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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Alliance to Restore the Republic = Terrorists Trying to Overthrow the Empire

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Brandon Rhea, Jul 12, 2005.

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  1. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005


    it depends on each person point of view,

    in my point of view, the Rebels are Terrorists but ofcourse it is hard to imagine them as Terrorists b/c they dont have beards and b/c they have a cause, which Terrorists in the real world supposbly dont have

    any act of rebellion of insurgent against the central government is terrorism

    in the real world, its called terrorism, but its understandable that those SW fans that are George Bush lover's cannot compute such facts


    * at one point in history, Napoleon Empire covered also Spain, when itdid the spanish people rebel aganist Napoleon and his puppet regime in Spain, thus they became terrorist in the eyes of the imperial government of Napoleon. in our eyes they were heroes who rose to defy the Grand Armee, even though they decapitated the captured French soldier/civilian at will

    * at one point in history, US influence covered also Iraq, when itdid the iraqi people rebel aganist US occupation and their puppet regime in Iraq, thus they became terrorist in the eyes of the US government. in the eyes of an Iraqi, they were heroes who rose to defy the US war machine, even though they decapitated the captured US soldier/civilian

    * at one point in history, British Empire influence covered also north America, when itdid the colonies in america (USA) rebel aganist British (War of Independence), thus they became terrorist in the eyes of the British CROWN. in the eyes of a Americans, they were heroes who rose to defy the mighty British Empire's war machine, even though they decapitated the captured British soldier/civilian


    it is really concept of how much world history education one has, where he is grown, wether he listens to FOX/CNN, or if he reads World History (meaning world history not West Civ. History)


    in a real world, there differnt kinds of ANIMALs ..
    there is that kind that straps bombs around his body and blows of school full of children, there is also another kind of ANIMAL wears "nice and shiny uniform" and from the comfort of his cockpit he pushed a button to drop his payload thus sealing the fate of 800 people. if something goes wrong "ohh..bad intelligence" and his hand is never dirtied. there is also another kind of ANIMAL, the one that wears a nice tie and suit seats in his nice office, where he signs a Decree condeming 1,000,000 people to death due to his sanctions,(his hands never gets diritied) there is also another kind of ANIMAL that seats in his ugly cave and sends hopeless young boys and girls to kill themselves for a fake cause

     
  2. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
    +



    in July 1944. a very brave and noble German caled Count von Stauffenburg finalized his plan to kill Hitler. the bomb went off but didnt kill the fuhere, the count and his buddies were later on executed by firing squad or they were hang by piano wires. b/c they decided to rid the world of Hitler.... how the America and UK rsponded to this acts of heroism?? "ohh ... those mutinous German officers (Stauffenburg and co.) were trying to appear as good german so that after the war they could seek asylum...". America and UK needed the face of evil of Hitler, it was important that he stays alive till he was captured and brought to justice, in the meanwhile the German people had to suffer from Hitler


    dont forget that the Great America supported along with the sneaky churchill the most disgusting regime that committed so much atroscity during the WWII. ..how about that... Stalin was 10 times more worse than Hitler... in churchill's own words "i will sleep with the devil so that i could get at Hitler" ... and i can assure that American involvment in that War was really crush the militarism of Germany, which from the American point of view was in their interest... Hitler's death camp and crimes were revealed after the War where its revelation made the WWII a nessecary war rather than another ugly war. A nessecary war to rid the europe from the tyranny of Nazi...thats all nice and fine....
     
  3. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005

    just b/c you hear one side of the story it doesnt make it so .... u think chechen have nothing than to go around and bomb school ...THINK .. what would u do

    what would u do .. if u saw your wife getting raped and gangbanged by russian drill sergents... what would u do when u see kid gets blown into pieces in his school by somme russian plane ...

    what would u do... would u go file offical complaint with United Nations ... or will u loose your head and yourself ...when u reach that stage nothing matters for you except a chance to get back at those people that took from you everything u ever loved. Even the most noble man, even the most dedicated and spirtial man, even the most educated man will succum when he looses everything around him....

    i suggest you go read more books on Chechen wars, and when u do try think why the hell the Russian used napalm on the Chechen capital in their invasion of 1999. WHO THE **** uses FLAME bombs on a city???


    well actually America did it to Tokyo (200,000 died or burned alived) also.. but thats a different story for another time ...
     
  4. Republic_Trooper

    Republic_Trooper Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Have you ever seen the movie "Red Dawn"? If not, go watch it, then you would see what I would do. I have no love for the Russians, believe me, all I'm saying is that peoples kids are off limits. And yes, the US fire bombed Tokeyo, but it was a valid military target. It was a major port and industrial center for the Imperial Japanese war machine, you know, the same military that was responsable for such atrocities ar the Rape of Nanking and the Batan Death March.
     
  5. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
    kids are off limit always, no question about it!!!

    all i am saying is when u hear one side of the story on CNN where some lunatic retard chechen or any other terrorist blows up a school or whatnot, the INHUMANITY of it dominates our way of thinking as audiance, thus disregarding the entire chechen as a russia's internal business, where they could do what the **** they want. decapitations by russian and chechen is quite common, i hear. but beilieve me most of these "terrorist" were once engineers, doctors, cops that lost everything they had .... perfect recruitment for the some dumbass terror-master in his cave

    Also make no mistake, the pilot who droppes a 2,000 Ib bomb killing 800 people is no better than the terrorist. the only difference for him the massacere was impersonal, for him it was just a button that he pushed, and he returns home as a warhero. Iam sure for most American they are just Top Guns, the best of the best, a ground to a make a good warmovie, blah blah...

    The 200,000 death in Nanking and elsewhere in China and and the Batan Death March in the philipinnes are both a direct result of the Japanese Army. thats is true...but how do u define valid target??? if an Iraqi working for the Iraqi intelligence smuggle a nuclear bomb (during the War tine) in USA in order to takeout San Diego and its harbor??? can i say thats valid military target, b/c for the Iraqi Gov its total war and thats a valid target???

    and really my friend, napalm is used for mass-burning which was the case for Tokyo sense the whole city was made of paper, the industrial plants you are talking about are not made of paper wall but bricks!!! i think judging from the type of the bomb used and that General Lemay was in charge of the American air war against Japan, its pretty obvious who was really the target!!!

    u see, i dont blame the american for bombing Tokyo or any other countries cities in a Declared War or an Undeclared War!! the way i learn from history, its just business. there is a political and military aim in doing so. everyting said in the media after the bombing is bull****. my only comment is that, dont cry when somebody else does it to you...
     
  6. Republic_Trooper

    Republic_Trooper Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    All good points, but back to the original topic. The Rebel Alliance is the legitimate heir to the Republic. Think of it as a government in exile, like Charles D'Gauls Free French in exile in the UK during WWII. Would you call the French troops who landed at Normandy with the other Allies terrorist? No, they were simply trying to restore the legitimate government. The Senators who helped Palpatine gain total power were no different than the French government officals who collaberated with the Nazis. So the Empire had no more legitimacy than Vichy France.
     
  7. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
    morally the Degaulle Free French are legitimate heir to the Third Republic
    just like ..
    morally the Rebel Alliance is the legitimate heir to the Galactic Republic

    however ...

    legally and technically speaking only ... and not taking EITHER sides by being mentally free of any anti-Empire or anti-Nazi feelings


    the French State of Marshal Petain was the legal new incarnation of the Third Republic
    just like ..
    the Galactic Empire was the legal new incarnation of the Galactic Republic




    let me post something that i previously posted somewhere else...


    in May 1804, the Senate voted to appoint First Consul Bonapart, who was the absolute dictator of france, as Emperor. few months later decemeber 1804, he was crowned in Notre-Dame as the
    "Emperor of the French Republic",

    N.B. Emperor of the French Republic NOT

    N.B. Emperor of the French Empire

    why? b/c it didnt matter the French Empire was the renamed French Republic and so on, which actually in 1808 the French Republic was offically renamed as the "French Empire"


    now go back to the french revolution in the late something 1890s ... the french monarchy of the House of Bourbon was completely uprooted by the revolution who installed a the "First Republic"
    similiar to the way Rebels uprooted the Imperials from Coresucant after the ROTJ, though the heir of House of Bourbon, Louis XVIII, was still the offical head of state (in-exile). However Napoleon's transformation of the Consulate to the Empire, was a change in name only, he had absolute power beforehand the only thing that change was the fact the Imperial Dignity became Heridetery, which means he could built a new burgois class and he could choose his son to be Heir.

    in ROTS, palpaine was already a dictator before he become emperor, (putting aside the fact that he changed the name of the Republic to Empire is really b/c of continuity for OT's Empire), but from my point of view he made himself appointed emperor so that he would be ruler for life, but he was already a dictator before that.


    the transformation of the Galactic Republic to Empire much like the transformation of the Consulate to the Empire and much like the transformation of the Third Republic to
    "Vichy" were all legal, if not morally right

    about the Leclerec's 2nd armour division landing on normandy, iam sure for ther German and the Vichy allies, they were insurgent and terrorist, eventhough morally (for me) they were noble soldiers tryng to rid of Europe form the nzai tyranny
     
  8. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
    btw the French Republic was militarly defeated in 1940, they use their powerfull Fleet in the Mediterean and the large colonial Empire as bargainig chips to secure an armisitse; there is nothing dishonorable about that; u see France was a hostage in German grip, and though u might call Marshal Petain a coward but i can assure but he did was for the secure the security of the country he dearly loved. he was over 80 years old and beyound any ambition for himself though he was surrounded by hawks such as pierre laval.


    if England was invaded by the Germans i can assure you they would have done the samething... they would have used their powerfull Fleet in the seas and the large colonial Empire as bargainig chips to secure an armisitse. why? not because they are coward, but because the destruction of English soil means more than anything to them
     
  9. Republic_Trooper

    Republic_Trooper Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    There's to much legal speak going on here. If Palpatine had ever been put on trial, this is probably what his defenses argument would be!;)
     
  10. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005

    hehehhe i know what u mean .... though i am too much into details and technical aspect of the past fallen dictators and empires, i can assure that much like you "I believe in Democracy, I believe in the Republic!", when it works atleast
     
  11. Republic_Trooper

    Republic_Trooper Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Not trying to bash the French here, but their decision to "bargin" with the Nazies still followes them around to this day. Here is an example, a friend told me this joke the other day, Q:"How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?"; A:"No one knows, none have ever tried!" Now, I know that this is not true, thousands upon thousands of French soldiers died in WWI, but but WWII, their military was largely intact when they surrendered. And I know for a fact that the British would have fought tooth and nail if the Nazies had invaded. No one has succesfully invaded the British Isles since 1066 AD, you don't get a tract record like that by "barganing".:cool:
     
  12. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
    well over a million died in WWI, and over 11,000 died during the German blitz in 1940, due to may reasons ranging from very poor leadership to faulty and outdated equipment and the perferanece of inaction BOTH by the British High Command, Lord Gort, and French, General Gamelin, High Command, who were both in charge of the defense of France. the failure falls on both of the High Commands. France was fully militarly defeated in a short amount of time. if the same would have on the British Isle as a hypothetical case, i can assure CHurchill government would fallen and they would sought an armistice because the Germany would be holding English soil as HOSTAGE, just as they held Franch soil as HOSTAGE. yeah no did the deed sense William the Conqueror, that is true but nevertheless if England island fell to the Germany army they would have sought peace, while a British general would have probably did the same thing Degaulle did with Free Britain.

    when i say bargaining i talking about the fact as clossus as the British Empire and the Royal Navy was, the fact that the acutal English soil is invaded, conquered and being held as a hostage by a hostile forgein army would have pushed British to sue for an armistice. the German after defeating the Anglo-French Army in 1940 didnt pushed for complete surrender of the French. WHY? because the French had a large clonial Empire and large naval force that was a threat to them if they join the British, thats why they agree for an armistice and did not push for complete surrender. samething, the german asking for a complete surrender of the British Empire is ridicoulus but if English soil is invaded and captured, that prize will push the British to cease military acticity.
     
  13. TCG

    TCG Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    witchking, it seems you are saying it's fine for terrorists to kill innocent people b/c, e.g. their "wife was raped by a russian drill sgt." why dont they just kill the drill sgt. in that case? are you saying its ok for them to kill people that had nothing to do with the rape of his wife? so if a russian drill sgt. raped my wife, would I be justified going around killing any russians i came across? or better yet, killing an entire school full of russian children. you seem to think so.

    that;'s the same principle that terrorists have. but terrorists INTEND to kill innocent people. the US military does NOT INTEND to kill innocent people. of course, it happens, but we dont celebrate when it does. terrorists think its right and should be done. if you love them and understand them so much, go ahead and live with them. let's see how long you last before they turn on you.

    and speaking of a couple things from history:
    WW2: did you realize that the US was planning to invade the japanese mainland in nov. 1945? this would have caused the deaths easily of 1 million+ people on both sides. or was it wrong to drop fire bombs and a-bombs? do you realize the japanese were saying they would fight to every last man, woman, & child before surrender? now how could u justify killing 1 million+ people as compared to 200,000 and end the war faster?

    USSR: u said the US knew about stalin's oppression of his own people. that is possible, but there was no extensive spy network like during the cold war. and did you really expect the US & britain to first defeat germany (in which we NEEDED Russia's help) and then just turn around and declare war on Stalin. that would have been the start of WW3! the world had already been at war for 6+ years. its very easy for you to say that we could just stop Stalin. the only way to stop that madman would have been to use military means. that would cost another millions lives.

    UK: you say they would have sued for peace if germany attacked them first and held their land hostage. i dont believe they would have. the luftwaffe bombed london almost every day and night for about 2 years!, and britain never tried to sue for peace.
     
  14. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
     
  15. DarthPoppy

    DarthPoppy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    One must remember where the word "terrorism" comes from: the French Revolution. The terror in question was carried out by the legitimate government: the Committee of Public Safety established by the National Assembly and the terror was committed against French citizens (eventually even against Maximillian Robespierre himself, the leader of the said body). So terrorism has nothing to do with whether it is committed by rebels or a legitimate government, it is merely a tactic used by one group to use deadly force against another to scare them into some form of submission. Whether it can be justified or not is always a question of point of view. Al Quaeda's brand of terrorism is just one example, one we can all condemn. The French Revolution has been debated since 1792 and other examples of the employment of terror are almost universally lauded (i.e. the violent acts of ANC in South Africa against apartheid or the Indian independance movement after WWII. So it has always been about point of view and who is killing who.
     
  16. TCG

    TCG Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    i didnt say that; but if it makes you feel better to imagine that i was saying that, go right ahead. what i was saying those people have better things to do blow up bombs if they had something worth living for; i was talking about the roots of terrorism. and no if a russian rape your wife you are not justified to do those things.
    so if anyone does not have something to live for, they can just go ahead and kill other people? so if I'm poor and homeless and suicidal, I have nothing to live for, i can feel free to kill people that i blame for my predicament???

    define innocent people and define terrorists; i will try to not offended by your remark of calling me terrorist lover; Acording to the U.S. Department of Defense Iran is a terrorist country, but its funny i was born there and lived there but they never turned on me and i lasted it long!!! Now i live in Canada for the past 12 years or and i have to say its one of best countries in everyway. but u see Canada doesnt go around bullying other countries into submission or spreading too much, whats that word? ahh 'democracy'. Thus they dont encourage the speard terrorism by their action. btw would 10-years of sanction against Iraq at a cost of 500,000 is maybe not "US military does NOT INTEND to kill innocent people" but it defintly is "US civilian gov. INTEND to kill innocent people". US backstabbing of the resistance movements against Iraq after 1991 War shows the true color of the US gov.
    it's amazing. when the US intervenes in an international situation, e.g. Somalia, Bosnia, many people accuse the US of only doing it for their own interests, and they should just stay out of other countriy's affairs. but when the US does not intervene, recently like in Nigeria, the same people say: "Why isnt the US helping those poor people out? they should go over there and help them. " well, you cant have it both ways. do u want the US to assist in international crises, because we are the most powerful nation, or should we just stay isolationist and never intervene with anyone outside our borders?

    yeah, it was called Operation "Olymapic". BUt please show where i disagreed with the nuclear bombing of the two cities??? nuclear bombings of the two cities as disguting as it is had an aim and purpose behind it, fire-bombing tokyo, a city made paper, did NOT.
    but just to be clear on one thing, if i want to fight a war against USA and i demand their unconditional surrender, which is ofcourse rejected, i can drop A-bombs as much as want BECAUSE i know that the great American people will fight to last man. is that correct???

    i didnt say you could drop as many a-bombs as you wanted. the US only had two at the time. the line would probably have to drawn somewhere, but again, it WAS better than an invasion.
    no one in the world wants to die (sorry, suicide bombers do, even though their koran supposedly prohibits suicide, AND murder, but i digress) because they've been brainwashed to think that THE WEST is the root of all evils in the world. its a perfect scapegoat.

    what do u mean that is possible??? Staling great purge of his own Red Army in 1937-38 by the NKVD was known around the world. But if the platform upon which you are fighting is to rid the world of tyranny of the Nazi, it looks lame when you ally yourself with the very samething type tyranny in order to destroy ther former .... trust me i dont blame USA and UK for did what they did. its a War. that the way it is. one day UK balme USSR for invading peacefull Findland in 1940, the next day they are kissing their asses....again i said before i have no problem with what means USA used to defeat their enemies. iwould have done the samething, but if i were the American i would be a little more enthusiastic of those German officers, such as the noble Count von Stauffenburg and other Germany anit-nazi resistance, that were trying to get rid of Hitler. But NO, allies needed the face of Hitler as the major vilian of the Axis powers until the end of the War, even though it would means millions of
     
  17. theN00_Jedi

    theN00_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    You understand, being american, I remember, oh, a few years ago, back when FOX was still considered a frigne network with little more than tabloid status, and nationalities didn't used to be insults, but you just called him a little too french so I'm guesing you don't

    If I had to guess, I'd say locking this would be a good idea
     
  18. TCG

    TCG Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    ^^
    first of all, you put quotes around what i supposedly wrote, but you misquoted me, and my post is right there!

    second, i DO remember when fox was a fringe network, but nationalities have always been used to either compliment or criticize someone. they can be used either way, and they've been used that way for a long, long time. just to let you know.
     
  19. theN00_Jedi

    theN00_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    That's true, but congress never used take time out of their busy days to deliberate the names of belgian potatoe dishes, so it has become a bit more mainstream, either way, I doesn't look like this thread has progressed much since the first post mentioning that the world trade center doesn't have turbo lasers
     
  20. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
    i understand that being canadian, you've probably had a lot of french influence over the last 12 years, and you dont understand this, but there are people who WILL do this. japan during the war came very close. if not for the a-bombs, an invasion may have been necessary. londoners are some of the toughest mf-ers in the world. bombing and occupation are different, bombing is worse! they had their city bombed every day and night for years, and they still went to work each day, sent their kids to school, etc., etc.

    French influence, lol, I am Persian and though i live in Canada my way of thiking is my own. BTW East and West are different people. Please dont compare the suppose toughness of the Anglo-saxon to the resolve of the Japanese. though many armies claim that they will fight to the death the Japanese are the only ones that came close to that claim and i dont care if the Londerners are tough ****, their government would have agree with an armistice. like i said iam from Iran, and i can tell you that in 8-year-war that we fought against Iraq (brought to you by USA, France, USSR), kids younger than your age pickup arms and fought for they beilived in (wether it was misguided or not). thats resolve!!!



    the sanctions are a huge can of worms that i dont wanna go in depth into now, and you seemingly dont want to either. let me just put it this way, saddam hussein could have taken some of the money from selling 1 of his 500 palaces and given it to the poor people if he wanted to. and its not like he didnt continue selling oil anyway. if you are saying that the UN is meaningless, then we can agree on that.

    I agree with you on this assessment. Also USA could have not supported that bastard in the 80s as a tool against Iran just to wack him 1991, but than again making sure that he stays in power (thats means backstabbing the kurds!!!) so there will no vaccum of power throughout 1990s until the time was rip to comeup with what????? ........... "Iraq is building a new Death Star!!! (year 2003) the entire civilisation was standing on the edge of the knife". i respct the UN and i wish it works. but the only nation that can make UN work properly is the USA by being a good older brother to other nation as an example by showing the way, than bullying everone and/or coming up with comments such asfreedom fries, or its casual backstabbing on the world stage politics

    well the part that i said murders are ***** is actually copy-pasted from my FIRST and SECOND post on this thread, WHICH U DID NOT READ, the thing i said about "worth living for" was a comment to a specific person that came AFTER. not other way around
     
  21. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
    i think the only person who knows what he is talking about is Darth Poppy, he has good knowledge


    a problem about being to American, is that everthing is in Black and White. its either black or white. you are either with us or with them. its either my way or the highway.


    if a person makes a comment about the roots of modern terrorism, he is called a terrorist lover

    if a person makes a bad comment against isreal, he is immedialty called a Neo-nazi and/or anti-semetism



     
  22. theN00_Jedi

    theN00_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    I've noticed that, which is a little odd since I am jewish, so I'm not quite sure how I could be an antisemite[face_laugh]
     
  23. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
  24. Republic_Trooper

    Republic_Trooper Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    TCG, I don't know who you are, but I like your style.=D=
     
  25. TCG

    TCG Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2005
    since you are making generalized comments about Americans, i feel free to make generalized comments about canadians. canadians think that all their problems are created by america. the US is the perfect scapegoat. there always has to be something or someone to blame all their problems on.

    canadians ask:
    why is the economy bad? because of America!

    why was there no hockey last year? because of America!

    why is it so cold up here? because of America!
     
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