ALMOST...But Just Not Good Enough...AND DONT GET MAD AT ME!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by JermaineRogers-com, May 25, 2002.

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  1. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    "---And I'll take Lucas' directing over Jackson's anyday.---

    And what directing did George do in AOTC? Natalie sleepwalks through some scenes, people laugh at Anakin's nightmare, there's sketchy editing, and some moments produce unintended laughter.

    Give Jackson some credit, he directed Ian McKellan to an Oscar-nominated performance and earned a nomination himself. No one said the acting in LOTR was "flat" or "cheesy" because Jackson paid close attention to the performances, just as much as the effects. Lucas does it the other way around.

    If someone said GL was nominated for a directing Oscar for AOTC, I would crack up. No WAY does it deserve an Oscar. That would be like giving the SuperBowl ring to an average team."


    Actually, AOTC has some of the best directing I've seen. The camerawork was awesome. And Natalie sleptwalked through scenes? I don't remember that. And Peter Jackson did not lead Ian McKellen to an Oscar- he won that himself. And did you really expect AOTC to have -awesome- dialogue and -award winning performances?

    No. And if you did, I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. We all know that SW isn't about that. Should Lucas pay more attention to the dialogue and acting? I don't think so. The only part in AOTC that "sucked" was the dream sequence. Other than that, I didn't have any problems what-so-ever.

    Complaining about bad dialogue and acting in a Star Wars film is just about as stupid as complaining that sugar isn't sugary enough.

    I'm not trying to get on your bad side, JW, I'm just giving opinions here. And not ONCE did I put down Jackson. No way. He's awesome, and LOTR stunned me. I just don't think any director would be able to handle a Star Wars film.
  2. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Yes, the camera work in AOTC is just stunning. Definately some of the best work Lucas has done.

    And yes, better than Jackson with LOTR








    ST
  3. Beannaeb Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 3
    I find it interesting that people are comparing the first part of a three part saga with the second part of a three part saga. Yeah, FOTR is boring at parts because its the introduction, and its also the most spread out of the books. It starts many years before it ends, and a lot of traveling and time passes with very little happening (as they leave the Shire, from Rivendell to Moria...). TPM had its boring moments too, boring in the sense that it wasn't action packed, but expository. It introduced the trilogy, laid the base for what was to be built in Episodes II and III, and Fellowship does the same thing.

    For those of you who thought FOTR was 'boring,' I'd suggest you return to see the Two Towers, for out of the 3 parts, it is the most centralized and occurs in the shortest amount of time. While I am a huge Star Wars fan, even the most zealous of us should recognize Tolkien's influences on Lucas...
  4. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Funny how the Star Wars people are stating things as their opinions but the LotR people state there opinions as fact. I know the media is behind LotR and all but it's still just your opinion. I've heard people say "well everyone knows that Star Wars sucks now"...and I just say "oh really?"
  5. DellowFelegate Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 1
    I walked out of AOTC with a complete sense of satisfaction. As I reflect on why, I realize it's because I see the prequels as Anakin's descent into darkness, mirrored by the galaxy's descent. Going in the door, I had two expectations: I wanted to see Vader begin to emerge from Anakin and I wanted to see Sidious begin plunging the galaxy into darkness, now that he's made himself Supreme Chancellor.

    I felt that both expectations were fulfilled. There were times when I didn't like Hayden's performance. I had to avert my eyes from the nightmare scene (No...No...No...) and from parts of the fireside chat. But I did like Hayden in the 'Search for Mom' part. I liked the look in his eyes as he looks up from his dead mother. I also liked his confession to Padme. I felt I could see Vader emerging naturally from Anakin's obsessiveness combined with tragedy. I could see why Anakin wants more power, and why he will be seduced by the quicker, easier path.

    I also liked watching Sidious' manipulation of everyone so that they give him absolute power willingly. That noone realizes they are helpung advance the cause of Evil does not diminish them; it just elevates Sidious' status as antagonist. Seeing that made me reflect on what evil is and how Lucas sees it.

    Is AOTC (or any film) the best film ever? I never ask that question. That's because the strongest emotion ever invoked in me is facsination, the desire to learn more about and reflect on whtat I have seen. In that regard, both FOTR and AOTC were successful from where I sit. Your mileage may vary.
  6. Darth Blasphemous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 4
    I love both SW and LOTR. Heck, I even love Spider-Man, Superman, and all of the escapist entertainment!
    I registered with this place back when TPM was released, so I have been around for a while, just not as much in the past few years as I was at first.
    That said, let me say that I am really put off by the intolerance of the SW fans around here towards those who like LOTR better than SW. Think about it for a minute, if they weren't also SW fans would they even come here at all? The man who started this thread loves SW, as he stated many times before in other posts. What did he do wrong? He liked FOTR more than AOTC. He just wanted to voice his opinion on that, not to mention the gaping problems with AOTC. What does he get? Flamed by SW gushers.
    Let me come out and say that I was not disappointed in AOTC. If nothing it proves GL has an eye for action to rival John Woo. Problem is, it simply lacks the zest and heart of the OT. ANH had rather bad acting, as did ROTJ at points. However, they were all better than a shred of dialogue between Anakin and Padme in AOTC. But to say Natalie and Hayden have better chemistry than Maguire and Dunst is not only showing SW favoritism, it's just plain ignorant!
    When I first joined this place I thought it was nice place to discuss SW in a carefree manner. When I first started, it was, but now this place seems to have been overrun by the gushers and fanboys who forbid anything be said about SW other than praise. SW is a good serial kind of film, but little more in terms of the PT. Why some people can't accept that fact is beyond me.
    LOTR is based upon a classic work by a great author, and I can say that FOTR really speaks to me on an adult level the way SW:ANH did for many years prior. Most of the faults you anti-LOTR people seem to have with the story is material that was loyal to the source, which many of you seem to lack the patience to digest in print form anyway. I honestly feel sorry for your missing out on such a great work.
    Let me remind you that GL was greatly influenced by LOTR and Tolkien. SW is meant to be something done to honor it in a traditional sense. The two films being able to co-exist without one trying to outdo the other is the ultimate goal. Please, keep open minds about this stuff, and do not be blinded by your fanboy ways.
  7. Darth Blasphemous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 4
    Let also say that there are many people in this world who laugh at out debates and deem them pointless banter among geeks and nerds. These are the people who are yuppie types and couldn't care less about any of the stuff we hod dear.
    Furthermore, in their eyes, we are all part of one group. There's no distinciton between SW, LOTR, Star Trek, Harry Potter, and any other genre entertainment. We all fall in the same group. Please, let's not fight amongst ourselves and fight the real enemies instead!
  8. ultima-25 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    They're all good movies that are a lot of fun. Just my own recommendation, if you ever get the chance, see the movie Brotherhood of the Wolf. With all these huge films that make boatloads of money, its easy to forget about little movies that absolutely kick ass
  9. NORTHSTAR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 1
    But Just Not Good Enough...

    If AOTC is better than TPM, it wasn't by much.

    The Special effects were nice, but that only does does much to help the story.
  10. Darth_Terrell Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 2
    "LotR is more of a dark tale, more epic."

    I disagree. AOTC is as easily as epic, maybe even moreso, than LOTR. I liked LOTR, but I loved AOTC. As for the original Star Wars trilogy, i feel that they are far superior to Fellowship of the Ring, in addition to being far more fun.

    Again, I liked FOTR, but it was too long, and too monotonous for me to genuinely love it. I mean basically, the group walks a little, then they fight a little, then they walk some more, then they fight some more. After this went on for 2 hours, I was getting weary. Not only that, there was hardly no character development, and the film did nothing to make me care about the characters or their journey.

    All in all, I liked FOTR. I consider it a good fantasy movie. But this movie was not the masterpiece many believe it to be, at least in my opinion.

    But I will say this, LOTR tries to take itself very seriously. Star Wars is more willing to not take itself so seriously. Sometime, the film will poke a bit of fun at itself.

    While the LOTR books are classics, and will be around a long time, the movie will never reach the success, the popularity, or the impact that Star Wars is and was. Just my opinion.

    However you fell, I'm glad you liked the movie. I wouldn't get mad at you for honestly pointing out that you like LOTR a bit more. YOu know, there are people who can't stand Star Wars. Same with any popular movie.
  11. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Okay, here's my scores for FOTR and AOTC in various categories:

    SCRIPT
    FOTR - 9. The dialogue is better than Lucas's overall, and the story more linear. But Jackson had the benefit of working from a classic novel. Personally I think he should have cut more from the book. The Galadriel scenes really ruin the pace of the film, IMO.
    AOTC - 8. Some of the dialogue, particularly in the romantic scenes, was poor, but there were also a lot of great lines too. The main plot possibly wasn't as strong, but the various subplots gave AOTC more depth, I think.

    ACTING
    FOTR - 9. Nearly everyone did a great job, although Hugo Weaving was a bit too much like "Agent Smith" as Elrond. I also found Elijah Wood somewhat . . . dull as Frodo.
    AOTC - 8. A real mixed bag. Natalie and Hayden have some great scenes and some really bad ones. Ewan, Christopher Lee and Yoda are great throughout.

    DIRECTING
    FOTR - 9. Jackson did a great job in every department, though I did think he tried to make it too much like his early splatter films in some parts, and the swooping cameras were a little overdone.
    AOTC - 8. Lucas's only flaw is not really letting the actors breathe (I hear he only ever does a few takes of dialogue scenes). But he directs the action incredibly well, and I think the camerawork was much more imaginative than in TPM.

    SPECIAL EFFECTS
    FOTR - 9. Some subpar effects (Legolas leaping on the troll, Galadriel's weird face) but most of them were really impressive.
    AOTC - 10. Not perfect (the CGI people were just as fake as the ones in FOTR) but the sheer scale and beauty of the effects cannot be beat.

    MUSIC
    FOTR - 8. No really memorable themes, but the music suits the film well.
    AOTC - 8. Some great music in there (Across the Stars) but Lucas screwed up the editing.

    ENTERTAINMENT
    FOTR - 9. The action scenes are incredible and the plot held my interest most of the way through. But some of the scenes in the elven villages had me looking at my watch. I don't think it needed to be a three hour film.
    AOTC - 20/10. Nuff said :)
  12. jediguy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2000
    star 5
  13. Jango_Fett_fan87 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    I Agree with the other poster YOU ARE A TRAITOR to the Star Wars Universe! how could a 3+ hour quest with no end compare to an action packed movie like AOTC!
  14. Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    star 2
    The acting was better. I've said it before on this thread...as stand alone movies FOTR is better than AOTC, but as a whole I like Star Wars better.

    P.S. I loved AOTC, but FOTR is still a better movie.
  15. Luminous_Being Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    Athough I thought AOTC was better. I still liked LOTR. No reason why I couldn't have room in my life for both.
  16. Beannaeb Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 3
    I get this feeling that those who were "bored" during FOTR are the ones who never read the books. Every scene in FOTR was necessary - and in fact some people were disappointed some omissions (in fact, there is 30-40 minutes of footage that will be on the SE DVD coming out in November, furthering the characterization of Gimli).

    But again, I find it difficult to really compare the opening of a saga to the middle of a saga, when clearly the middle will deal with the beginning of the main events of the saga, while the beginning is an introduction to characters, and to situations that will be furthered in the subsequent films. TPM did this and people claimed it was boring and unnecessary - it didn't deal with the main events of this trilogy (namely, Anakin's descent to the dark side, the Clone Wars and Palpatine's ascent to power) like Episodes II and III have and will, just as Fellowship didn't deal with the main events of LOTR (Mainly, the war of the ring, Rohan vs Isengard, Gondor vs Mordor, and Sam and Frodo's trek into Mordor with the ring) nearly as completely as the Two Towers and Return of the King do.
  17. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    Typical LotR dialogue:

    Frodo: O Sam, I'm so very afraid. I wish Bilbo were here. What a terrible burden has been placed before us. I'm so glad you're here.

    Sam: Aye, that's roight, Marster Frodo, don't you worry yerself, old Sam'll see yer safe back ter the Shoire, and old Masser Gamgee'll be plantin' them potatoes out front of Bag End.'

    Frodo: I'm so very afraid, Sam...

    (Repeat ad infinitum)

    You want two more movies of THIS?!!??



  18. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    LOL !!!

    Oh, c'mon, it's not that bad.

    As for the guy that said the people who didn't like the movie didn't read the books, so what ?!?! Since when is it a requirement to read a book before watching a movie ?

    BTW, I liked LOTR, although I felt it was a bit long and the ending was a bit too unsatisfying. Will watch the next 2 though !
  19. POTAStar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2001
    star 2
    It was sorta like a 3 hour trailer for the next film.

  20. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I get this feeling that those who were "bored" during FOTR are the ones who never read the books

    That's not our fault that the movie couldn't be exciting unless you read the book.
  21. Beannaeb Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 3
    "As for the guy that said the people who didn't like the movie didn't read the books, so what ?!?! Since when is it a requirement to read a book before watching a movie ?"

    It's not, and when did I say it was? Plus, I never said what you claim that I have said - I said those who seem to find it boring are also the ones claiming to not have read the books.

    "BTW, I liked LOTR, although I felt it was a bit long and the ending was a bit too unsatisfying. Will watch the next 2 though !"

    The ending was unsatisfying? Maybe something you don't understand about these books is that they pick up right where the last leaves off. In other words, they not like Star Wars which seems to have pulses of interest in its galaxy. In ANH, there was a period of perhaps a few weeks that was of interest to the audience, then a break of 3 years that could be summed up in a short paragraph at the beginning of ESB, ESB had interesting events occur over a few months, then a year passes with nothing really significant happening, then the events of ROTJ which take place over, what, a few weeks maybe? It's different than LOTR - the events of Part II pick up directly after the denouement of Part I, so why is the ending not satisfying enough? It shows Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas heading west after laying Boromir to rest in search of the kidnapped Pippen and Merry, while Frodo and Sam head east into Mordor. What were you expecting, a lightsaber duel between Gandalf and Sauron?

    The thing is, while I love Star Wars, I also have a soft spot for LOTR, and I have to say that much of the criticism I read by the most devoted of Star Wars zealots is a bit lacking in content and originality. It says more to me that, "SW RULZ LOTR SUX" than anything of real critical integrity.


    EDIT - "That's not our fault that the movie couldn't be exciting unless you read the book."

    Perhaps it was more a commentary about the descent of the average human's mental focus into oblivion over the past few decades.
  22. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    TREEBEARD SUCKS, NUTE GUNRAY RULEZ!!!!
  23. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Perhaps it was more a commentary about the descent of the average human's mental focus into oblivion over the past few decades.

    All hail Beannaeb! The all knowing, all powerful intelligent one! He who rides his high horse and brings wisdom to us all!
  24. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    just wonder WHY AOTC couldnt match LOTR in intensity?

    That's funny. I'm wondering how Rings director Peter Jackson is going to be able to create a film half as good as Attack of the Clones.

    The problem with these arguments is that it is usually convieniently assumed that Lucas has really botched up the prequel trilogy while Jackson created a flawless work of art in Fellowship, but that's not necessarily the case. In fact, I'd say that Fellowship had at least as many cinematic "blunders" as Menace or Clones.

    For example, my biggest complaint with Fellowship is that Jackson turned Tolkien's rich narrative into a cheap action film where he raced through necessary character and plot developement in order to get to his next showcase action scene. As a result, the film felt hollow and the characters felt empty. That's not to say that it was a bad film as I enjoyed it, but it certainly wasn't nearly as good as it could have been, especially since the hardwork, that of creating a deep story in a richly detailed universe, had already been done for Jackson.

    Personally, after seeing Attack of the Clones, I say that Peter Jackson certainly has his work cut out for him!
  25. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    > Perhaps it was more a commentary about the descent of the average human's mental focus into oblivion over the past few decades.

    No, perhaps they just didn't like the movie. I don't care how big into LOTR or Star Wars, but you have to accept that some people won't like your or my movies.

    As for the ending, I didn't like it. You don't need to explain to me how the story continues and all, like I'm some 3rd grader. I understand that very well. I just didn't like the abrupt ending, nor did I care much for the "splitting up" of the party at the end. That's all.
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