An Ever Growing Problem: The Lack of Respect for Darth Vader

Yeah, that's true the comic Anakin was pretty much a proto-Vader in many respects, so scratch that.

Oh yeah, it definitely wouldn't have worked and I do feel that the character as Lucas created him was a complete success it's just different than what I'd have done in his position, though his was certainly more accessable and there's a completely visible progression.

 

I don't have any issues with the PT story per se.
-IMO (and a few others) Jake Lloyd just couldn't deliver the level of performance required.
And he apparently didn't get much help from the director. ?-wasn't a dialogue coach used in ROTS? That may have helped in the performance dept.
-The script - what people actually said to illustrate the story detracted from the plot itself.

Your idea might've worked - who knows? The story we saw in the PT went through countless changes, and any one of those versions might have been just as good.

 

-IMO (and a few others) Jake Lloyd just couldn't deliver the level of performance required.

What kind of performance could you honestly expect from him?

Anakin needed to be portrayed as a young, innocent child. The audience needed to see that even the most innocent, caring people can turn into something as horrible as Darth Vader. Had the films began with him as a moody teenager, the transformation would not have been nearly as impactful. it is because we get to see him change so drastically in the name of power that makes his fall from grace so horrific.

 

Oh I need to clarify that I don't really have issues either, I just find it's style to be different in some ways than that of the OT and while I know it was purposeful I just like to think of how a PT with a style more like that of the Original Trilogy in terms of the plot would have gone.

 

I'd expect a performance that would show a young, innocent child, instead of a young actor woodenly reading lines with no help from the director. After seeing very good performances from young actors like Dakota Fanning, or Haley Joel Osmet, I know that a child actor could portray a good-hearted child convincingly - I don't think the movies had to begine with the moody teenager.
Of course, GL couldn't use "faster, more intense" for young innocence, so there goes any help from that area.

 

With Lucas wanting to start the saga showing Anakin as a child, I think he messed up a bit in TPM. He wanted to show us how a good, sweet kid goes from being an evil Sith Lord. But the problem with that is how he presented a younger Anakin. TPM Anakin is supposed to be a sweet kid, but it also needs to be credible that Anakin is a brooding teenager as a Jedi. So Lucas made him a slave in TPM. But we never see Anakin flipping out as a child. There was a deleted scene of him attacking a young Greedo in TPM, which I felt would have helped a lot with Anakin's characterization. As it is now, Anakin behavior from TPM to AotC leaves a lot of questions of what happened to make him act like a jerk in AotC? Lucas needed to show more concerning behavior from Anakin in TPM and much less in AotC. Anakin's life as a slave seems a bit rosier than usual; he lives with his mother and doesn't seem particularly unhappy as one would expect. That were that deleted scene would really help. Instead, we have to use our imagination of how lousy his life was offscreen.

And if Lucas had shown Anakin's issues and behaviors more clearly in TPM and less in AotC, I think fans would have responded much more to Anakin's character. Giving Anakin blowups and outbursts in TPM, but making it clear he's a good kid and that his life as a slave has really effected him would have served his character arch better. Then in AotC, he's far more mature and wiser as a Jedi, as many fans were expecting he would be presented. I really think that all that would be neccessary to move the character foward would be his attack on the Tusken's showing us that under the right circumstances, emotions from his childhood could be brought out again. Instead, watching him argue with Obiwan and his blowup in front of Padme, culminating with "It's not fair!" was a major turnoff. Anakin's behavior as a young Jedi in AotC is a major issue with many fans to the point it has consumed the character of Anakin/Vader. I'm sure many posters are farmiliar with it, but you should see how Vader is talked about in the PT Forum. Outright disrespect. Darth Vader will never be the same because of it, and it all started with Lucas's characterization of Anakin in TPM and AotC.

 

GOing along with what the Vader 66 mentioned about The PT making Vader seem weak....I always thought ROTJ made Vader out to be a broken man who really didnt want to do anyone harm, but it was too late for him to turn...and if it wasn't for his son almost dying he would have stayed a coward and kept to the dark side!! Also he mentioned something about how Vader never used his dark side Powers in ROTJ, and how people judge him out be nothing more than a mere Sith Lord now. Well maybe if he would have used his darkside powers against Luke, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If any of the movies are to be blamed for Darth Vader's image as being a wimp, then I would have to say it would be ROTJ!!!! It showed Vader as being weak...not able to make his own decisions, being bullied by the emperoror, and not able to stand up for himself....I think that is why ROTJ is my least favorite of the saga.

 

I was watching ANH recently with the commentary with Lucas, Fisher, and 2 other guys. I noticed him mention how he felt Vader was pitiful in this particular film. Being talked down to by officers, who were basically portrayed as his equal for the most part. He seemed to think it was quite sad. This was interesting to me because I never got that vibe at all. I always saw Vader as a baddie in all of the OT. I guess the voice, the suit, and the great music had more of an impact on me at the time. Sometimes the subtlety of a character is lost on me I suppose. When you crush a mans larynx from across the room, its tough to come off as pathetic.

On a side note, who is this frekin sound guy on the commentary? I don't need or want a half hour dissertation on where he got the sounds to use on Lukes landspeeder. Who wants to hear some actual insight into the encounter between Obi and Vader from Lucas? No..no..wait...lets hear about how you rub sheet metal together with dry ice to make lightsaber noises =P Theres a place for all that useless crap, its called the second disc!!!
Sorry for the rant.

 

I think showing more of the temple raid wouldve went bounds for making Vader appear more infamous

The casual viewer doesnt understand Vader jumping 50 ft on Mustafar is a big deal..or force choking people on another ship with ur mind is powerful..or even jumping out the car in AOTC

Many people took these things lightly

 

The latter is not powerful. Anyone can jump out a flying car.


And that was hardly 50 feet. Obi-Wan seemed to have jumped further when he springs out his cockpit on the Invisible Hand.

 

And live?

Yes, with quite solid ground directly below him.

 

Wow u need to watch episode 3 again...Anakin jumped from the collapsing structure ACROSS alot of lava...Obi Wans jump doesnt even compare

and yes people jump outta cars every day knowing there going to be saved

 

It's not much of one, at least not more so than the feats that they had just seen minutes before in the senate.

I've never met a person who didn't see why that one was impressive.

It is, but it seems fairly typical for a Jedi given that Obi-Wan basically survives the same thing when he falls from Zam's droid.

 

That jump was amazing. Vader is halfway over the lavafall and he has to jump half a football field to land on top of a small driod. That was very impressive. In the RotS novel, as Anakin is on the arm, going over the lavafall, Obiwan thinks Anakin is as good as dead. He even says "goodbye, Anakin". The whole reason Anakin doesn't get credit for that amazing jump is the fact five minutes later, he can't make what is seemingly a much easier jump. The continuity gets all out of wack.

As for scenes of Vader raiding the Temple, I agree. Walking out of the threater the first time I saw RotS, my only complaint is not seeing Vader killing Jedi inside the Temple. Even if the hologram was turned into an actual scene, it would have been better of Vader taking on three Jedi at once, bigger and more clearly. There is a deleted scene of Vader killing Shaak Ti in the Temple, but it is not a canonical death. She later appears as an Order 66 survivor in Force Unleashed. But it would be cool anyway to see Vader kill her.

 

Yeah, you're probably right that the later jump is a large part of it. I just don't see a massive Force jump being anywhere near as impressive as Palpatine's Lighting or Yoda's ability to block that lightning with his bare hands.

 

To me it's not which is more impressive, but that you need to acknowledge that the jump is impressive. The poster that brought the jump up said that fans don't understand how impressive that Force jump was. And I agree. When your comparing powers like that, your really just talking about 1 and 1-a. They are all impressive Force feats that the common (or even just good) Force sensitives couldn't do. The cream of the crop are only capable of such feats. And I don't see Vader's jump getting the credit it's do. I agree Palpatine's lightning is impressive, as well as Yoda's Force block (absorption?), but what about Vader's Force block on Bespin? Why isn't anyone singing his praises for that? I thought that was amazing when I first saw him block Han Solo's shot and take the blaster out of his hand. It seems in general, Vader gets shafted on how good he is. He does some pretty impressive things in the films.

 

To this day every time I see Anakin do that jump and I just go nuts..He accomplished so many dangerous feats without any fear..it seems almost hard to swallow a man that can jump outta a car or jump over lava could be fearful of loss of people

One thing that makes me scratch my head is that we see Vader accomplish many things and we have no idea of really knowing how powerful Vader has grown in the force since the PT..while we know his potential is cut in half he just does things that are in their own league.he just comes off totally different in the OT wisdom wise.maybe not as powerful as sith lightning but very interesting

 

Personal danger isn't near as potentially terrifying as danger to those you love. You presumably have a level of direct control over personal danger; not so much for your family.