ALMOST...But Just Not Good Enough...AND DONT GET MAD AT ME!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by JermaineRogers-com, May 25, 2002.

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  1. JermaineRogers-com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 1
    PLEASE dont get me wrong. Im a huge SW devotee...have been since I was 6 years old back in 77. ANd I think AOTC was amazing...especially compared to TPM.

    But, I just saw Lord Of The Rings again today...and, well...AOTC just didnt come close.
    I feel kinda dirty for even saying it...but it's true. My friend who went with me said, 'Well, the STar Wars saga is more about fun and excitement and not meant to be as 'heavy' as LOTR.' I disagree. FOr those that think the SW saga is just a 'popcorn' kinda film...go back and watch ESB. ..especially the scenes on Dagobah. Watch the scenes between Luke and Vader in ROTJ.
    And even if this were true (that its just a 'fun' film, no more, no less) then Lucas upped the ante with TPM...with talk of Trade Federations...and midoclorines...There's definitely some DEPTH here.
    I just wonder WHY AOTC couldnt match LOTR in intensity? Is it bad directing by Lucas? Or does he not have the suffiocient actors to do the job? Is it a question of talent?
    I look at some of the scenes in LOTR, and the forboding feelings you get in the film...like in the Mines of Moria...or the beautifuly filmed scenes combined with music...
    For instance, the love scenes in AOTC...all of them combined- dont come close to the 3 minutes of Arwen and Aragorn at night on the bridge in Rivendell.
    See what Im getting at?
    Please dont get me wrong, here. I am NOT an AOTC basher. I WANTED AOTC to be the equal in quality to LOTR. It hurts me more than anyone else to realize that AOTC compared to LOTR is just like comparing some of the cheap Star Wars knock-offs in the 80's to a film like EMPIRE.
    AOTC just seems like candy compared to LOTR...and it SHOULDNT be.
    What's wrong?????
  2. JermaineRogers-com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 1
    All that said, AOTC was AMAZING. Really. Just not on that 'other' level...like I wanted...like I EXPECTED.
  3. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    // gets mad at JR-com


    :p






    Rick McCallum loves you!
  4. BrendanWOR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 2
    TRAITOR! You don't deserve to be at a Star Wars message board! :D
  5. QuiGonJinn84 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 1999
    star 2
    Lord of the Rings is different. It's like saying 'I wish this great apple I just ate tasted just like the great orange I had last night.'

    LotR is more of a dark tale, more epic. Star Wars is more loose but certainly as intimate. I love the characters in LotR, but I love the characters in AotC as well. But tell me this - does any scene in the other Star Wars movies ever feel like say the Mines of Moria scenes? The end battle of AotC feels just like the end battle of any Star Wars movie. The action sequences are like Star Wars movies.

    The question isnt does it live up to LotR the question is does it love up to Star Wars. I'd say yes.

    Talking about themes- I'd argue that AotC deals with the most complex and interesting themes of any of the SW movies - look at the development of Anakin's character. It's very well done, theme wise.
  6. Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    star 2
    I think one reason you feel this way, is because the acting was definately better in LOTR. Don't get me wrong...I don't think the acting sucked in AOTC like some people and I did love the movie...it's just the acting wasn't as good as in LOTR.
  7. JermaineRogers-com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 1
    I understand your point...but there is so much more that couldve been done in AOTC.
    The forshadowing in LOTR is amazingly done with great camerawork, excellent soundtrack music and GOOD, FLUID ACTING.
    For instance, the scene where Gandalf is explaining to Frodo how the ring 'wants to be found'. The fluid acting...the slow panning camera work...
    If ANY film could make use of forshadowing..SHOULD make use of it...its AOTC. You have a 'Greek Tragedy' of the highest order about to take place, here...and the film sorta just 'skips along'.
    The actors do a better job than in TPM...but people, they sound like theyre reading their lines at many points...with the exception of Christopher Lee and, strangely enough, Yoda.
    These 2 were the best 'actors' in the film: I think Frank Oz should get some sort of recognition for pulling that off.
  8. Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    star 2
    I thought Hayden did a great job too. Some of the looks he gave after the tusken slaughter scene gave me the creeps. Natalie did the best job she could with the lines she was given, but the lack of contractions really hurt a lot of the scenes between Padme/Anakin.
  9. Silverhill Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    You also have to look at what the respective stories are.

    Part of what makes LOTR so great is the sweeping good vs. evil theme -- the very thing that made the OT so great.

    AOTC is a prequel, before we have the big, bad evil of Vader and Palpatine. In that sense, it would be easier to compare it to the Hobbit. While Vader/Emperor can compare to Sauron, Dooku and the various other evil forces in AOTC can't.
  10. jediguy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2000
    star 5
    I agree with you. However, I don't think that makes AOTC a *bad* movie in ANY way, it's just that SW isn't comparable with anything else, IMO.

    As a movie, LOTR was much better, but in their own right, and for what they were trying to acheive, they were both fantastic.
  11. JermaineRogers-com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 1
    The way I see it, there are insidious, almost hidden forces that become increasingly more 'in your face' during LOTR...to try and get the ring back.
    I think you have a tremendous oppurtunity in AOTC to have that same overwhelming, unseen threat thing there...and growing. Yoda mentions that the 'shroud of the dark side has fallen'. Yea, we guess we believe that...cause we can see the clone army, and Dooku talking with Sidious...as well as the fact we KNOW whats going to happen, ultimately. But so much more couldve been done to support Yodas statements...so much we couldve seen...Like a net growing tighter around a situation from which no one will escape.
    You FEEL that in LOTR. Things are happening...we SEE them...and we dont need cryptic 'one-liners' to let us know...it's happening on screen. The actors are full of emotion.
    If I had to sum it up in very clear quick terms...LOTR is 'classy'...and AOTC..Star Wars PERIOD, SHOULD be. ESB was. AOTC seemed to be trying...panting its way through until the end.
  12. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    LotR was boring and Gandalf break dancing was lame. Frodo and Sam were too close for comfort. The characterization of all the characters save the Hobbits and Gandalf was uninspired. If not for the books we wouldn't have Gimili because he is so unnecessary in the film. It was over dramatic with Frodo nearly dying every five minutes but after the first time you got over it. There was no reason for Pippin or Merry to be with the Fellowship because they can't fight and they are only liabilities. They should've left them with the elves. I mean why bring them? Who gives a crap if they're friends. It's like bringing your little sister with you to a fight when you have an opportunity to leave her at home. The whole thing with Galadriel made no sense why did she go photographic negative with a spooky voice?

    Clones was way better.
  13. Darth-Zeppelin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 1
    Sorry, but to me, LOTR was super boring. I was not able to get into it. Loved the books as a kid but, when my friend made me go see it with him, I had to make pee trips to wake myself up. AND, just like the book, there's no ending. I went-WTF, I'll be darned if I go to see Towers and Hobbit. But ATOC and the soon Ep3, I'm there!
  14. suineme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2000
    star 2
    Everyone has their opinions, nothing wrong with that. All of you LOTR fans out there- I am sorry to say it, but I could barely sit through the movie. I thought it was long, drawn out, and kind of boring. I only saw it once though, maybe it gets better with other viewings. I thought about that as I left the theater, but then i thought about the prospect of sitting there another 3 hours. Sorry :)
  15. Darth-Zeppelin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 1
  16. os2Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 1999
    star 3
    I'm a fan of the books.. and like most novel->movie adaptations, the books are better. I did enjoy the movie though and I will get the dvd.
  17. POTAStar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2001
    star 2
    I thought LOTR was just plain aweful. I will never watch it again. I tried to a second time and almost pulled a gun on my TV.
    LOTR doesn't compare to AOTC's brilliance.
  18. Razorback Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 5
    I actually love LOTR and think it is a better movie than AOTC. However, I love AOTC too... I didn't try to compare them.

    And to call AOTC just eye candy is just an insult to that which some of us love. I thought AOTC was far more then eye candy... it was so much more.

    RB
  19. Darth-Zeppelin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 1
    Yeah, for methe going's on in ATOC actually had me glued. I was scared to hell as to what might be coming next. I witnessed a utopia become hell and was drawn into it. To me, I saw the cliffhanger in the flick...what the heck can happen next...oh, yeah...it gets worse!
  20. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    LOTR did have to conform to an existing book though, and they actually did a pretty good job in adapting it. Upon reading the novel, I kept wondering "How are they going to film this?", but they replicate it very well in the film. LOTR could've easily been a gargantuan mess of a film but it's solidly made.

    Unfortunately, like AOTC, LOTR had to cut off many important scenes. Doh! I wish studios could leave the scenes alone, but since Hollywood is a busniness after all, they are thinking about profits and cutting the screentime to get in more viewers. Sad but true. :(

  21. suineme Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2000
    star 2
    As for the acting- I agree its better, but only because the source material that it is drawn from is a classic. People have been reading and even studying the LOTR books for decades now. I would bet that Elijah Wood, Ian McKellen, and the rest are INTIMATELY familiar with the books, the characters, and their motivations.

    On the other hand, Lucas is so paranoid about security, the actors really arent given the opportunity to do any more than read their lines. They get the script in pieces, and only the scenes that are relevant to them.

    And I agree that its apples and oranges. Just because I thought it was boring doesnt mean that I dont recognize the achievement. Its well acted, wonderfully written (obviously)- its just not my "type" of movie. I'm not into fantasy stuff. I think comparing the two is futile.
  22. JermaineRogers-com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 1
    See, Ive seen AOTC 3 times...and I dont think I can see it again for like...months. Because it drags at so many points.
    The first 30 minutes of the film are really slow...the dialogue is the flattest ever written...I dont know if its the writing or the delivery...but the conversations between Anakin and Ben went from Amazing to really hollow...back and forth, back and forth.
    The 'chase' scene into the bar was so 'scripted'. There was no 'wild' element to it...the soundtrack didnt even sound like a 'city'.
    The relationship between Ben and Anakin seemed 'awkward' to say the least...Maybe GL meant it this way? I dont know.
    Padme and ANakin's scenes alternated between teen romance and bad, BAD night-club one liners.
    The last 45 minutes, of course, were good...but I think if you really examine WHY the last 45 minutes were so good, youll see its because there was less scripted dialogue...just action.
    I expect more from my saga. I expect more from the saga that moved me as a kid...that hit me, straight up, on almost Biblical levels of scope. AOTC was like a Sat. morning serial...a bad one.
    It was good...against TPM. Im amazed that people are saying it was better than ESB.
    Thats insanity.
  23. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Man, I just thought AOTC was better than LOTR on every level. The effects in LOTR were amaturish in comparison. The story; I haven't read the book ina long time but it was a chase scene. AOTC had so much more. I even thought the acting was better. Elijia Wood crying for 3 hours just didn't compare to Anakin. And I'll take stiff, sometimes awkward dialogue over the flowery olde english anyday. But to each their own.
  24. Razorback Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 5
    Hey look... more AOTC bashing from May02's... the wonder of it all. ;)

    RB
  25. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I loved AOTC, just see my sig. I haven't seen LOTR yet, but I tried reading the books and I fell asleep.
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