All things Buffy and Angel; ep by ep rewatch and reviews

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by saturn5, Aug 29, 2009.

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  1. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    For my own amusement and because all my favourite TV shows keep getting cancelled (My Name is Earl, Reaper, Terminator;SCC)going to rewatch all of Buffy and Angel on DVD ep by ep. Please read, chip in, ignore as you see fit. All discussion welcome

    The Buffy Movie

    Lets start off where it all began with Kristy Swanson and Luke Perry back in 1992.

    The Good
    Kristy is lovely, perhaps even more so than SMG, especially in her nightie. Love the scene where she rides the motorbike and some of the valleytalk. Principal Murray is also funny as is the 'What time is it?' gag. Love the idea that 'PMS is our secret weapon'
    Paul Ruebens is good especially his death scene. And that's pretty much it

    The Bad
    Personally I think both Merrick and Lothos are way over the top. The Buffy/Pike relationship lacks credibility although it's interesting to think about Buffy/Oz? Angel is sorely missed. Kristy's lovely but nowhere near as good an actress as SMG. The finale is also not up to much. It's an OK film but it lacks verve

    The Other
    Quite a cast, double Oscar winner Hilary Swank, Ben Affleck, Ricky Lake etc. Reputedly Seth Green has a small role but I've never spotted him. You can certainly see the beginnings of the Buffy characters here;
    Pike=Oz
    Jennifer=Cordy
    Kimberly=Harmony
    Andy=Xander
    Cassandra=Willow (although she dies!)
    Murray=Flutie
    No Ford from 'Lie to Me' though. The only characters to cross from the movie to the series are Buffy, Joyce, Hank and Merrick (in flashback in Becoming pt2). Joyce's 'What time?' line to Buffy is also repeated there but in a very different context. Joyce remarks to Buffy in 'Fear Itself' that she's not the social butterfly she used to be and also in WTTH that she's read parenting books.
    I saw Luke Perry in 'When Harry Met Sally' with AH and he was very good (and certainly still a hit with the girls). A shame we never see Pike again in the series although he does return in the comics. I don't really think the romance between him and Buffy works, we sorely miss Angel/Spike. If you look at the video cover it has both him and Kristy, by the time it comes out on DVD it's just her.
    Buffy later describes her pre-Slayer personality as Cordelia-like and she is. Ironically Merrick quotes Corinthians about putting away childish things but it's by clinging to her non-slayer life that Buffy is the most successful Slayer ever. She does recall the memories of past Slayers just as Dana does in Damaged so this is presumably something shared by all Slayers
    Buffy says she aims to graduate, go to Europe, marry Christian Slater and die. By the end of Angel she's done 3 out of 4 (wouldn't it have been cool if they got the Immortal to be played by Christian Slater?)
    Now of course if Normal Again is real then Buffy's delusion starts at the point she 'meets' Merrick and ends at the final scene of Chosen (the Buffy comics her dreams and/or perhaps she writes them for a living?). On the plus side although none of her Sunnydale characters exist it means that folks like Cassandra she based them on are still alive so she still has her Scooby-Gang and both parents when she gets out of the asylum. And she can always find a new Faith and Angel/Spike and name her daughter Dawn.
    Lots of continuity changes. Vamps don't dust and can fly. Buffy doesn't miss the heart first time out as she later claims. It's much more overtly christian with the Slayer clearly god's instrument. Buffy has a built in vamp-detector which is alluded to in the series but not so strongly.
    More cruelty to cats!
    Good soundtrack from the Divinyls, they also did 'I touch myself' which Buffy recalls listening to in 'Lie to Me'

    Questions;
    Merrick says he is reincarnated but is that just him or all Watchers?
    Do Faith and co all have the birthmark Buffy had removed?
  2. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    WTTH


    The Good; Great opening scene, straight from every slasher flick ever but with a Joss twist. Brian Thompson is an excellent villain with a real sense of menace about him as anyone who saw him on the X-files can tell you. He plays a very similar role in the excellent Fright Night pt2. The Master is pretty OTT but like Darth Vaders first appearance in Star Wars you really get the sense this is the baddest guy in the universe and no mistake.

    The bad; not much although it's early days yet. The one thing they could have improved upon is putting Eric Balfour in the opening titles, when you don't see him it's a big clue that Jesse isn't going to make it

    Best lines; Instantly fell in love with Giles when he states that "You didn't hone". Also a good one from Xander when he recovers Buffy's stake "All I can think of is that you're building a really small fence"

    Observations and questions; And here we have the REAL Willow although we'll never again see her so nerdy, from now on she dresses more like Cassandra from the movie. We also never see Buffy wear either her Jehovah Witness dress or her PVC number which is a shame on both counts. Nonetheless both Buffy and Cordy dress scandalously in these early eps, obviously going for the ratings. Darla is also lovely although she really does look too old to be a schoolgirl. But everyone looks SO young. SMG is a little more voluptuous and DB is a lot thinner and it suits both of them
    We see Buffy's vamp sense again but it now seems more based on her fashion taste than cramps. Presumably Aura who has the dead guy in her locker is the same girl who calls Cordy in the Angel ep 'Rm w/a vu'? (Do the Cordettes stay constant or do they change over time?)
    Cordy has a mobile phone! We won't see one of those again until season 1 of Angel and the Sunnydale Scoobies won't have them until season 7
    Another point against Normal Again, Buffy doesn't want to be the Slayer and is trying to leave her past behind her. Presumably either the council or PTB arranged Joyce's job in Sunnydale? Buffy/Cordy fancy James Spader presumably for Pretty in Pink (although that's an 80s film when Cordy and Buffy would both have been toddlers). You wonder what they thought of him in S&M fest 'Secretary' although considering what both get up to in later seasons maybe that would be ok with them (or they'd like him MORE?). Still I guess Buffy is over her Christian Slater phase?
    Who's John Tesch?
    A strong opener that hints at great things to come but not overtly brilliant in itself, I'll give it 3/5

  3. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Excellent idea. I always felt people ripped on the movie too much. Usually, they were fans of the TV show first and saw the movie later. Yeah, it has holes and flaws, but it wasn't like they had the huge fan following or any expectation of developing one--maybe a sequel, but that's about it.

    Pike also appeared in at least one novel (don't ask me which one) by Nancy Holder and Debbie Viguie.
  4. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    I saw the movie in the theater, didn't like it much, and so gave the first season a pass when it first aired. Imagine my surprise on randomly watching an episode one day to discover how good the series was! I'm not a huge fan or anything, but I think the show was terrific, funny, well-written, usually with excellent action sequences and amusing subtext.
  5. madman007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 4
    All right! I'm so glad I found this site! Big Whedon fan of Buffy. My all time favorite show!

    A few points I'll add my thoughts on.

    Seth Green was in the original movie, but his scenes were all cut. Ironically, it wasn't the first time Oz and Willow dated. Seth and Allyson were girlfriend/boyfriend in the movie My Stepmother Is An Alien.


    Buffy says she aims to graduate, go to Europe, marry Christian Slater and die. By the end of Angel she's done 3 out of 4


    If you follow the extended season 8 in comics, Buffy and the new band of Slayers are stationed in Germany. So she did manage to get to Europe. Still no Slater though.

    Buffy doesn't miss the heart first time out as she later claims.

    She doesn't in the movie, but in Amends, when Angel watches Buffy in L.A. kill her first vamp, she does miss the heart. I don't know how much from the movie they made canon but this scene wasn't.

    No Ford from 'Lie to Me' though.

    If you remember, Buffy knew Ford from like 4th or 5th grade. So they may not have been close in high school.

    The movie was written by Joss, but the studios didn't like the direction he was taking it. So they had a director who changed it into a cult dark comedy which Joss didn't like and didn't want anything more to do with it.

    When the TV series began, I was skeptical about the movie being turned into a series. I remember SMG once said she was having dinner with the Sutherland's back before the show started and she told Kiefer that they were in production and he was surprised saying, "They're making that movie into a tv series? Don't worry, they'll be other shows." Hee, wonder what he thought of the show 7 years later while he was doing 24?

    I was pleasantly surprised at WTTH as it had everything all in one show. Drama, comedy, action, horror. I loved SMG as Buffy much better than Swanson. Even in the early years, SMG brought a hidden intelligence to Buffy. I liked the future friends in Xander and Willow and the villainess in Cordy. It seemed to have more than I expected and I decided to stay with it. I'm so glad I did!


    btw, a few friends of mine have created our own Buffy Nite on Sundays at 10pm est on the IM www.paltalk.com. We synchronize our DVD players to watch an episode and comment on them (namely Willow's lack of fashion sense). Currently we just started season 7. If you're interested in joining us, PM me.

    Grrr....Arrrg!
  6. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    Thanks for the invite but using this rewatch to gradually wean myself off the series

    The Harvest

    The Good;
    Never suspected they'd turn Jesse and was shocked when they killed him (Xander bags his first vamp, it'll take Willow and Cordelia 2 whole seasons to kill their first). The fight at the end is terrific especially Buffy's trick and 'give me the Speilberg (such a shame that there are no more commentaries on season 1, roll on Buffy Special Edition DVDs). Love Willow's trick on Cordy and we have Harmony for the first time (here unnamed). Willow hacks for the first time.
    Great scenes with the hand trying to pull Buffy back into tunnels (Xander saves her for the first time?) whilst the sun going down has never seemed quite so menacing not to mention Darla skipping along to the Bronze.

    The bad;
    The vamps seem affected by the all too common slow moving monster syndrome. Also all the bodies disappear from the Bronze at the end whilst considering they're supposed to be lifelong friends Willow and Xander seem to forget about Jesse awfully quickly. Also considering we later establish what a formidable vamp Darla is Willow seems to overcome her awfully easily with just a jar of holy water

    Best line;
    Willow; I need to sit down
    Buffy; You are sitting down
    Willow; Oh, good

    Questions and observations; the vamps look slightly different to what we later see, their skin more mottled and talons more pronounced. We later see in The Wish that whilst the Harvest would have been bad it wouldn't have been the end of the world. Is it Cordy who bumps into Jesse and forces him onto Xander's stake? I must say I'd never seen the supposed gay subtext between the Master and Luke until it was pointed out by Joss but now it seems impossible to miss
    8/10 solid Buffy

  7. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    The Witch

    The good;
    Amy for the first time, yay! And even now she's still appearing in season 8. I always thought if Will died she'd have been a good replacement. Buffy looks sensational in her cheerleading gear, a shame we'll never see her in it again (and we won't see the costume again until Dawn digs it out in season 7). Willow gets more hands on with the axe and we have our first case of Wicca although it's a very dark variety. The African fertility statue gag is the first sign of the saucy humour Buffy and Angel will become famous for. Lovely scenes between Buffy and Joyce both at breakfast and in closing. I gotta say, I didn't see the twist at all.

    The bad;
    What happens to the poor girl whose mouth sealed up? Presumably all the aspects of Amy's mum's magic stop once she is defeated.

    Best lines;
    Willow; That girl's on fire!
    Cordy; Enough with the hyperbole

    Giles; Why would anyone want to hurt Cordelia?
    Willow; Maybe they met her?

    My favourite though;
    Xander; I laugh in the face of danger. Then I hide until it goes away

    Observations and questions; Presumably Amy mom dies properly when the school blows up and passes to the afterlife. Willow is already beginning to dress less nerdy. We see Giles' car for the first time, the Citreon whilst a design great seems a weird choice for him, a 60s Jag maybe more his thing. Xander's Buffy obsession continues to grow. No Angel, you sometimes forget he's not in all the eps of season 1. At exactly what point do Amy and her mum swap bodies? Cordy hasn't passed her driving test yet but that changes by the end of the season
    6/10

  8. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    Teacher's Pet

    The good;
    Sex raises it's ugly head in the Buffyverse and it's all the better for it. A lovely little bit between Buffy and her teacher (who is also in The Witch) and although a minor character you feel the loss for both Buffy and Giles (we know Buffy is a bright girl when she applies herself and here it's made clear that she's not just some blonde airhead). Angel's back although compared to what Buffy faces later this vamp is small change, he seems to talk it up rather unnecessarily, maybe it's just an excuse to see Buffy again. Some lovely humour around Xander and his teenage lust, especially love his Bronze fantasy.

    The bad;
    Really the She-Mantis itself, when you compare it to some of the monsters from the later seasons it really does look awful. This ep is really a filler ep, very much 'monster of the week', it's fun but if Buffy had kept up this sort of ep it would never have become the great series it is

    Best line; Xander (looking at Miss French's cleavage) "It's a beautiful chest...I mean dress"

    Questions and observations; Giles shows interest in a woman for the first time, if he hadn't I must say I thought he might be gay? Flutie takes everyone to see the counsellor, is that the same one Buffy goes to see in 'Beauty and the Beast'? In 'Doomed' Willow says she's always the one to find the bodies but actually it seems more often to be Cordy. The Sunnydale Police are also hunting the claw handed vamp, the last time they do anything useful in the history of the series. Maybe that vamp was an enemy of the Mayor's? This story is an interesting reversal of fictional norms, how often do you see the heroine racing to save the boys from losing their virginity to the villain and not the other way around? What happens the eggs? Presumably Buffy and co deal?

    3/5 I think but that may be a little generous
  9. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    Never Kill a Boy on a First Date;

    The Good;
    Great misdirection, you really never figure who the annointed is whilst Vorba is a truly frightening figure. Cordy and Buffy fighting over Owen is FANTASTIC! The fight at the funeral home is also excellent. And how often do you see 'Emily Dickenson' in a US teen show? (almost impresses Giles) The lovely scene between Buffy and Giles at the end. Buffy's green and white dress doesn't make her look fat but does make her look like a brazen hussy. The changing scene with Buffy, Willow and Xander is also funny

    The bad;
    So, when a vamp disolves why do it's clothes disintegrate and the ring etc doesn't? I always thought the idea was when a vamp dies the body returns to a natural state of decomposition but that doesn't seem the case as even newly made vamps dust.

    Best line; (after Cordy knocks the cup over) "Boy, Cordelia's hips are wider than I thought!" OOOOOOOHHHH!
    The iconic; "Bite me!"
    Cordy upon seeing Angel "Hello salty goodness!" (which are also her first words as an amnesiac in Spin the Bottle upon sighting Angel/Liam)

    Observations and questions;
    We never see Owen again although he appears in a lot of the establishing shots of Sunnydale High. I guess the show only has room for one brooding loner guy? Check out Willow's expression when she and Xander pretend to be a couple. Also Willow digs Owen which is more grounds to assume she's bisexual rather than just lesbian. Someone actually borrows a book from the library? Giles must have had to sit down with shock. Being a Watcher seems to run in famillies

    Good ep, 6 and a half out of 10
  10. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    The Pack

    The Good;
    Love Buffy and Giles training, you get a genuine sense of menace when Willow is taken hostage for the first time. You' don't see the twist of the zookeeper, he seems so rational although I'm baffled as to what exact power he hoped to gain from the hyena spirits (then again I don't really understand why the Mayor wished to be this big snake?). Great acting from Nic Brendon showing the first of his range (in truth neither Nic nor David are that good actors in season 1 but they grow better)

    The Bad;
    The story is pretty stupid, reminds me of an obscure old series called 'Big Wolf on Campus'

    Best Line;
    Giles; Xander is becoming a teenage boy, you'll have to kill him of course

    Questions and observations;
    The first time someone is imprisoned in the library book cage but by no means the last. Xander trying to force himself on Buffy is unusually disturbing, for a feminist symbol she seems to get sexually assaulted a lot (but maybe that's the point?). Another Buffy cliche is a Scooby going evil (by the end of season 7 I think the only characters never to have gone bad were Tara and Giles?). Jennifer Sky plays one of the pack and she was very good as Amarice in Xena (so you can link Buffy to Xena in one if you're ever playing 'Six degrees of Bufferation'. No Cordy (there really isn't room for her) and no Angel. At this point of course he's not a fighter, he really is just cryptic warning guy but of course that really kicks in during the next ep

    not the best, 4/10

  11. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Wow, this is great. A fan's catalog of episodes, replete with learned insight into the characters and events, and a smattering of TV lore to intrigue those (like me) who are not steeped in the Buff-verse. Keep it coming!!
  12. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    Thanks you're too kind, take my advice and steep yourself in the Buffyverse, next best thing to Star Wars

    Angel;

    The Good;
    Awesome fight scenes with both The Three and at the Bronze. Lovely stuff with Buffy intrducing Angel to Joyce, wonderful scene between Angel and Darla hinting at great things to come. I love Joyce's denial over the barbecue fork and Cordy's rage over the girl in the same dress. The big shock that Angel is a vampire which I must say I didn't see coming at all (he gives Buffy a cross in WTTH but it's in a box!). Love the diary misunderstanding too and the shock of Buffy coming home to see a bleeding Joyce in Angel's arms.

    The Bad;
    The Master's killing of The Three (lame name or what?) is stupid. Also they seem to give up awfully easily, that or Joyce just walks right past them? (maybe they know better than to mess with momma Summers?)

    Best line;
    Buffy "Stay the hell away from us!"

    Observations and questions;
    Anyone else disturbed by The Master's relationship with The Anointed? Joyce is the first cast member to be bitten by a vamp (although despite being a huge part of the series she's never actually a Scooby) whilst Angel is the first to be shot. Why don't vamps use guns more often? According to Joss it goes against their demonic nature. We have Xander dancing, always a treat. Angel kills his first vamp onscreen although we later learn he's killed at least 2 prior to this. The first of the many deaths of Darla

    Here Buffy really kicks into high gear, the Buffy/Angel romance is set on it's course, we see the Darla/Angel relationship for the first time, it turns an OK show with an attractive cast into a brilliant show
    10/10

  13. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    'I Robot, You Jane'

    The Good;
    Buffy's undercover look is hilarious. Here's Jenny, yay! The final scene with Buffy, Willow and Xander, sitting on the step bemoaning their lovelessness is WONDERFUL!

    The Bad;
    The robot Moloch simply looks stupid, not as bad as the mantis but close

    Best Line;
    Giles; I'll be back in the middle ages
    Jenny; did you ever leave?

    Observations and questions;
    No Cordy or Angel. Some pretty strong stuff here, necks being broken, Fritz self-harming (a topic we'll see again in Blood Ties) and Dave hanging himself. Willow's first boyfriend although you might note that Will has a picture of herself and Giles in her locker. Of course it's twelve years ago so all the computer equipment seems just unbelievably clunky. Xander refers to his uncle working at the computer firm, is that the infamous Rory? Ironically given that the younger Scoobies end the episode bleakly contemplating the future alone here Giles his future girlfriend.
    Are the monks who trap Moloch the same ones that create Dawn? ( they do nice work!)
    Possible the weakest ep of season 1; I'll give it 4/10
  14. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    The technology terms in this episode were horrible, as was the general knowledge of how computers work. "an e-Letter"??? It's like the writers read a William Gibson novel's cover summary, and decided it would make a good Buffy plot. It would have taken a few seconds of research to fix the more gaping holes in tech terminology. "Technopagan" UUUUuurrrgghhhh. The Pain! The Pain! These writers are the sort that created/justified all the negative stereotypes of Mac-users.

    Interestingly, the writers of this are also responsible for the second-worst episode of season one--invisible girl, and were not hired to write any more buffy episodes again. Ever. Guess Joss saw the lameness and put them on the "Don't call us, we'll call you" list.
  15. hansen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2003
    star 4
    For those enjoying this thread, I can recommend reading through these two over at the Amphitheatre: Buffy & Angel.

    If I hadn't already contributed to those two I probably would participate heavily in here.
  16. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    Really, I didn't know that? We'll discuss it at the time but I rate OOSOOM MUCH MUCH higher than IRYJ. I think it really is the lame technology which lets it down

    Nightmares;

    The Good;
    Buffy's dreams of the Master are truly terrifying as is his burying her alive which of course she'll experience for real in Bargaining. Giles' fear of not being able to read and Buffy dying are also excellent. Willow's stagefright and Cordy joining the chess club/bad hair brigade are utterly hilarious. It rather reminded me of the ep of Sabrina;TTW where Sabrina places a spell on her arch enemy Libby the haughty cheerleader turning her into a nerd only for Libby to become Queen of the nerds and start mocking the less clever. Semi-naked Nic Brendon who in the great comedy tradition wears embarassing boxer shorts. Some great CGI giant wasps. The Joyce/Buffy scenes. The tough guy whose mum turns up at school (don't know who he is but he resembles a character from Grease?)

    The Bad;
    The scene with Buffy and her dad is just too cruel. Apart from that, not much.

    Best line;
    Almost Xander's; Your balloon animals were pathetic!
    But the winner is Joyce; Your father loves you dear but no more than I do

    Observations and questions;
    Xander suffers clourophobia (fear of clowns) whilst Willow suffers arachnaphobia (although she faces down a giant spider in season 7). He also fancies a teacher called Miss Tishler demonstrating his fondness for older women again. Willow says that there is marital tension in her house (and as we later learn in Xander's also). The Master says he met the last Slayer, did he kill her?
    Here we have confirmation that Buffy was born in 1981 and is 15 turning 16 in this ep (so shame on you if you fancied her up to this point ) This begins the long tradition of disasterous birthdays for Buffy. First appearance of Hank Summers in the show. The only time we'll ever see Buffy as a vamp but she's still Buffy. You wonder if this is because it's just a nightmare and she's not truly been sired or even if a Slayer becomes a vamp that they're not evil, they're still the Slayer?
    Great ep, 8 and half out of 10 again

  17. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    The Puppet Show;

    The Good;
    The introduction of Snyder. Cordy's performance and the hair gag with Giles. The triple Keyser Soze, Buffy's relationship with Sid. The exciting finale, Snyders reaction to it and the Scoobies scene at the end. Don't you just love the fact that Buffy the superhero runs into her mum's arms when she get's scared in the night? Something only a female hero could do, what would we think of Clark Kent if he did that on Smallville?

    The Bad;
    Not much, a very strong episode, easily one of the best of the first season

    Best line;
    Buffy; Euuuugghhhh, dummy! They freak me out, ever since I was little.
    Willow; What happened?
    Buffy; I saw a dummy, it freaked me out, there really wasn't a backstory there
    (anyone else reminded of Gremlins?)

    Observations and questions;
    Our first hint that there are other individuals fighting the forces of darkness like Whistler and Doyle. The scene the Scoobies perform at the end is from Oedipus which Angelus references in season 4 of Angel. It was painted by Grant Wood who Riley refers to in season 4. Cordy sings 'The Greatest Love of all' which she also sings for Lorne on Angel. She hasn't the best voice. Giles in bondage, the first of a long line of Scoobies to be tied/chained up. Snyder obviously going to be a lot harder on Buffy than Flutie was although as an authority figure that probably works better for the series. At this point though he doesn't really seem to know what's going on (does he ever?). Flutie was a nice guy but has the misfortune to be the 2nd recurring character killed in the course of the series. The police put the butcher knife in a plastic bag? Don't they have some better form of container? Willow suffers from stage fright. Willow is clever enough to know that 841 has a square root of 29 but how does Xander know that to ask her? A shame Joyce doesn't come to the talent show. Will plays the piano?

    One of the best eps of season 1, I give it 9 out of 10
  18. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    Out of sight, out of mind;

    The Good;
    One of the best allegories yet for High School as hell. Real sense of menace to the knife floating behind Buffy although from what we've seen since it probably didn't pose a real threat to her. Cordelia starts to come more and more into her own here and some funny stuff from Snyder

    The Bad;
    Not much, very strong episode

    Best line;
    Cordelia; Oh my god, is she really wearing Laura Ashely?

    Worst line;
    Willow; Mitch was attacked by a floating bat?
    Xander; Maybe it was a vampire bat? (GGRRRoooaaannn!)

    Questions and observations:
    So, the goverment know what's going on in Sunnydale and are exploiting it to their own ends? We see the beginnings of the Initiative here. A sign of the times that Marcie at the end is training to assasinate cult leaders as this was just after Waco. Nowadays of course she'd be after Osama and co. Interesting that the group are doing The Merchant of Venice, Marcie easily resembles the figure of Shylock.
    If you've ever watched the DVD commentary for The Grudge SMG remembers the guy who played Ford in 'Lie to Me' appearing on Buffy but not Clea Duvall. Rewatching the ep you realise that she never has any scenes with visible Marcie so they probably never met. Harmony again, named for the first time. Cordy has passed her driving test to judge by her story of running the girl on the bike over. The scene where the teacher is nearly smothered by the plastic bag is HORRIBLE. First meeting between Giles and Angel. Cordy, Buffy, Willlow and Xander are all knocked out, the start of a grand scooby tradition. Ironically Giles who is so notorious for it stays conscious. Cordy and Buffy are also tied up, another Buffy cliche that will see much use. How exactly does Marcie get Cordy and Buffy to the Bronze? I gotta say, if faced with the choice of being gassed or risking an explosion I'd take explosion every time
    If you'll pardon the pun it would have been lovely to 'see' Marcie again, maybe in season 7 Buffy could have been chained up and helpless only for her bonds to miraculously unravel? But if at her new school she's got friends etc won't she become visible again?
    I don't know if it's deliberate but the title reminds me of the story where Soviet premier Breshnev is meeting the US President Nixon and during the chitchat he asks where the vice-president Spiro Agnew is? (some form of demon according to Angel and Fred's dad). Agnew was keeping a low profile at the time as he was under investigation for corruption so Nixon replied, "Oh, you know, out of sight, out of mind'. Breshnev looks at Nixon oddly then hurriedly walked away whereupon Nixon's translator tells him that Breshnev's translator interpreted 'out of sight, out of mind' as 'Invisible maniac'
    Good ep, 8/10
  19. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    This is also the first episode where we get a hint that Cordy isn't as shallow as we initially thought...
  20. SoloKnight Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2003
    star 4
    I like to think of the government guys as being the predecessors to the Academy in Firefly...

    This is also the first time we get a villain that I can't help but feel sorry for. A tradition that will continue all throughout the series.
  21. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Sorry, but I gotta list that episode is about a 3/10, tops. Story was lame, and none of it was really revisited. Invisigirl didn't go to the military to become part of the Initiative, she was given to a Black-Ops Spy group. The Initiative would have disected her to find out what made her special enough to turn invisible, since she wasn't really fully human anymore.
    Aside from "Have we been ignoring you?" comment in season 6, nothing from this episode is ever revisited. It's a throw-away that should really have been thrown away. The end was lame.
  22. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    Actually there's a callback in season 7 where a girl at the new SDH is disappearing but Buffy rescues her. It is a good ep because it works on the level of a disaffected human rather then a supernatural entity and we see the Initiative here (what a shame they didn't slip in an X-files reference

    Prophecy Girl

    The Good;
    Buffy's unjustified (but very human) rant at Giles, the wonderful slow motion fight with the vamp whilst Cordy is parking with a guy. Buffy accepting her fate for the sake of her friends and family.The Buffy/Master confrontation and her final battle with him. Xander listening to country music, the white man's blues. Xander practicing on Willow and Willow consequently turning him down. Cordy and Will finding the bodies. Cordy's car trick and the girls fleeing in terror. The Buffy/Joyce scene. Love Buffy's dress.

    The Bad;
    The tentacles from the Hellmouth look pretty weak. Also I thought the boy who get's killed is the same one as in the last ep but it's not, Cordy seems to have a new guy every week. I always think that's lame on TV, characters get boyfriends/girlfriends one week who mean the world to them then they're forgotten about the next ep.

    Best line;
    Angel; I like your dress
    Buffy; Big hit with everyone

    Questions and observations;
    Buffy dies for the first time and is bitten by a vampire for the first but by no means the last time. Giles get's knocked out for the first time (by Buffy!). Jenny's back, yay! Presumably the reason Cordy is being so nice to Will and isn't mad at her boyfriend du jour is that it's one of the signs of the apocalypse?
    So if Buffy had died for real what would have happened? Presumably Angel would have defeated the Master? Or the Initiative? No offence to Kendra but I figure this would have meant that Faith would be the Slayer and consequently Dawn would be HER sister. Faith would never have gone bad and Joyce would get over her grief by adopting Faith and Dawn as her foster children. Even so, in the Buffyverse death isn't necessarily for ever...?
    Note that when Buffy comes back from the dead they play the show's theme full blast. According to Joss the theme starts off like a conventional horror theme but then kicks into rock and roll thrash because it signifies that Buffy and co won't conform to the horror stereotype, they won't take it any more. So we have Buffy dying just as the prophecy says, like all the Slayers before her but she rebels and comes back. If you wanted to see a feminist subtext, she refuses to be the victim, to accept the gender role assigned to her. I don't know if Joss intended it but someone at The Bronze once pointed out that the Scoobies are actually the cliched victims you'd find in any horror film, the sexy blonde, the athletic hunk, the bitca-y cheerleader, the hapless nerd, the wiseass jerk and the stuffy authority figure. But in Joss' show the victim's fight back and win.
    Angel has a phone and Giles' know's his number.
    Buffy actually says she feels stronger after Xander brings her back. She shouldn't of course, she should be weak as a kitten so maybe this is God's/the PTB's doing?
    Now of course, at the end of this we see the characters walk off into the sunset and we have no idea if there will ever be a second season? If the series had stopped there it would have been a good ending and fondly remembered, we'd assume the Hellmouth was closed and that our characters would go on to leave fairly ordinary lives. Except for Angel, of course?
    Couple of interesting lines. Xander says that if Willow is interested in Buffy she's playing it close to her chest. Cordy remarks that she doesn't know why she and Willow bother with boys and Willow agrees 'I hear you'
    10/10 even with the stupid tentacles

  23. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Oh, well, I stopped watching at the end of season 6. Sorry. Didn't know about that one.

    Some teenagers take dating and relationships seriously. Some don't.
    Cordelia obviousnly doesn't. She's very similar to Quinn Morgendorfer in that regard.

    Had Buffy Died:
    Angel would have challenged the Master and lost. The Master would have kept him around as an object lesson, and to entertain his minions. Willow and Xander would either be killed by the Hellmouth tentacles, or eventually bitten while trying to do Buffy's job. If Giles and others survived(and hopefully closed the Hellmouth), they would try to keep the vampire population in check as best they could. Kendra would have been killed by Spike and Druscilla to cure Dru. Faith would be called, but would run wild when her Watcher was killed. Would she ever arrive in Sunnydale? Who knows. Maybe the Initiative would show up and take an active role in suppressing rather than experimenting (though they might do that too) on the demons.
    The mayor might work with the Master, or might rescue the town by having him killed. Maybe he could invite Faith to take care of that little problem for him. Or, he could wait until he was full demon to take care of the competition. All non-conformist girls in town would be dead. So would a generation of the town's infants.
    I see that situation more like the Season 3 episode where Cordelia wishes Buffy had never come to Sunnydale.
  24. saturn5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2009
    star 4
    You have to watch season 7 for Dawn growing up alone. Go out and buy the DVDs right now!
    I don't think Faith could escape her Slayer destiny to save the world and everyone in Sunnydale (as Who Are You? proves). She defeats the Master and assembles her own Scooby gang from Larry, Jonathon, Amy, Harmony etc with Joyce overcoming her grief at losing Buffy by adopting her and eventually Faith' little sister, Dawn, as well.


    When she was bad;

    The Good;
    Buffy's 'Miss me' to the camera (which I inexcusably missed first time around). Xander and Willow's almost kiss (awwwwww! even the most foremost Tara/Willow or Willow/Oz fan must feel their heart breaking). Snyder and Giles' brilliant talk and walk and the first hints of Giles'/Jenny's attraction. Buffy's great training session with Giles, the incredibly creepy dream sequence where the Master-as-Giles tries to kill Buffy whilst Willow and Xander watch on unconcerned (she should have known it was a dream when Xander swapped his chocolate for an apple). The whole scene smacks of Freudian rape overtones, Buffy's father figure forcing himself upon her and penetrating her body with his fangs. Willow not being able to say the word B-I-T-C-H and Xander not being able to spell it (LOVE Giles' expression in this scene). The great Hank/Joyce scene (I figure this is the summer by the beach Dawn later refers to in Blood Ties), Cordy's sympathy with Buffy and characteristic bluntness about the truth about Sunnydale. The Buffy/Angel bedroom scene and the smoking-hot Buffy dancing with Xander at the Bronze. The trap and rescue of the Scoobies, Buffy's cathartic smashing the Master's bones, especially Buffy killing 2 vamps at once. All told, fan-bloody-tastic and a whole new start for Buffy.

    The Bad;
    The only thing I can find wrong with it is when the Scoobies figure out that Jenny is the vamps next target and rather than try to warn her just assume for no possible reason that they've already got her. Lazy writing! Also Willow wears her HORRIBLE yellow tights again

    Best line;
    Snyder; there are some things I can just smell, like a sixth sense
    Giles; actually that would be one of the five

    Questions and observations;
    So, you CAN bring a vampire back from the dead as we'll see later with Darla in Angel. One wonders why they don't try it more often but then with a few notable exceptions they don't really seem to care about one another so much. Joyce and Hank seem to have a pretty civilised divorce.
    The whole look and feel of this ep is different, as though the first season was just a trial run and now it's time for the real thing to begin. Firstly, we have all the Scooby's except Buff and Angel knocked out and all but Buffy, Angel and Xander tied up. Secondly rewatching this ep you're very much struck by the sight of Buffy torturing the vamp for information to save her friends, ramming a silver cross down it's throat, the vampire equivalent of a red-hot poker. HMMMMMM?
    Kinda puts 'waterboarding' and Abu Grahib in persepctive, huh? Psychologists (and yes, that's the degree I'm doing in case you're wondering) have occaisionally commentated on the way people object to torture in real life but are ok with it in fiction (Dirty Harry springs to mind). What they suggest is that we find it easier to accept when we can put a human face to those who are going to be saved, in TV and movies the correlation between the info gained and benefits are always very direct and evident

    10/10, now we're talking


  25. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Given that I thought season 4 was lame, 5 was bad, and 6 was horrid, no, I'm not going to buy 7. They are, however, somewhere in my netflix queue, in a low priority.
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