PT Always 2, no more no less..

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by WhiskeyGold, Feb 13, 2012.

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  1. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    Yoda says about the Sith that their is always 2, never more or less. But that it's true. When Darth Maul dies that made Sidoius (sp) the only sith.
    Sidoius has to find a new Sith so there is a moment and I guess months or more when there is just one.
  2. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    How do you know Sidious didn't have Dooku ready to be converted after the Battle of Naboo? [face_thinking]
  3. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    Maybe so. After dooku was killed he didn't turn Anakin for a few days or weeks. So there was only one the master
  4. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Obviously. But that doesn't make Yoda's statement wrong.
  5. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    The ForceCast Roundtable on the Darth Plaguieis novel raises an interesting point about the rule of two being, essentially, out dated by the time we here Yoda (who along with the rest of the Jedi believe the sith have been gone for a thousand words) bring it up at The end of Episode one. I know that this is the Prequel film forum, but the Clone Wars and things developing in the EU now seem to point in a similar direction.

    Sith have been plotting in secret for a thousand years, and keeping their numbers low was a way of maintaining their secrecy as well as controlling and developing their 'Revenge' a generation at a time... from master to apprentice.

    At any rate the rule itself appears to be a construct of the sith. It doesn't mean that they're can only ever be two people using the darkside, under the name of sith, at the same time. I'd call it a prefered method of operating....a guideline (like the Pirate code, hehe) and not a set in stone rule. After all.... its a big galaxy.
  6. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Yeah, I think that would sorta make sense. You always want to have a master and an apprentice in case one of them gets killed. That way, the knowledge of the Sith won't be lost forever, I suppose.

    And yes, if you go to stuff that doesn't happen in the movies, you also have darkside users like Asajj, etc. So potentially there can be a few of them, I guess, but they'll always be working in pairs.
  7. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    My interpertation is that the whole "only two there are" thing is about controlling chaos. If you have competition for the position of biggest evil egomaniac in the galaxy the Sith are too busy fighting each other to achieve the goal of creating an orderly and subdued empire that isn't constantly at war (Or what Palpatine pretty much built minus the small rebel alliance). When you have just two the competition is limited, you pass on your goals and your knowledge to your apprentice, and you can do it all in secret (until the time comes.)

    What is the saying? "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

    This is essentially what the sith did.
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yoda says nothing to indicate that he believes the Sith have been gone for a thousand years. In fact, what he does say acts as a counterpoint to that concept. Ki-Adi and Mace are not the entirety of the rest of the Jedi. We don't know what the others believe.
  9. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    1. Yoda was sitting in the council room and is obviously its boss. If Mace can sit there and say it then its clearly an widely accepted fact.

    2. Later it is he who says "only two there are."

    3. Because Lucas can't show the opinions of 10 thousand jedi, I take the Council as a general representation of their opinions. If there are those who disagree, and it matters to the story... they would be show presenting that opinion on screen.
  10. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yoda sitting in a room does not mean he necessarily agrees with everybody in the room. What he actually says, in response to Mace, is that the dark side is hard to see.

    That's a separate issue, not relevant to the question of their very existence.

    We didn't hear from the whole Council. I don't take Ki-Adi-Mundi as being necessarily representative of everybody.
  11. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    Well, obviously there will be time when there is one Sith Lord, and times when there are three Sith Lords, and times when there are two. If the apprentice kills the master, he'll be alone for a while, or if the master is seeking to replace the apprentice, there may be three of them - momentarily.

    I think the line is just taken a little bit too literally. The gist of it is, "They operate in pairs. If there is just one, he'll find a student. If there are more than two, someone is going to die, sooner or later. They'll eventually balance out as a master and apprentice."
  12. OBI-GYN_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 3
    You missed the deleted scene that was cut after Darth Maul's death:

    Mace Windu: "but which one died? The master or the apprentice?"

    Yoda: "recruiting time is it for the Sith."

    Director: "Fade to black."

    [:D]
  13. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Yeah, I'm sure as soon as they heard of Maul's death, everyone who'd dabbled in the dark side throughout the galaxy sent out their resume's to Darth Sidious... ;)
  14. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    The Lost Tribe of & the 3 living DLoS from Bane's line, all thank you for your support.

    [face_mischief]








    :p
  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I always said it should be the Rule of Two Plus Or Minus One.
  16. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
  17. Nagai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2010
    star 3
    One time we had Plagueis +Palps+Maul.
  18. JEDI-RISING Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2005
    star 3
    well when one dies there's one less. What he means is there's always One Master, and never more than one Apprentice.



    then there's the Expanded Universe which has ignored the Rule ever since.
  19. TheRedBlade Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2007
    star 3
    To paraphrase James Luceno, the Sith don't play by any rules. Or, to bring in another film, "Think of them more as...guidelines."

    The EU has actually been pretty good about the Rule of Two during Bane's line. Palpatine played a bit faster and looser with it than anyone else, but...he's Palpatine.
  20. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    One of the apprentices isn't a Sith yet, then.

    One of the stupidest things of the more recent EU, in my opinion.
  21. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The EU hasn't ignored this rule. Some Sith Masters believe they can operate with more than one apprentice, but that is usually their downfall. Darth Bane instituted the Rule of Two because two apprentices would conspire with each other to combine their strengths to defeat their master, thus weakening the order as a whole.

    The Rule of Two isn't an actual rule, but a necessity for the survival of the Sith order. Those who try to ignore or subvert the rule risk destroying the order entirely.
  22. OBI-GYN_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 3
    I guess that makes this a Star Wars 'Catch-22'. [face_hypnotized]
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The Sith had in most cases operated in twos, save for a few times here and there when that was not the case. Yoda and Mace's conversation was about confirming that the individual who attacked Qui-gon and Obi-wan was indeed a Sith Lord, but that meant that there was still one more out there to deal with. Since only one Sith was seen and was confirmed to be the same individual, that meant that still had to be on their toes. "No More" means that they there is only ever two Sith Lords fighting and plotting together. "No Less" means that the Sith Lord will have to find someone else to convert to the dark side in order to maintain their balance.
  24. Glymphid_Warlord Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2008
    star 2
    Darth Maul didn't die...
  25. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    As far as the movies go, he died and was quickly forgotten. What happens in the animated series is not canon, AFAIK. ;)
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