Lit An Analysis of the New Jedi Order and its Role in the Star Wars Mythos

Not that I'm actually taking her side on this, but you do know "death of the author" is a thing, right? And not just one limited to pretentious literati.

 

Indeed I do, and that's why Stover clammed up about Traitor after that interview (although I suspect it's really because that he was actually feeling a lot like I am feeling right now).

And that's why Yoda is a Sith Lord.

Edit: Although the Lit board seems to be pretty adamantly against "death of the author" with its absolute obsession with canon. Except in this case I guess.

That's what I love about the Lit board though. It really picks its lines in the sand, and they're always great. Like Grievous' characterization in the microseries. That was a real bummer it didn't carry over. He had a lot of depth before they made him Snidely Whiplash. JINO makes sense though.

Though I think it's because he was trained by Palpatine's official Sith apprentice, Luke Skywalker, not Vergere. Caedus failed to kill his Sith master though so he was a scrub apprentice until his death. I guess Luke is better than Jacen in that sense; he did ascend to Sith mastery by killing Sidious -- indirectly, as it were. But then, so did Plagueis.

 

I'm a guy, fyi. I just like Sabine.

I don't so much disagree with the author, so much as understand there is often more going on behind the scenes than we are privy to. Plus, is my problem really with the author, or simply the way he chose to portray his mouthpiece character? I love Shatterpoint and Mindor. I have no problem with the 'type' of Jedi that Mace is, or the thought processes of Luke (outside making him needlessly grim, when generally he has been a bastion of hope and light). Stover may very well have intended everything Vergere says to Jacen to be for his (and the common) good, for him to be a new and better style of Jedi, and so forth... and in that case he shouldn't have written their conversations as though the ROTS opera scene music should have been playing through every one of them. I pointed out my examples in what you listed alone, and why they might be interpreted... differently. And I do recall there were more.

Also, really? Lit isn't a hive mind. Before I goofle it in a moment, I have no clue what 'death of the author' even means, beyond the fact its probably a trope or something.

Edit: turns out I agree with the concept of "death of the author".

 

They were intentionally written to be ambiguous.

The important part was how Jacen interpreted them.

The thing is, Jacen didn't take away the sinister interpretations which some people took away from them. And he didn't act in a way that suggested that he did for the rest of the series. Which makes those interpretations effectively meaningless within the context of the NJO series.

Even if we were to accept the subsequent retcon, it still doesn't explain how Jacen's takeaway from Traitor suddenly shifted after the series ended and Troy Denning started writing the books.

 

But you haven't done TUF yet.

Also you should get a mod to edit the OP and explain that for the purposes of this thread you're pretending the post-NJO doesn't exist. If you'd been prescient enough to think of that you could have avoided these kinds of tangents.

 

so imagine you're on a Star Wars board, and you decide you really like Yoda and Luke, and you want to write a thread about how Yoda makes these interesting philosophical observations and how Luke interprets them, and you start writing it but say at the onset that you don't want to really argue about it or anything it's just sort of a commentary of yours on it and you know maybe it's controversial for some reason but you have another thread for that

and so you start writing about what Yoda says, and then some people post and it's like

I like what you are writing and imma let you finish but I don't agree at all, Yoda is a Sith Lord and he made Luke turn to the dark side because that happens in Dark Empire, and he told Luke to kill his own father even though Luke was supposed to redeem his father, because Yoda was actually assisting Palpatine on a layup and getting him to replace his crappy robot apprentice with a better one and that's finally fulfilled in Dark Empire, because Sidious also wanted Luke to kill Vader and so did Yoda, and also even though Luke wasn't really dark in the movies, he did turn to the dark side eventually after all and we know Obi-Wan was culpable for Anakin turning because he thought he could teach Anakin as good as Yoda and he was wrong, and well if Yoda's apprentice turned to the dark side that must be intentional on Yoda's part then!

and so your commentary on Yoda's teachings turns into this debate over whether it's reasonable to take this alternate interpretation, because maybe it wasn't what the writer intended or anything but it's a perfectly legitimate interpretation to have because it's there in the dialogue and maybe some of those scenes with Yoda are similar to some other scenes with a bad guy, and also Yoda breathes and so does the bad guy

and then you're told you still have to write about Return of the Jedi

 

But there is, in fact, no darkness outside, right? And the Jedi allegedly know as much... but are lying about it.

( No inconsistency with the Jedi view to see here, folks; move right along, thanks. )

So if the complete lack of darkness outside is reflected inside, well then that would mean there isn't any darkness inside either.

Much success!

Neither does Lucas, as it turns out. Stover DOTAs Lucas, but someone else DOTAs Stover.

How is one of these things any more acceptable than the other?

It's the circle of life...

 

where do you get Yoda being a sith lord. makes zero sense.

 

lol

 

i see i missed the punchline somewhere. ok so catch me up

 

I hope you're happy trip and Catherine.

 

*walks into thread*

Uh...

 

I'm not sure how relevant it is but I think it's time to bust out one of my favorite gifs of all time.



I think it's from The Hobbit.

 

Random GIFs FTW.

 

You remind me of a guy I played poker with one time who thought he'd won the hand because he had a "red flush".

 

were all his cards red?

I think it would be an interesting exercise to go to a Zen monastery and whenever a monk lays a kōan down on you to take it completely literally every time.

 

I think this will be helpful for some folks

 

"Red Flush" sounds like something from Game of Thrones or maybe something that would require prompt medical attention.

 

I forgot where I left off? _Catherine_ Trip

I'm too lazy to read the thread again to find out also it might make me change my mind if I do

edit: obligatory gif

 

Did you explain TUF yet?

 

no I didn't even finish Traitor

 

omg

 

I know, I'm a terrible person. Wow, this thread only went two pages before it went off the rails, and I only made it to chapter six.