Am I supposed to feel SORRY for him?!!

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Widowlander, May 19, 2005.

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  1. Widowlander Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    Ok, after seeing the last of the star wars films, the last of the prequel trilogy and the last time we see Hayden Christianson OUTSIDE of the suit for the rest of the saga, I must say...HE GOT WHAT HE DESERVED. Anakin Skywalker was clearly a nut bag from the beginning. His sociopathic tendancies, to his quest for Godhood ultimately drove him to have complete and total disregard for the life of everyone else BUT the woman he loved?! Oh, wait...I forgot, he actually tried to kill HER too. So all this stuff he did in the hopes of making things better for her and their children ultimatly means nothing cause, well, psychopaths rarely stay focused on anything but their own dreams.

    Yes, the Jedi counsel is a threat to the Empire and his relationship and loyalty to Palpatine, but come on now....little kids hiding out in the cousel room scared for their lives?! I'm so sure they're a threat. I'm sorry, when you're taking out little kids, there IS NO redemption for you. I DON'T feel sorry for him, I'm glad he got chopped up into little pieces and fried. Where is the tragic story? Where is the downfall of someone we were supposed to love? All I've seen is a very creepy individual who seemed from day one to have absolutely no control over his emotions what so ever. Where is the years of training? Where are the countless hours of meditation and rigorous servitude to the greater balance of life? Guess ole' Anny musta missed those courses in Jedi School.

    Sorry, but I fail to see where GL got the notion that anyone with a stread of human conscious would feel sorry for this completely out of control murderer. And the Swan dive he sends Palpy on in the final film HARDLY makes up for the rampant carnage he caused in this one.
    Bad call GL. BAAD.
  2. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Your not supposed to feel sorry for him. You are supposed to UNDERSTAND what he did - But, ultimatly he was wrong.
  3. WLDB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2004
    star 4
    I felt bad for him at the beginning. Knowing he was going to loose everything. Then I saw that he was gullible and naive. I dont feel sorry for him now.
  4. Widowlander Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    I UNDERSTAND completely what he did. It was the body of my post. What I speak on is that GL seemed to miss the main point of ANY tragic story. That point is that the audience is actually SUPPOSED to care about the main character, thus making the fall all the more dramatic.

    GL has gone on and on about how you will feel sorry for him in the end, but ultimately...no...sorry GL...I DONT. And that really chaps my hide cause its a really HUGE reason why I'm not really a fan of this final installment.
  5. asdf13 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2005
    star 1
    You gotta read the book... It explains a lot in more detail...

    I felt sorry for him. He was a guy trying to save the women he loved. He thought he was saving the republic, while ever so slowly being consumed by the darkside.

    I felt bad for him.
  6. DarthDallas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2003
    dude have you ever been in love???.....have you ever lost the woman you loved?? This is a classic tragic love story. I felt horrible for him and now when I watch JEDI and see him throw the Emperor down the shaft I will stand up and cheer. Anakin is good again!!!!
  7. Widowlander Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    I understand that, and trying to save the woman that you love but ultimately being pawn in a plot that spans god knows how long is in itself a tragic plot. But come on dawg, slicing up little children to reach those ends? I'm sorry, but that's just monsterous. Where is even the shread of humanity that was there? It takes a really, REALLY warped individual to do something like that. Possessed by the dark side of the force? Maybe, I MIGHT even buy that logic after a couple of drinks. But its 4 in the morning, I'm sober and I've been given no reason based off the 2 1/2 hour movie that I saw that indicates Anny's fall from grace would require such an act.

    Maybe if i wasnt subject to witness 3 scenes of the mortality rate of little kids, I dunno. Tragedy is one thing, but you CAN cross the line where you stray from victim of circumstance to just plain vile. I think our friend Darth Vader falls into the latter category.
  8. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    It's a metaphor.

    He is killing the innocence within himself when he does that.

  9. BosskMaul Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 1
    I'm with you. Really nothing to feel sorry for. The guy's not a good person, it's plain and simple!

    You know who I feel sorry for?? Ki-Adi Mundi!
  10. Widowlander Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    And you ask "dude have you ever been in love?", and I say, yes, i'm in love with a beautiful and wonderful woman right now. And i would put anyone too the sword that would step bad to harm her. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna go around rampantly cutting people down, innocent people, innocent children, to protect her from some premonition that she's going to die during child birth. I dont particularly think she would approve of that, as Padme didn't...just before Anny proceded to force strangle her.......oh i feel REAL sorry for him NOW. Pft...he got chopped up...burned...and incased in a walking toaster oven...he got what he deserved.
  11. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    He's the hero of the Clone Wars, he IS a good person in his heart...he just lusts after things too blindly.

    And when you are a Jedi, that can be very dangerous.
  12. Widowlander Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    No, it's NOT a metaphor, he actually does it on screen.

    "Killing the innocence within himself" umm...no...He's killing kids.
  13. sithscotti418 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2005
    star 3
    I did not feel good after Obiwan won the duel, Did Anakin do horrible acts > Yes , and perhaps he had it coming, but it emotionally did not make me feel better to see him burned and decapitaed from the waist, It was so sad. I felt horrible for him up into the children incident, because it was all for Padme, and he screwed it up big time.


    I don't care what anyone says Hayden was incredible, and Im not a girl saying that. I also dug every Anakin/Padme scene. Call me sappy. The scene where they are looking out the window, and a tear drops from eyes is just so haunting. I'm tearing thinking about it.
  14. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    I have to agree a bit there.

    They should have built up the fact a bit more that Anakin destroying the Jedi temple was inevitable for him at that point. Palpatine says it but -- there should have been a more effective response from Anakin showing that if Anakin DIDN'T do what he did, including killing those kids, he could pretty much be expected to be executed by the Jedi at that point.

    In other words, it should have been put forward more strongly that Anakin was not betraying the Jedi because he wanted power, but because he was a COWARD and didn't want to face recrimination for what happened to Windu.

    What was also bad was the timing of how Anakin submitted to Palpatine. He kills Mace and says "well I guess I'll just follow you now"? No, they needed to put forward first and foremost that from Anakin's POV at that point, it made no difference anymore if he turned to the dark side or not. The killing of Mace put into a series of motions he couldn't undo and that he probably wishes even as he's doing all these things that he could go back and make the other decision. But it was split-second and Mace pushed the issue, and so here we are.

    There's a bit of that in there, but not enough, I think.
  15. snap-hiss Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 5
    burned and decapitaed from the waist

    capit, capt: Latin - head

    !snap
  16. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    The interesting aspect was, if you noticed carefully, all along he knew everything he was doing was wrong, hence crying several times, but "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."
    He was helpless. Hence the Vader" Nooooooo" at the end. He realized only then Sidious tricked him, and he caused the very thing he was trying to prevent. Sad sad sad tragic tragic tragic.
  17. Invictus_Sol Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2003
    star 4
    I have to agree a bit there.

    They should have built up the fact a bit more that Anakin destroying the Jedi temple was inevitable for him at that point. Palpatine says it but -- there should have been a more effective response from Anakin showing that if Anakin DIDN'T do what he did, including killing those kids, he could pretty much be expected to be executed by the Jedi at that point.

    In other words, it should have been put forward more strongly that Anakin was not betraying the Jedi because he wanted power, but because he was a COWARD and didn't want to face recrimination for what happened to Windu.

    What was also bad was the timing of how Anakin submitted to Palpatine. He kills Mace and says "well I guess I'll just follow you now"? No, they needed to put forward first and foremost that from Anakin's POV at that point, it made no difference anymore if he turned to the dark side or not. The killing of Mace put into a series of motions he couldn't undo and that he probably wishes even as he's doing all these things that he could go back and make the other decision. But it was split-second and Mace pushed the issue, and so here we are.

    There's a bit of that in there, but not enough, I think.


    Very well put.
  18. deadjedi_willbe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2003
    star 4
    all along he knew everything he was doing was wrong, hence crying several times,

    I noticed that too. He hated doing it, but it was for Padme.
  19. Widowlander Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    Don't missinterpret me Sithscotti, I'm not talking about Haydens performance in anyway, nor the sappy romance scenes or anything like that. Its just this film has turned my outlook of the character around completely. I know that that was the whole point of the prequel trilogy in itself, but I had hoped to have a better understanding of the tragedy that lead him to being that villian we all knew and loved. Now though, its changed my view of him for the worse. So when that climatic scene takes place in the tower of the Death Star II and Palpy goes plummeting to the reactors core, I'm not going to "stand up and cheer" like others have stated they would. I'm gonna kinda sit there and think "so...i guess alls forgiven now, you chop through children, jedi, friends, foes, help in the creation of an empereal machine that totes a planet exploding weapon, and damn near get your OWN kids vaporized in the process....good job buddy. Come home and I'll bake you a cake"
  20. neo-dragon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2004
    star 3
    I felt sorry for him right up until Windu died. Everything he did after that made me wish I could be in the movie and kick his ass myself.
  21. Dukhat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2004
    star 1
    Lucas did really badly on character development here. The overall arc was good but all the little details were there.

    Why did you care about Han and Leia? They were believable characters. Why did you like Han even if he was a scoundrel. Because he came back and did the right thing at the end of Episode IV and risked it all. There were all these little believable moments when you started caring about the characters in the OT.

    Anakin never, ever did that in the prequels which is disappointing. Lucas could've made it a point to show Anakin stop by and help a homeless kid or do something truly compassionate and caring, but he never does; he just seems like some big bratty showoff always wanting to use violence. Thats also what makes his romance with Padme so unbearably unbelievable. I saw AOTC three times in theaters and people always laughed when they heard Padme say "I've been dying ..." Their love story was so unbelievable because Anakin never showed any good traits nor did Padme.

    Lucas said himself he's a visual director; but people never loved the OT because of its special effects; they loved it because of the characters.
  22. Zonama_Mekot Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 4
    He's the hero of the Clone Wars, he IS a good person in his heart...he just lusts after things too blindly.

    And when you are a Jedi, that can be very dangerous.


    I agree with you on this. The reason the Jedi are not allowed to love is because of what such an attachment can do. It all stems from the Jedi holding too idealistic of a view of life and the force. That is the reason it is so dangerous for PT era Jedi to love and have attachments, but NJO Jedi can, and not suffer consequences anything like this. I believe that deals with the balance that needed to be brought to the force. Not only the elimination of the Sith, but of the Jedi of old. Anakin's specific connection through love, combined with the unbalanced views of the force held by PT Jedi, and lastly with his desire to be able to prevent death of the ones he loves, from the death of his mother. All of these combined cause him to be willing to do absolutely anything necessary to save Padme, right or wrong. It is for this reason that I am still able to see his story as tragic, and feel bad for him, even if he has fallen.
  23. JEDIFRIGHT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 1
    I have been mulling over his fall ever since seeing it unravel a few hours ago. My initial response was that I felt it was rushed and Anakin seemed more tragic than evil but then in the next scene he commits a crime so heinous and evil that he loses all possibility of redemption. This was hard to accept and some of the following scenes with the Order 66 were difficult for me to fully appreciate because I found myself dissapointed by Anakin's fall which really set the rest of the film in motion (and indeed the rest of the saga).

    But having mulled over it since seeing the entire film my thoughts have changed. I think one must conceptualize his fall/seduction within the framework of the entire saga - in particular his redeption in Episode VI. He is redeemed almost in the same way as he falls. It happens in a spontaneous moment and it occurs because of his love for his family. In fact one may argue that he turns evil with the sincere love of his wife (and by extention his yet unborn family) and he is redeemed with the sincere love for his son (and by extention newly discovered daughter). When I see the fall within that framework I am quite happy with the way Lucas developed the story and develops and validates a story arc.
  24. LLL Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2000
    star 4
    I'm sorry, when you're taking out little kids, there IS NO redemption for you. I DON'T feel sorry for him, I'm glad he got chopped up into little pieces and fried. Where is the tragic story? Where is the downfall of someone we were supposed to love?

    Once upon a time, Anakin WAS one of those little kids. No different.

    Only different in your mind.
  25. Widowlander Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    Nothing says sincere love like a good ole' force choke!!
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