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PT Always 2, no more no less..

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by WhiskeyGold, Feb 13, 2012.

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  1. WhiskeyGold

    WhiskeyGold Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 13, 2001
    Yoda says about the Sith that their is always 2, never more or less. But that it's true. When Darth Maul dies that made Sidoius (sp) the only sith.
    Sidoius has to find a new Sith so there is a moment and I guess months or more when there is just one.
     
  2. MandalorianDuchess

    MandalorianDuchess Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Feb 16, 2010
    How do you know Sidious didn't have Dooku ready to be converted after the Battle of Naboo? [face_thinking]
     
  3. WhiskeyGold

    WhiskeyGold Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 13, 2001
    Maybe so. After dooku was killed he didn't turn Anakin for a few days or weeks. So there was only one the master
     
  4. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Obviously. But that doesn't make Yoda's statement wrong.
     
  5. GeneralCeel

    GeneralCeel Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 4, 2005
    The ForceCast Roundtable on the Darth Plaguieis novel raises an interesting point about the rule of two being, essentially, out dated by the time we here Yoda (who along with the rest of the Jedi believe the sith have been gone for a thousand words) bring it up at The end of Episode one. I know that this is the Prequel film forum, but the Clone Wars and things developing in the EU now seem to point in a similar direction.

    Sith have been plotting in secret for a thousand years, and keeping their numbers low was a way of maintaining their secrecy as well as controlling and developing their 'Revenge' a generation at a time... from master to apprentice.

    At any rate the rule itself appears to be a construct of the sith. It doesn't mean that they're can only ever be two people using the darkside, under the name of sith, at the same time. I'd call it a prefered method of operating....a guideline (like the Pirate code, hehe) and not a set in stone rule. After all.... its a big galaxy.
     
  6. MandalorianDuchess

    MandalorianDuchess Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Feb 16, 2010
    Yeah, I think that would sorta make sense. You always want to have a master and an apprentice in case one of them gets killed. That way, the knowledge of the Sith won't be lost forever, I suppose.

    And yes, if you go to stuff that doesn't happen in the movies, you also have darkside users like Asajj, etc. So potentially there can be a few of them, I guess, but they'll always be working in pairs.
     
  7. GeneralCeel

    GeneralCeel Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 4, 2005
    My interpertation is that the whole "only two there are" thing is about controlling chaos. If you have competition for the position of biggest evil egomaniac in the galaxy the Sith are too busy fighting each other to achieve the goal of creating an orderly and subdued empire that isn't constantly at war (Or what Palpatine pretty much built minus the small rebel alliance). When you have just two the competition is limited, you pass on your goals and your knowledge to your apprentice, and you can do it all in secret (until the time comes.)

    What is the saying? "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

    This is essentially what the sith did.
     
  8. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Yoda says nothing to indicate that he believes the Sith have been gone for a thousand years. In fact, what he does say acts as a counterpoint to that concept. Ki-Adi and Mace are not the entirety of the rest of the Jedi. We don't know what the others believe.
     
  9. GeneralCeel

    GeneralCeel Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 4, 2005
    1. Yoda was sitting in the council room and is obviously its boss. If Mace can sit there and say it then its clearly an widely accepted fact.

    2. Later it is he who says "only two there are."

    3. Because Lucas can't show the opinions of 10 thousand jedi, I take the Council as a general representation of their opinions. If there are those who disagree, and it matters to the story... they would be show presenting that opinion on screen.
     
  10. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Yoda sitting in a room does not mean he necessarily agrees with everybody in the room. What he actually says, in response to Mace, is that the dark side is hard to see.

    That's a separate issue, not relevant to the question of their very existence.

    We didn't hear from the whole Council. I don't take Ki-Adi-Mundi as being necessarily representative of everybody.
     
  11. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 7, 2004
    Well, obviously there will be time when there is one Sith Lord, and times when there are three Sith Lords, and times when there are two. If the apprentice kills the master, he'll be alone for a while, or if the master is seeking to replace the apprentice, there may be three of them - momentarily.

    I think the line is just taken a little bit too literally. The gist of it is, "They operate in pairs. If there is just one, he'll find a student. If there are more than two, someone is going to die, sooner or later. They'll eventually balance out as a master and apprentice."
     
  12. OBI-GYN_Kenobi

    OBI-GYN_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jun 25, 2002
    You missed the deleted scene that was cut after Darth Maul's death:

    Mace Windu: "but which one died? The master or the apprentice?"

    Yoda: "recruiting time is it for the Sith."

    Director: "Fade to black."

    [:D]
     
  13. MandalorianDuchess

    MandalorianDuchess Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Feb 16, 2010
    Yeah, I'm sure as soon as they heard of Maul's death, everyone who'd dabbled in the dark side throughout the galaxy sent out their resume's to Darth Sidious... ;)
     
  14. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    The Lost Tribe of & the 3 living DLoS from Bane's line, all thank you for your support.

    [face_mischief]








    :p
     
  15. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    I always said it should be the Rule of Two Plus Or Minus One.
     
  16. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
  17. Nagai

    Nagai Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Nov 15, 2010
    One time we had Plagueis +Palps+Maul.
     
  18. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Force Ghost star 6

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    Apr 15, 2005
    well when one dies there's one less. What he means is there's always One Master, and never more than one Apprentice.



    then there's the Expanded Universe which has ignored the Rule ever since.
     
  19. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 17, 2007
    To paraphrase James Luceno, the Sith don't play by any rules. Or, to bring in another film, "Think of them more as...guidelines."

    The EU has actually been pretty good about the Rule of Two during Bane's line. Palpatine played a bit faster and looser with it than anyone else, but...he's Palpatine.
     
  20. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    One of the apprentices isn't a Sith yet, then.

    One of the stupidest things of the more recent EU, in my opinion.
     
  21. timmoishere

    timmoishere Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jun 2, 2007
    The EU hasn't ignored this rule. Some Sith Masters believe they can operate with more than one apprentice, but that is usually their downfall. Darth Bane instituted the Rule of Two because two apprentices would conspire with each other to combine their strengths to defeat their master, thus weakening the order as a whole.

    The Rule of Two isn't an actual rule, but a necessity for the survival of the Sith order. Those who try to ignore or subvert the rule risk destroying the order entirely.
     
  22. OBI-GYN_Kenobi

    OBI-GYN_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jun 25, 2002
    I guess that makes this a Star Wars 'Catch-22'. [face_hypnotized]
     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    The Sith had in most cases operated in twos, save for a few times here and there when that was not the case. Yoda and Mace's conversation was about confirming that the individual who attacked Qui-gon and Obi-wan was indeed a Sith Lord, but that meant that there was still one more out there to deal with. Since only one Sith was seen and was confirmed to be the same individual, that meant that still had to be on their toes. "No More" means that they there is only ever two Sith Lords fighting and plotting together. "No Less" means that the Sith Lord will have to find someone else to convert to the dark side in order to maintain their balance.
     
  24. Glymphid_Warlord

    Glymphid_Warlord Jedi Knight star 2

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    Oct 10, 2008
    Darth Maul didn't die...
     
  25. MandalorianDuchess

    MandalorianDuchess Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Feb 16, 2010
    As far as the movies go, he died and was quickly forgotten. What happens in the animated series is not canon, AFAIK. ;)
     
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