Index All Helmet, No Head - The Mandalorian Discussion Group and Index---New stories, new discussion--9/2!

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Corran_Fett, Oct 3, 2006.

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  1. Corran_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2005
    star 4
    Hello, anybody still out there?:oops:

    Anyone picked up Revelation yet and wants to discuss the Mando's role?
  2. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    I'm still here and reading.[face_batting]

    Got nothing sensible to say about Mandos, though. Except that i am considering a story around a civil war where both sides hired Mandos. Not sure what to make with that, though.[face_thinking] Only the idea is so intriguing.:oops:
  3. Corran_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2005
    star 4
    It's an idea that probably crossed a lot of peoples' minds already, but it's a very good one nonetheless. :D Is it just "a job's a job" issue, or are there personal bonds between members of the different sides? It can make for a lot of moral depth.

    I say you should try to give it a go, before someone else does. ;)
  4. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    I was considering a two-fold approach. that it's 'just a job' as long as there were other fighters around, but things get done the Mado way as soon as there were only Mandos involved in a fight.
    Not that i am certain what 'the Mando way' would be. I consider soemthing like that battle circle (dran, lost the name of that) or something. [face_thinking]
    And something about making sure the fallen Mandos got their families informed or something, even if they fought on the other side. Might be easier to creat, too, since the winner takes the battlefield.

    Input is very welcome, of course.[face_batting]
  5. Roain_Xantos Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2005
    star 4
    *warily pokes head in*

    Su'cuy, vode. Been a while, eh? Glad to see some more action in here. :)

    Iight, so I've got this chronic writer's block, and can't seem to find a cure. Any ideas?

    Roain <><
  6. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    You could try to help me come up with 'the Mando way' to solve things when they meet in battle?[face_batting]

    Or I could brew you a nice little challenge.[face_devil]
  7. Corran_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2005
    star 4
    [face_thinking] Depends on whether it is a full-scale battle (with a battlefield) or a smaller skirmish. In a big battle, I doubt that it ever gets down to Mando vs. Mando, because there must be other fighters involved as well. And I don't think it comes down to a battle circle, either... the job's got to be about money, not about honor. Everybody wants to live and see the day, rather than lose in a duel. Because deciding the course of a battle on which side was lucky to get the more skilled close combat Mando on their payroll is doubtful, imho. I think they always keep the "just a job" spirit, unless they personally know one of the opposing merc team.

    Now that is probably the harder part. I think once the mercenary work gets personal, it becomes veeeery problematic for everyone involved. A faceless group of Mandos battling a faceless other group, I don't think any Mando should have much problems with that. But once you know who the Mando behind the visor is, you can't just go to his family and say "hey, sorry, I killed your son/husband on that assignment". Even if in general Mandos fighting vs. Mandos is accepted by most people, I doubt the relative of a lost one wouldn't want revenge if the murderer of said lost one showed up to tell them.

    I know, it sounds a bit weird, but I hope you can get my point.^^

    Su'cuy, Roain'ika. A quite literal "so you're still alive" Welcome Back! :D As for your question. Find inspiration. A book, a movie, a show, another fanfic... you may get inspired, get an ingenious idea, and will start writing right away. Or of course, participate in a challenge. Or check the last few pages if there's anything that inspires you. ;)
  8. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    [face_thinking] Depends on whether it is a full-scale battle (with a battlefield) or a smaller skirmish. In a big battle, I doubt that it ever gets down to Mando vs. Mando, because there must be other fighters involved as well. And I don't think it comes down to a battle circle, either... the job's got to be about money, not about honor. Everybody wants to live and see the day, rather than lose in a duel. Because deciding the course of a battle on which side was lucky to get the more skilled close combat Mando on their payroll is doubtful, imho. I think they always keep the "just a job" spirit, unless they personally know one of the opposing merc team.

    In a full-fledged battle, it's shoot or die.
    Since I plan a civil war with lots of guerilla fighting going on, I'd say there'd be a lot of smaller skirmishes. And I would not have my Mandos so blockheaded that they simply fight it out against their own instead of finding a sensible way around. It would not be deciding a battle, anyway but having one group retreat before anybody gets killed. (And there will be times when the opposing teams do know each other, too...)
    Things could be less fromal than a battle circle, but so far, I have come up with no good solution. Fight it out with a ban on severe injuries and death? Have a duel of some kind? have the leaders of a group be the champion automatically, but make the choic of weapons random?


    Now that is probably the harder part. I think once the mercenary work gets personal, it becomes veeeery problematic for everyone involved. A faceless group of Mandos battling a faceless other group, I don't think any Mando should have much problems with that. But once you know who the Mando behind the visor is, you can't just go to his family and say "hey, sorry, I killed your son/husband on that assignment". Even if in general Mandos fighting vs. Mandos is accepted by most people, I doubt the relative of a lost one wouldn't want revenge if the murderer of said lost one showed up to tell them.

    I like complicated. :p And it's just one of the problems I'd like to explore. Because somebody has to tell the family 'hey, one of us just killed your mother/fatehr/child.' And I did not think of making them go in person, more like sending the remains back home. There was something about being buried at home, or am I mixing cultures here?
    I'm not very versed in warfare, so I don't know how things look after a battle and who takes care of the fallen. Somebody should, though, IMO.

    I know that there is this mercenay side to Mandos, but I want my characters to be the ones having to face the problems that brings. How do you deal with it? What are the consequences? What, if you found your neighbour has signed up for the other side? Just because you go and fight for money, even against other Mandos, that does not mean you're at peace with the decision. Maybe all my charactres will turn out to be schizos in the end.:oops:

    Here's hoping I'm making any sense. One of the problems is that the decidion by duel is something I'd rather like to have for the story. Oh, it it's any help, the time frame is sometime between TTT and NJO.
  9. Corran_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2005
    star 4
    Somehow I can't picture it like that. Here's what I think: the two meets finally confront each other, as going another way/looking away has become impossible. So the team that thinks is in advantage like says "Here's the deal, we're gonna win anyway, we don't want you vode to die trying to stop us. Last chance to retreat." Now it depends on the overall situation how the other team reacts. Retreat doesn't always imply cowardice. If the team in disadvantage realized that their clients don't stand a chance to win in the civil war, they know they can't get paid, so they'll back down. If however, they still see a chance of victory, then it's a "No way, you won't get passed us, even if we die trying. We're worth our money, not hut'uune backing down."

    Instead of a battle cirle, I think at that point, some sort of big and lethal brawl will start. Like two groups of hooligans that favor different football/rugby teams clashing on each other, just minus the alcohol involved. That's how I think such a fight would play out, a "free-for-all" brawl with no rules, just everyone fighting for their survival. Everyone had their chance to back down, if they don't, then a high-casualties slaughter can't be avoided.

    Mandos aren't noble knights, they're fierce mercs who fight dirty, at least by the OT-time. If you wanna write post-KotOR era, it's another story completely. In that case, a battle circle still might be possible. But since we're talking about paid mercenary armies, there won't be a "commander vs commander" duel that decides who wins and who has to leave.

    Of course, all just my opinion of that.

    Good call here, the anonymous "sending armor home" should work great. No sending remains, Mandos don't bury their fallen ones... only the Mandalores get buried.

    Yes, I bet there would be a lot of moral problems for the Mandos, they do have a conscience after all. That's why I doubt that when they personally know one of the opposing Mandos (neighbor or friend), they probably would try their best not to kill them. Incapaciate or injure, perhaps, that they can't fight this battle any longer, but not kill.
  10. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    You give me quite a lot to think about, good thing I have all weekend to do so.[face_thinking][:D]

    Okay, no burying, makes everything a lot easier.:D

    Hrm, I need three duel scenes already and all are somewhat important. Once, the groups run into each other by chance, second time their leaders know each other and third time- oh well, it's all complicated.:oops:
    I will consider the mercenary side some more and be back.

    Maybe it's just me who can't understand that you would just fight/kill somebody if there was a way to avoid it.
  11. Roain_Xantos Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2005
    star 4
    Hmm...das ist possibile. But no challenge!! >_<

    It seems so. Hrm...maybe I'll freewrite something tonight. I never seem to do well with challenges. Things always come out really immature-sounding. Random question possibly having something to do with what I may write: could Mandos get lost in a snowstorm? Oh, and where would one find a idk...colony or settlement of Mandos? I mean like, besides Dxun and around the Saga. I can't write pre- or post-saga for some reason.

    Roain <><
  12. Corran_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2005
    star 4
    1 - I doubt it, unless he has also lost his helmet (sensors). Unless the storm is severely heavy, the helmet sensors would allow enhanced vision (thermal or something). 2 - We don't really know, by the time of pre-LotF, there's more than 5 million Mandos in diaspora in the galaxy, small communities everywhere. One is on Nar Shaddaa, but I'm sure you can find 'em on various other planets as well, depending on the size of the planet, colonies/settlements are possible, though I doubt they're really big, nothing more the size of a small village perhaps.

    Hope I could help, good luck with the writing. ;) I'm off to bed now.
  13. A_Tout_ner_Vode Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Aliit liser jorhaa'ir Mando'a, however poorly it might be. (Side note: I use "aliit" for "I," since the lexicon lists "identity" for its definiton)

    Anyway, I was wondering: What were the Mandos doing in the Yuuzhan Vong War? I know they fought against them, but how did they fare in general? Did they do well in the war? Also, what did Boba do during and after the fighting? I've got a nice storyline thought up, but I'm not sure how to work it in without knowing more about all that.
  14. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    kebbu ibic, A_Tout_ner_Vode, and IIRC, I is 'ni'?

    It might be interesting to see what it takes to have Mandos lost in a snow storm, Roain.[face_thinking] There's probably more story behind the reason for that than in being lost itself.

  15. Roain_Xantos Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2005
    star 4
    Hmm...or his sensors were shab'la or something? Darn these nonsensical plot bunnies!

    So basically, I could stick 'em wherever I wanted? :p

    Yes, 'ni' means I.

    Oh, there's a couple of things I'm thinking about as far as the getting lost bit. I think it may be coming from this eight or so inches I've been trudging through for the past two days.

    Roain <><

  16. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    Okay, so I found somebody who fits my idea of a Mando rather well, not sure how good a Mando he actually is, though. 8-}

    Kal Skirata.
    I like the way he considers all Mandos to be 'his own', and still fights them if necessary; even kills them. (Yes, I am still grappling with the fact that Mandos just kill each other.:p )
    So, how common would that kind of attitude be? [face_batting]
  17. Gratulor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2008
    star 2
    My theory on that issue is that they wouldn't kill each other if there wasn't the Cuy'val dar. I'm sure the Protectors saw that as an act of betrayal, fighting for another government than their own when in a war and disobeying the call of the Mand'alor. I think that's a pretty valid reason, and I think Kal realizes that what he's doing can be seen as very treacherous to the other Mandalorians.

    A character of mine is a former Death Watchman, and so a lot of his peers see him as a demoralized man and some avoid him. But as he followed the Mand'alor to war in the Clone Wars, the trust in him strengthened as he's doing something for the Mandalorian people as a whole - Defend the clan, and rally to the cause of Mand'alor when called to arms.

    He wouldn't think twice before killing a Cuy'val dar though, as he sees that as the ultimate act of betrayal to the Mandalorian people, to train the enemy war machine. Just as others wouldn't think twice before killing a Death Watchman in the Civil War. That's at least how I see it, but that's based on how the average Mando would think.

    I'd say pretty common after the Mandalorian Wars, when the Mandalorians began hiring out their skills to the highest bidder. Prior to that, they had a common agenda they followed and didn't question that.

    -

    Just noticed one reply, and had to add to this body. By the Sith War, the Mandies were a lot more brutal and didn't see anything wrong in spilling blood of outsiders as long as they fought back. It was considered honour back then to fight in a battle against an enemy that would have the odds with them. They worshiped war, of course - using a set of morals called the canons of honour, using alongside the resol'nare no doubt. :D

    By the Mandalorian Wars, there were only a handful of Taungs left - and so they had to begin recruiting from outside sources. They took in volunteers and children left on the battlefield. Also, Mandalorians of that time never had prisoners and didn't take them - they only had dead enemies or new additions. That would include everything from businessmen to farmers to criminals. They were violent crusaders who showed no mercy. If the enemy wouldn't fight head on and honourably, they would wipe out the planet population. Eventually, the Taungs died out - showing how their canons supported the species. :p

    After the war, however, they were disbanded and scattered everywhere - and they began adopting new way of life as Mercenaries. That's when they began to change completely. So no, they weren't at any time moral in our sense of the word - they always were violent and brutal. If anything, they developed a much more acceptable way of life after that war, and much more outsider friendly.
  18. moosemousse CR - FF:UK South

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2004
    star 6
    I have something to ponder. I've been talking to someone who has a mishappen Mando figure, one of the legs is slightly too short. If it was a real Mando we speculated that one leg could be too short because they lost a leg in battle and the only false leg they could get was the wrong lenght. But what kind of Mando would that be, and how would they lose their leg? [face_thinking]
  19. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Here's my first addition, soon to be updated with a trip to Mandalore.:)


    Title: Tarfang and the City of Lost Jedi
    Author: Robimus
    Timeframe: 43 ABY
    Characters: Tarfang, Jae Juun, Baltan Carid, Natasi Daala, Kyp Durron +
    Locations: Corucant, Mandalore+
    Genre: A little of this, a little of that

    Mando words:
    Buir=Father
    Aruetiise=foreigner
    Osik'la=Screwed up
    Kad=Sword
    Keldabe=Principle City of Mandalore

    * A little touch of "R" rated stuff in chapter 1. Be warned. Linky below....

    http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=28872356&brd=10477&replies=0

    Edit:

    MsLanna, are your wonderful Haleen Stories linked in here ?[face_batting] Cause if they aren't they should be.:D



  20. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    Yeah, somebody write that story please. I wonder, too.[face_batting]

    Rob, Haleen is about clones, not Mandos. :) A fine distinction but important?
    Maybe once the war is over... :D If everything goes according to plan, Haleen will end up Mando for sure. I just have to make sure Ms. Traviss doesn't kill the guy I chose for her.:p
  21. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    MsLanna.....
    Well, OK then. :(. But I am of the Kal Skirata mindset on the issue, however much I dislike the old atin buir . The choice is yours, of course.:)
  22. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    There is an index for clone fics...

    And what about Kal'buir?
    Usually people seem just to love him. You got me curious now. Care to explain?[face_batting]
  23. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    That old chakaaryc? :p. Love the character, but hate the man.

    Kal is hyprocrisy personified to me. First he accepts payment to train the Clones, then falls in love with the little buggers. All the while he never takes the time to think about what they would be used for? That he was training them to go out and die?

    Also his disdain for the Jedi comes across as extremely harsh, when the Jedi are really the only organization that would have the ability to help the Clones in the long run. Yet he condemns them, unable to see past the end of his own nose.[face_liarliar]

    Also, how does Kal associate no blame to Jango Fett for the Clone Army? Or any of the Cuy'val Dar for that matter? They are just as implicated in the crime as the Republic is.

    I feel for Kal's point of view about the Clones, but can't agree with it. Are the Clones better off with Kal Skirata supporting them? Maybe, but I really feel like Kal's desrie to help the Clones is only an effort to unburden himself from his own guilt, rest of the galaxy be damned. The only way to really save all the Clones would be to appeal to the Jedi and attempt to force change, instead he hates on them for doing nothing more than he did himself.....

    ....does sny of this make sense?[face_hypnotized].......:p. I find that the Jedi are as much victems of the Clone Wars as the Clones are and I think Kal is blind not to see it. Of course I find KT writes him that way, so thats how I take him. "Blade [face_cowboy] " has many good qualities also, but I find myself wondering if he will ever really open his eyes and smell the reality.........

    :oops: Sorry, long rant.......
  24. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    No long rant and it's making perfect sense.:D

    I have a long complicated answer to that, but I just can't get it straight.8-}
    Kal's ambiguity incarnate. He seems to be at odds with himself a lot. I like that fact that he is nor really making sense, except in his own head. I think that's normal.
    There is little evidence he even tried to help the clones through official lanes, that's right. But, OOU, we know it wouldn't help him any if he managed to get the Jedi to do something for the clones because Palps wipes them out...:oops:

    I think it did come as a surprise that the commandos he had to train were children to start with. I'd expect grown men if I got an offer like that too. Still, there is no hint that he ever really rebelled against his position, IIRC, he even shot a few of his own clones. That would make one troubled conscience indeed.:p
    I think Vau points out that the clones turned into a kind of quest for Skirata, and even Kal doesn't know what to do once his vendetta is over. [face_thinking] Maybe Kal just dies trying to save some. Would save him loads of trouble, too.O:)

    I think his 'rest be damned' attitude is great. Not very politically correct but it is appealing.[face_blush]
    Care for your own. Damn the rest.
    Very Mando.:D

  25. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    You sum him up well.:) He is a complicated man, and I am extremely interested to see how he'll be affected by Order 66.
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