Ambiguity in the OT

I am a firm believer that Lucas did not have everything planned out when he wrote ANH. He has confessed to that. However, it is fun to watch Lucas jump through hoops in order to make connections.

After watching AN last night, these lines struck be as wonderfully ambiguous (once again):

Beru: He has too much of his father in him.
Owen: That's what I'm afraid of.

If Vader was originally intended to be Luke's father, the above statements are self-explanatory. Owen is afraid Luke has the potential for evil. The other side of the coin (if Vader was not Anakin, and actually did murder Luke's father),
Owen is afraid Luke will run off, join the rebellion, and get killed since he has his father's adventurous qualities.

I'd like to discuss the loopholes and ambiguous statements present in the OT.

Some others that come to mind:

1: Obi-Wan's "Your father wanted you to have this ... ".

True statement, or setup for Ep. 3? Most Obi-Wan statements can either be boiled down to a blatant lie, or the truth, depending on how much you think Lucas had planned out from the beginning.

2: Vader's presence and role in ANH.
Commanders talk back to him often, he seems subservient to Tarkin, his voice is at a higher pitch, and he does his own dirty work (flying his modified TIE in battle).

3: The sexual tension between Luke and Leia. Meant to be a blossoming relationship, or something to make the audience go "ewwwww!" in ROTJ?

4: Solo's Special Edition comment to Jabba about him being a "wonderful human being". Sarcasm, or holdover from the original footage and idea of Jabba as a human being?

Of course the loopholes are harder to locate in ESB, and are almost non-existent in ROTJ.

Still, a fun thing to think about.

 

A lot to think about there buddy!!!

GOOD POST

 

Wow, this is quite and interesting thread

I think Lucas had an idea of what he was writing when he mad ANH.....the hting is, I'm not sure he knew it would get as popular as it would......so the possibility of realizing that he eventually had to put Episode 1 to film......some of the things he originally wrote down for ANH, weren't goign to go together so smoothly as he planned or perhaps didn't make sense.

Obi wan saying that "Your father wanted you to have this": I don't know if thats a set up or E3 or the truth, I really don't. Perhaps Obi Wan i the one that wanted Luke to have it instead after his battle with Anakin....maybe he felt he would not make the same mistakes with Luke when he was older. So his line "Your father wanted you to have this" could possibly just be a reason for him to get Luke his own lightsaber and train him.

Another possibility is that just before Anakin turns to the darkside, he makes some sort of statement to Obi-Wan, that if he gets to see his son grow older, he will give him his lightsaber. Cause I mean if he GIVES Obi Wan the lightsaber to give to his child.......wouldn't that mean that Anakin KNEW about Luke and Leia???

I guess we'll see in E3

Luke and Leia: Yeah, it might have made you go eeewwwww, but I mean think about it.....if you grew up your entire life not knowing you had a sister or a brother and the two of you met, there is that possibility of somethign blooming. We didn't see anythign wrong with it until we saw ROTJ.....how do you think Luke and Leia felt, LoL! I'm sure they had a LONG talk after ROTJ ended, LoL!!! . Bottom line, if they didn't know, then nothign is wrong with it, what woudl be wrong is if they DID know and still did it.

Solo Special Edition: I have to say, that was pretty funny to watch. I believe it is a slip up on Lucas' part to not have changed it......but if you watch the scene again and really think about it........it's funny to watch and a pretty good joke towards Jabba in the end. It helps show Han Solo's sarcasm that he is so known for Slip up or not, I think it works out in the end, LoL!

 

As I recall, Jabba was never intended to be a human being, even when they filmed the actor in the 70s. He was just a stand-in for a special effects creation that never got made... until the glorious SE.

(If I'm wrong, someone say so.)



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Well, as far as the Jabba thing goes, I heard that they originally filmed that scene with Jabba being a Human, but later decided to cut the scene from the original.

So when they decided to do the Special Edition, they added the scene back in and instead of using the human being from the original scene, they used graphics over him, replacing him with the digital Jabba.

Thats what I heard, that it was orgianlly a human, but they took the scene out when it hit the theaters in 77'.

 

I've seen the original scene with the Scottish guy as Jabba So much different But I think it works out in the SE anyway... however I wouldn't really know because I don't watch the SEs and haven't seen that scene in a long time

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Yes, Jabba was originally filmed with a person 'standing in' for a creature that was suppose to be an FX shot but I believe time and money left the scene on the cutting room floor.

The human being comment at the end of the scene was intended to be a smart mouth insult, knowing Jabba was niether human or wonderful.

I believe that Vader was always Luke's father from day one, when in Obi's hut, Obi paused for that one second before going into the details of Luke's father, you didn't know what it was at the time but you knew SOMETHING was up, it was obvious and it was intended to be.

As for Luke's father wanting him to have the light saber, the jury will be out until ep.III but I have always thought that was a lie. I found Obi to bend and manipulate the truth a lot in the OT but I believe it was done to prevent Luke for being frighten of by the actual truth about Vader, the Emperor and the up hill battle Luke had before him if he were to become a Jedi. Obi fed him what he needed to know and what he needed to hear and some of that required lying. Obi knew that Luke wanted to hear something, ANYTHING about his father, so why not tell him that his father actually wanted him to have this, his very own light saber that actually belonged to his father. I look at it as Obi kick starting Luke's interest in becoming a Jedi, without Luke actually seeing it coming. I will be VERY surprise if in ep.III Anakin saying anything about wanting his son to have the saber. I'm sure it can be Anakin's but I'm curious as to how it actually comes into Obi's pocession.

 

ANH is ambigiuos at points. The reason why is when filming the movie, Lucas was not sure whether or not there would be any sequels. he therefore wanted to make a movie that could stand alone, just in case there weren't anymore. But he also wanted to leave room for potential sequels. That is the reason for certain ambiguities in ANH. They were just little tidbits to leave open the possibility for future storylines, if sequels could ever be made.

 

Yes, Jabba was originally filmed with a person 'standing in' for a creature that was suppose to be an FX shot but I believe time and money left the scene on the cutting room floor.

Follow the link for details...

Star Wars: Episode IV | A New Hope: Special Edition - What has changed?

 

Entichen, about Owen's comments about being afraid that Luke had too much of his father in him, I don't think he knew Anakin went evil. I think someone (almost certainly Obi-Wan) lied to him and told that Anakin was killed Owen was probably afraid that Luke would get killed too.

 

The sexual tension between Luke and Leia. Meant to be a blossoming relationship, or something to make the audience go "ewwwww!" in ROTJ?

Sexual tension? Between those two? Are you kidding? As far as I see it, it was all Han and Leia all the time. Luke just watched from the sidelines. I mean, yeah, he had a crush on her, but there was never even the slightest threat of something developing between those two.

 

Wasn't there? Leia seemed pretty happy to be around Luke at the awards ceremony at the end of ANH. Han, on the other hand, came across as a sleazebag. It wasn't until ESB that the lines fell the way they did.