Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Jedi_Master_Conor, Feb 18, 2006.
It was a better film than the first one.
Ian Whyte, who took over as the Predator for the late Kevin Peter Hall, has a background in martial arts. Combine that with a bodysuit that's slimmer than the one in the last film and you have a more lithe Predator in "The Wolf".
I'm happy to see some positive reviews here, I'm planning on seeing it tomorrow.
Overall I enjoyed Aliens Vs. Predator: Requiem a lot better than the first AVP. My only complaints were the overall dark feeling in terms of lighting. It felt a little too dark where you couldn't make out certain things or details. Probably to cover up certain flaws in costumes, etc. due to budget constraints the Strause's had to deal with. It could have been a lot longer and expanded on the human characters. Other than that I loved it. Fight scenes were pretty good and I loved how the Predator was so much closer to the ones in Predator 1 and 2.
I liked the scene at the end where Ms. Yutani gets the predator shoulder cannon/gun. Nice little tie-in there. Can't wait to see where the next sequel goes. Hopefully in the future with the colonial marines.
I think this movie tried to compensate for the complaints about the last movie, whose three most common complaints were the lack of gore, too much of a focus on the human characters & a lack of actual AVP scenes (mostly resulting from the second issue).
This one upped the gore, action and AVP focus. The humans get brief introductions but aren't developed much, because the movie is really from the Predator POV, IMO. The humans just happen to find themselves in a Planet Terror-esque scenario from thier POV, but it's "The Cleaner" Predator character whose really the star of the movie. (I personally like to believe that, while The Cleaner is one of the best at what he does, it still pisses him off that he had to go clean up the newbies' mess. He probably had plans that weakend ).
If they do get Colonial Marines into the next movie, I hope they'll give both sides a better balanced level of development, but for the purposes of AVPR, I liked the Predator focus.
So here's a question to those who saw it:
Do they manage to block out the knowledge of the event cleanly from the public? Is knowledge of the Xenos obvious to the powers that be?
I'm just curious if the continuity bus has been burned to the axles or if they patched the leaks.
PM an answer if you think that might be too big a spoiler.
The public doesn't know anything except for the 4 survivors from the town at the end who get captured by the military. The rest of the town's population was either killed by the Xenomorphs or killed by the nuke the military dropped on there. To the outside world the Military will probably explain the situation as the nuclear power plant by the town blowing up since there were problems with that early in the movie due to the Predator missing some shots at a few of the aliens.
At least to me, It was quite obvious that the Yutani Corporation is well aware of the Xenomorphs and the Predators. Seeing as how they got the predator shoulder cannon at the end of AVP: R. Tie that in to what presumably Weyland Industries knows from the first movie. To me there are no continuity leaks and it ties in nicely as to how the human race gets deep space exploration going. (Reverse engineering from the Predator shoulder cannon anyone?)
I'm not sure if reverse-engineering the shoulder cannon would have much application to starship technology development, beyond perhaps the power source.
However, The Cleaner's deployment pod is still in that lake, and raises the thought I hadn't had before that the Predator from the original Predator film also must have left his deployment pod in the jungle too. So, if those were discovered, we might get something from reverse-enegineering them.
As for the Xenos... I suspect that Yutani doesn't know much about the Xenos other than video footage that glimpses them. They do know more about the Yautja now, though, obviously (and since Yutani seems to have a good level of military access, I suspect they already knew about the Yautja from the "Busey-Group" data in Predator 2, before AVPR got them the shoulder cannon). However, Weyland might now know more about the Xenos after the first AVP. So, when they eventually merge, they'll have a greater piece of the picture. The survivor from the first AVP might know more than both corporations at this point though.
I didn't even think about the deployment pods. Good catch there The2ndQuest.
As for the survivor from the first AVP I'd like to know what happened to her. I doubt it'll be explained in the movies, but if they do some novels or comics about the events that take place in between the films I wouldn't mind.
I'm always curious as to whether they will attempt to re-imagine Alien as far as the company is concerned...how wise they were to what they made the crew of the Nostromo investigate, or whether is remains a rash act of curiosity and greed.
See as one of things that underlined the biting issue of the company and "mother" was how determinations about potential profits and acceptable loses were made based on no knowledge of what they found.
Response: Bring it home at ALL COSTS! money, money, money.
With each new element they tack on here, I start getting nervous that they will rewrite the tale so that the intention of the Nostromo mission...the primary mission...was this xeno pick up...which changes some of subtext quite a bit. First off, it makes the company not just evil in cold calculation, but sinister and deceptive to a new level. It also makes the whole thing VERY cloak and dagger, as the crew of Nostromo is about the worst possible choice for pulling off such a recovery...which the company would know. And incompetence wouldn't be a word used to describe the company. And no backup? No one looking for survivors? You'd think with such a clearly known valuable commodity, the Nostromo wreckage would be more thoroughly investigated and the lifeboat found...as it stood, the inquiry is only dusted off once Ripley is chanced upon.
It also reshapes a character like Burke in Aliens...just how much did he know? As originally told, he's an oblivious money-gruber who makes guesses...but if the company has background info...hundreds of years old...again, I get twitchy. And why would the company invest a full fledged colony with expectation of xenos...they could just as easy drop off morons to be birthed from and come back to pick up the xenos.
prequels...curse you George...you made them passable fare!
It sounds like from what I'm reading, humanity knows considerably more about the Preds then the Xenos...which is probably good for the continuity...as there are no Pred tales in front of things (however, there are books/games/etc that we just won't go into just now).
I really wish they'd leapfrog to past all the films if they want to continue this...make it truly scifi-horror.
The way things seem now is that while the compnay had past knowledge such things exists, whenever something indicating something like what was encountered on Earth, they make it a priority to investigate, not knowing if it'll be a Yautja, Xeno, Space Jockey or some new race or remnant- they don't want to miss an opportunity to acquire anything like they did back in the 2000's.
However, once the company realizes what the Nostro discovered- these fabled Xenos- they go into full "we want now!" mode.
Since the Nostro never returned, the Company decides to look further into it, but can't find the ship on the planet anymore, or Xeno eggs, so they push in the terraforming, knowing it might make exploration easier and thus locate the ship.
Except they knew...Burke sends them out to the crash site after Ripley shows up and reopens the investigation. The ship was still there. (I'm gonna assume you haven't seen the extended edition/director's cut of Aliens...it's a scene that explains Nute's parents.)
See the problem? In that context, the company seems oblivious to any potential of the crashsite until Ripley shows up and mentions the possibility that more of those things were in the wreckage...something the company never bothers to investigate in the early years of the colony.
You'd think if they were truly eager...say based on past reports to coincide with what Nostromo reported...they'd be all over that crash site well before Ripley comes back or before a colony goes in.
it's voodoo on motivations.
No, I have seen the SE cut of Aliens- I meant to suggest that perhaps the company didn't know the location of the crashed ship, and once Ripley is found and can show them, they send out Newt's parents.
I could be forgetting some detail that shows the company knew the location of the crashsite, though, it's just a theory.
Finally got to see AVP2 and have to say I was very disappointed.
Started off great, with then showing us why there'd be more than one Alien running around. (Predators having Facehuggers on board) I was actually impressed by that.
Pretty much went downhill from there for me. The whole teen set up was dumb, who didn't see who would die and who wouldn't? I did like more Predator scenes in this, but I felt the quantity of Alien/Predator did not compensate for the poor quality. Most of the movie was so dark and or wet you couldn't make out what the hell was going on.
And the hospital scene, as soon as they showed the pregnant lady I voiced out loud "you are not going to go there". They did and it turned out to be the lamest thing I've seen in this series.
I really felt this movie catered to the young teen fanboys only. Some people really do like substance.
I preferred the first AVP and will not be buying this on DVD. Once is most definitely enough.
WY didn't know the lifeform was nasty. From what we can glean, or reasonably calculate from the first film alone, the signal was intercepted by WY before the Nostromo was rerouted. I'm sure that if Mother could decipher a portion of the signal, then you can bet that WY deciphered the entire code. Yes, it was a warning, but the potential for profit overrides the danger, and the Nostromo's Science Officer is replaced with Ash, who's only duty it to carry out Special Order 937.
Actually, they're the best choice at the time. Again, WY didn't know that they were dealing with at that point, so rather than spending a lot of time and resources on a special ops team for what could have potentially turned out to be nothing, they chose the quicker, more cost effective road, and sent the Nostromo to investigate. If anything was there to be picked up (i.e. exploited), it was Ash's job to make sure it was returned to the Bioweapons division for analysis.
Again, the company didn't know what they were dealing with, therefore, they could assign no value to whatever may or may not have been on that planet. Furthermore, the wreckage of the Nostromo could not have been investigated, as it was completely obliterated when she self-destructed.
Well, as far as that goes, you could look at it from the perspective that anyone at WY having anything to do with the Nostromo and Special Order 937 was long since dead/retired, etc. The planet is terraformed (approximately 35 years after the Nostromo incident), Ripley comes back and all Burke has is her story of a xeno. He of course , and sends a message to Hadley's Hope to investigate the Derelict, knowing that if they find something, he stands to profit handsomely for his involvement.
Um, Crash...none of that is at issue...that is how it happened, I was postulating on how things will be affected by the company having prior knowledge of the xenos.
If the company had any record, first off, any "alien" signal should bring that information front and center...and if not then, absolutely after they report in following the facehugger event.
The monster that was "mother" and the company mentality has always been the uncaring, cold calculation that an unknown entity would profit the company at the expense of the life of the Nostromo's crew...it was a chastisement of the expendable nature of people in the face of greed...It's the point of the alien series...the hubris of greed.
Now granted, drooling over a xeno for centuries doesn't change this much...but rather then making these decisions in the dark, the company is sending expeditions out with at least some contingency of running into such an organism, and don't provide for adequate safeguards or tools for such a handling...which means it's a big no no...the whole quarantine thing...and aren't just heartless cost/benefit analyzers, but conspirators to murder for profit.
It does change things just a little...a case where themes of original story telling are consumed and lost to the bigger saga.
No worries, I'm just saying that even if the company had prior knowledge of the xenos, (which being a lifelong fan of the Alien films, I don't accept these *crappy AvP movies as canon), that doesn't change the fact the company could not possibly have known that the possible organisms on LV426 were the xenos. If they had known that, then yes, they probably would have been better prepared, and sent some kind of special ops unit it, but they figured Ash was contingency enough to get whatever organism that was there back for study.
Yeah we have to remember that the events in Alien are almost 200 years later, and how many people in the company are going to be aware of classified events that long ago. Even if they did pick up a signal theres little chance that they'll connect that the same creatures are involved. On a side note I wonder what connection the Predators might have with the aliens in the crashed ship in Alien.
I dunno, I actually thought that was was one of the more haunting concepts in the film- not only is the motehr and child dead, but the baby is basicly a first meal for the chestbursters. Actually taps into the horror origins of the first Alien movie.
Now THAT would be a fantastic movie right there.
And leave out the humans entirely...replace them with the space jockey race (make them human-like enough it you just HAVE to)
ok...coolest thing I've heard mention of yet...I'm not a huge fan of such horrors of violation...but at least they pushed a limit.
Sidebar - little off the subject of the film - but just a quick comment:
Just thinking about the Space Jockey in Alien...knowing what we know now about how the xenos take on certain genetic traits of the species they spawn from...
A xeno from a space jockey would be FREAKIN HUGE!
Never actually thought of that before...that alone clinches a movie deal...it's the twist.
Hmm..and aren't female Yautja supposed to be much bigger than the males? Lady Yautja vs Spalien Jockey...
I wonder if a Queen Xeno born from a Space Jockey would be even larger? Since they're already pretty big...
Oooh-get your creature math ready, what about a female Predalien Queen born from a Space Jockey?
Wouldn't by being born of the space Jockey, it would be a Space Jockey Queen?
I've always been curious if we should assume that the space jockey birthed a queen...it's obvious that there was a queen on the ship from all the eggs...but whether the queen was born and then started the colony or whether the queen was making the colony onboard and one of the facehuggers got to the space jockey...
I know when they were making Alien, the Queen wasn't even a concept (though the "hive" was...go fig)...so they could do anything there. Personally, I always thought the Space Jockey was caring the xeno eggs as cargo somewhere...
perhaps to the Preds?
very fertile territory for a tale.
Yeah, I forget if it was in a Ridley Scott commentary track or simply postulated elsewhere that the Xenos are just a biological weapon created by some race (whether or not it's the Space Jockey race or not remains to be seen), and the Space Jockey was just transporting the eggs, one got out and impregnated him, causing the ship to crash. It doesn't really have to be a Queen that comes out of the Jockey if the eggs were already aboard.