Am I the Last of the D6 System GMs?

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by Tremaniac, Jun 9, 2002.

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  1. Jim Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 1
    I'm doing well, Ping. :) Drop me a line sometime and let me know how you're doing.

    The campaign you were part of ages ago is still going strong, even with a lot of player turnover. Krog's the team cook now. :)

    Back to topic...
  2. RiggsWolfe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 2
    Well, I've now run a short space combat using the revised d20 rules. It went fast, it went furious, it was fun. Yep, d20 now has my total stamp of approval. If you want my point by point breakdown here it is.

    Area d20 d6
    Character Creation Very Good Very good
    Character customization Great Good
    (alot of d6 characters ended up looking alot alike, I always wanted a merits and flaws type system, d20 has something like it in feats)
    Space combat Good VeryGood
    Jedi Great Poor
    (Jedi in d6 tended to be very weak to start then quickly got way out of control. In addition, d6 lightsaber battles were one shot kills, totally unlike the movies.)
    Source material Good Great
    (d6 of course has the advantage here, with so many awesome supplements, this may change when d20 has been out for awhile)

    a quick once over will see that in my view they are pretty much neck and neck, except Jedi where d20 beats d6 to a blood pulp. In most other cases they are either even, or one has a slightly higher rating than the other. If I were to rate them both on a 1-10 scale I'd say d20 rates an 8.5 or so and d6 a 7, maybe even a 6.5, losing alot of points for how poorly it handles Jedi.

    I loved d6, and own almost every sourcebook ever printed for it, but I feel d20 is superior overall. YMMV.
  3. El Kabong Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 1999
    star 3
    >>>d6 of course has the advantage here, with so many awesome supplements, this may change when d20 has been out for awhile<<<

    This is probably the D20's weakest area. The game has been out - what two years now? The flow of sourcebooks and other material has been non-existant. And some of the items (such as the New Jedi Order book) have been damn useless. I was looking for something other than a brief summation of the series thusfar - something along the lines of the Zhan trilogy sourcebook.

    Even worse - WotC has yet to carve out its own little corner of the universe. EVERY single book has been something from elsewhere in the Star Wars universe. Where is the Lord of the Expanse set, or Darkstrider? Gimme something that's not from a video game or comic book.
  4. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Merits and flaws can be easily adapted in d6 to make your game more personalized. I've mixed several ideas for M&Fs from sites online and my own hodge podge stuff. Some players like it, some don't. Of course, players who don't like it love it when I enforce those flaws like a bastardly Cyberpunk GM. But that's neither here nor there.
    Didn't like Jedi in d6? I mean, sure they start off like crap. But I always encourage Jedi in the group to take some supplimental "people" skills to get by for when the force just isn't working. Oh that and "Who needs sleep when you have Emptiness?" Emptiness is a pretty solid equalizer for beginning force users. As for them getting more powerful, well, there are certain things that can be done to keep that in check, without limiting CP. I like to warn of the "less is more" theory of force usage. The more the force is used (during the Imperial Era), the more attention you risk drawing. Unless you can go toe to toe with a guy like Vader, it's not worth the abuse of power. But that's just the way I GM it.
  5. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    *starts singing about Jan-low the useless Jedi, since she's not around to see*

    :)

    Since pretty much every game system I've ever seen needs a little tweaking to get it to do what I want, I don't mind the d6 problems with Jedi. For lightsaber combat, I use a system where, depending on how much one roll beats another, the result could be a kick or punch, rather than an actual deadly wound. It's a lot of fun, and it's made lightsaber combat a lot more than just a matter of who gets to go first.

    For Jedi balance, I start Jedi out as having some other template, being piloting, smuggler, or whatever the player comes up with. Then I add the Force skills to that template. For non-Jedi, I give them extra D or CP to play with. That way, the Jedi aren't weaklings, and but the other players get to be a little more powerful still, to balance the whole Force thing.

    YMMV, of course. :)
  6. BIG_BEN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    In a lot of ways, I liked D6 better. Simpler and easier to use most of the time. True, it really didn't handle the jedi well, but I have to disagree that d20 handles them much better. Every gaming system has its warts to be sure, but my biggest beef with d20 is that it is basically a carbon copy of the system used for D&D, and the Star Wars game was sort of made to "fit" the cookie-cutter WotC system rather than the other way around. Sometimes it worked OK, sometimes not at all. In general, it bogs things down too much with unnecessary minutiae. I'm using my own "system" now, I've gotten away from traditional role-playing because I found it to be more "roll-playing" than "role-playing". I've always felt that the game should be about the characters and not the rules.
  7. DeJoker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Well this seems to be a great place to start.

    Having gained some new players and dusted off my old books. I have started on this road once more.

    I glanced at the D20 system but having disliked their class system in 3E I decided it would be best to stick with a form of the D6 system and use WEG DCU rules to help augment and adjust the system for my needs.

    To this end I have come looking and I have noted that several of you mention your homebrewed rules for working out the kinks in the D6 system. This I found very interesting and was wondering if any of you would be willing to share those rules with a fellow StoryTeller.

    Oh as a note for whomever was looking for Merits and Flaws DCURPG has some in a D6 format.
  8. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    Big Ben: I have to agree about classes. And I HATE levels. With a passion. I can play in the system if I have to, but I don't want to run it. Blech. (And I understand that this is just my opinion, and others like it, and that's okay!) :)

    DeJoker: House rules. Let's see.

    Lightsaber combat:
    For unopposed rolls, I do it the same (have to get a 20 to hit, under 10 and you slice yourself). For opposed rolls, I use something approximating the following:
    0-3 advantage - next round, even if they beat your roll, they don't do damage.
    4-6 punch (str)
    7-10 kick (str+2)
    10-15 martial arts move (str+MA) or hit w/saber hilt (str+1d)
    16+ normal saber damage

    The numbers can vary any degree you want them to (I think I use something approximating the damage chart numbers, normally).

    Let's see, what else...I usually do away with "prerequisites" for learning force skills, and I decrease the difficulty levels, 'cause what's the point of being a Jedi if you can't do anything? :)

    One guy I know does not even bother having players roll their LSC Force skills to "put it up," unless they're new to the skill.

    Oh, one thing I decided was that I only do -1D for a force skill, even if it takes all three of the attributes. But I LIKE Jedi, at least at lower levels, so that makes it more amusing for me. :) And I don't usually bother with multiple action penalties for Force skills, unless the players are trying something they never have before, or are stretching their skills.

    And just because there isn't a skill for what the player is trying to do, if they can explain it, and it makes sense, I let them try. That works as well for if they don't have a skill but want to try it anyway.

    That's all I can think of for now, and coherncy deserted me a long time ago, so I'll be going now. :)
  9. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    A gamer proposed a Weapon Art skill. Basically a really showy secondary skill that shows more style to things. It starts as an advanced skill (1d), and can be raised normally. For every 4d, the character gets an additional d6 in the item he uses the art with. So someone with Weapon Art: Blasters, 8d isn't just a killer, but a suave fella who does all those cool gun tricks while blasting stuff, and gets a 2d bonus to his Blaster roll to reflect his training. It's the difference between Darth Maul and Old Obi Wan.
    I had a list of Merits and Flaws somewhere, but I think it's on my work PC. Other than that, I mainly do ammo mods for slug throwers. Though hell, I'm not above using a good suggestion if I see it. After all, anything that makes the game better is cool to me.
  10. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    Oh, another thing I try to do is encourage my players to describe their actions, so that it's not just, "I take a swing at him," but, "I come in fast and hard, aiming for his arm." For things like that, I don't bother with the called shot penalty, because they're trying to be more descriptive, and that takes some of the burden off of me. :)
  11. BIG_BEN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah Ping, description of action is really key to good roleplaying. Something you said reminded me about what I feel is a crappy damage system for lightsabers in d20 based on those levels (which I despise as well). Actually, I haven't seen either system treat lightsabers quite as they should, but they are considerably weaker in d20, IMO. Don't get me wrong though, I don't think that WotC's system is bad in and of itself, I just think that it's ill-suited to Star Wars.
  12. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    description is cool for detailed battles, but for short squirmishes with NPC goons It's generally a one shot one kill for goons. If it's a really cool shot then they get the "Vicious Hollywood Exaggeration" effect. Stuff like chests disintegrating, head shots where hair catches on fire, burning holes through body parts, assorted lots of other stuff. Gruesome fun for all.
  13. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    That's true, Tremaniac. Skirmishes are more, "He drops. He drops. You get stunned. He drops." But for lightsaber battles and space battles, I like to encourage more description in my players. Heaven knows I'm bad enough at it! :)
  14. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    Actually, in the true sense of Player Bastardliness with Teamwork when it counts, the players in my group will NEVER let the jedi fight a lightsaber duel by himself willingly. They will all standback, wait for duel to start, if dark jedi seems hellbent on killing, they shoot in the back with 8 gauge shotgun repeatedly. Vicious people, but they do know how to look out for one another. Which says something about them as a group methinks.
  15. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    Tremaniac, that's pretty cool. Unless you want a dramatic, climactic duel. That's what transparasteel is for, though, right? Either that, or a strict enforcement of the complications rule if they roll a 1. *eg*
  16. Maj-Odo_Taji Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 1
    My favorite is to have the Dark Jedi trigger the force field or magnetically seal the room, disallowing any blasting of the "door" or "wall" to help your pal. Then toss some Stormtroopers or other threat at them.

    Merc bounty hunters are always fun, too...

    He who dislikes disentigrations,
    Maj-Odo Taji
  17. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    I guess I could have the Jedi "Qui Gon" his way into an individual fight by isolating him from the group at a dramatically appropriate moment. Of course, then behind them comes herds upon herds of assorted bad guys. The problem with climatic battles is I'm not really sure if the players are ready for that big battle yet. Not just skill wise, I mean as players as well. For some of them, this is literally thier first view of a galaxy from a heroes point of view. I think they need a little bit more seasoning before the dark jedi start creeping out of the woodwork.
  18. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    Hey, if anyone else plays the D6 system still, i hate to spam. But there is an online version of the West End games RPG running, and there is a group of Gamemasters and Branch Gamemasters, running SWIndependents, SWEmpire, and SWNew Republic. It's quite highly organised and i've been a member of it for over 2 years.
    there's a campaign going on at the moment, tactical battles and stuff. it works on a set of bulletin boards kinda like this.
    It's set 9 years after the battle of Endor, type in 'Star Wars RPG' in a search engine,or follow one of the links below to go to the website :)
    Starwarsclub.org Main site
    New Republic
    Empire
    Independents
  19. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    oh also, i really dont like the D20 system, the D6 system is much easier to comprehend, and the Force skills are a lot better than in the D20 system. I like Pings house rule about the -1D multi action penalty for powers that use all 3 control, sense and alter.

    One of the house rules that we've got at the place above is that when you create your character, you write a background for them, outlining their history, and depending on the quality of it, you can receive as many as 18 Bonus Die to add to individual skills (as many as 3D per single skill). This helps to customise your characters more, and the background really gives them their own character. if you go to SWNR Jedi Academy and go into the bulletin board system as a guest, you can view the quality of the players there. The advantage of doing it online rather than table top is that you can take the time and effort to develop your character better and go into more detail.
  20. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    sorry if it seems like i was trashing the D20 system by the way, i was just expressing my opinion :) I dont suppose anyone knows where to get the WEG sourcebooks from? ive got the core rule book 2nd edit. R&E off of Ebay, and there are others on there too. but i dont like ordering off the net much :confused:
  21. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    For WEG books, a source I hadn't thought about was at a sci-fi/fantasy convention. A friend of mine picked up a bunch for 5-10 each at a Carolina Con, IIRC. Yea for friends! (Now I have Heros and Rogues and Tramp Freighters.)

    I like that house rule, Matt, and I tend to do similar things. I'm starting a Stargate campaign using the D6 system, and I gave one player an additional D for being the first in with her character idea, and an extra CP for coming up with the term "Adrenaline points" for our Force-point equivalents. I gave another player several D for writing up the introduction to the campaign. (It started out as her character's introduction to the SG project, but it was just so darn cool, and fit the idea I had for the game, so I decided to go with it for the introduction.) Okay, enough rambling for me. :)
  22. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    heheh cool :). the Backgrounds that pick up 18 bonus die coer everything in detail, as well as the characters feelings at the time, and tend to be around about 4000 words in length or more lol. my characters got 15Bonus die for 5500 words. i missed out some detail in it ;). so really, if you really want to create your character for long term development, then the extra effort is worth it :). Due to the Bonus die, my character had 4D in each Force skill after final approval :D
  23. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2002
    star 4
    thanks for the info about where to pick up source books too, i desperately want everything Force-related i can get. My character can train other force sensitive characters now, and if you dont have a master, or do but just dont roleplay the teaching of the ability, then it costs double in terms of CP's and time (it might even be weeks instead of days). And in the club I'm a member of, which the links above go to, its good to get the lessons as detailed as possible as you get awarded a small amount of CP's for it. So having an idea about how to teach the ability is useful <G> Plus there's all the lightsaber construction things too. :)
  24. Tremaniac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 3
    The best force related WEG book you can get your hands on is the Tales of the Jedi sourcebook. Every force power up till that sourcebook. Other than that Crakens Threat Dossier has the stuff for force witches, like the Dathomir Witches.
    As for finding stuff, THANK YOU PING! You are the MAN! I will now scour every con I go to. Before I was busy looking for my 8" Stormtrooper and Royal Guardsman, but this is new priority. Other than that, you could get lucky at a flea market (a friend of mine cleaned up on some Cyberpunk stuff, like a buck a sourcebook, heh heh heh) or the out of the way shelves at the local hobby shop. I've found tons of Chill stuff at the Strat that way. Other than that, sadly, ebay seems to be the constant for finding stuff.
    Incidentally, should someone come across the Rebel Spec Ops book, I'm looking for a copy.
  25. Ping Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 1998
    star 3
    *clears throat, looking prim* The MAN? *looks down* I think not!

    ;)

    (I know the alias is confusing, and there's a loooong story behind it.) :)

    In addition to the TotJ sourcebook, which I highly recommend, you might also investigate martial arts training techniques, things that old masters would use to teach their students lessons, not just about fighting, but about honor and morality and stuff like that. Or really any "old teacher" sort of thing. Parables, mystic sayings, all sorts of things like that can spice up what might be a dull lesson.

    Another thing to think about is a way to "visualize" each power. How does your character perceive what he's doing? For example, if he's searching the city for the peculiar Force signature of his best friend, does he visualize sending himself out and looking at different people, or does he picture it as a grey fog that he tries to see his friend's spark in, or is it something else? In a role-playing setting, this can be fun, especially if you do it one way, but your pupil can only do it if they perceive it another way. :)
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