

    He wants to be the Andy Warhol of 21st century cinema...more often it comes out like his actors, crew, and post production team all kind of nodded in a corner and counted their money, hoping their credit passed unnoticed.
     
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Uwe isn't brave for willing to fight his critics- especially since, I believe, it was revealed he declined anyone that had actual boxing experience.
     
  21. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    We better be careful...Uwe might get the next Alien/Predator sequel.

    AVP will look oscar worthy at that point.
     
  22. I_AM_GEEK

    I_AM_GEEK Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Close up of Predalien from AICN


    SPOILERRRRZZZZZZZZZzzZZZzzZzZ!111!!1!










    [image=http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/9376/yeeshad9.jpg]

    LOL bob marley alien
     
  23. Sith_Lord_Linkoping

    Sith_Lord_Linkoping Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    "Ey mon, lemme get tha voodoo on ya. You be trippin, mon Me just gonna puff on yo' 'ead, mon"

    ;)

    Yeah, I saw the picture over at Bloody Disgusting and I think it looks awful and corny. :rolleyes:
     
  24. I_AM_GEEK

    I_AM_GEEK Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Its also wearing a Punisher t-shirt
     
  25. Sith_Lord_Linkoping

    Sith_Lord_Linkoping Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    [face_laugh]

    Yeah, you're right. I didn't see that at first.

    Even if this "Bob Marley lookalike picture" doesn't win me over I think this movie will be far better than the first one. Nothing can be worse than that, can it? ;)
     
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