An Explanation of the Big Bang and Evolution that doesn't exclude God.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Rouge Null, Nov 28, 2004.

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  1. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    You reject 99% of religions out there. What is rejecting the Bible compared to that?

  2. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Faith... Its just something you believe
  3. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    But why don't you have faith in the Koran (or any other scripture for that matter)?
  4. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Because I don't. Its not something i can explain to you, its a belief, its faith. I was raised that way, i have made the decision to agree with my parents beliefs, therefore i believe it.
  5. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    Then you are very foolish.

    I would tell you not to enter discussions if you can not explain why you believe something.

  6. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Who is the fool? One who does not believe in God, quoted from scripture. I aplogize, i will defend my belief in a moment, I'm talking on the phone lol
  7. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    My apologies, I cant talk concentrate and write, but I am ready to discuss it now
  8. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    If I quoted from scripture, it is an attempt to engage in debate using the same assumptions.

    Without the same assumptions to base premises on, debate is useless.

  9. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Very true, very true. One thing that supports my belief is a lack of proof for evolution, or the big bang theory, or anything like that.
  10. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    For example, scientests believe that the stars formed out of collapsed clouds, is that correct? Clouds need to be pushed somehow to begin that.. old chicken and the egg problem

    Any response? I find your lack of faith disturbing
  11. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    Very true, very true. One thing that supports my belief is a lack of proof for evolution, or the big bang theory, or anything like that.

    There is plenty of proof for both. I just took introduction to Astronomy last semester at UNL and there are a couple things off the top of my head that I remember supporting the Big Bang theory. Mainly, that on a large scale, everything is moving away from each other and that the farther out you look, the faster it is moving away. I good way to visualize this is to take a noninflated balloon, make a bunch of marker dots on it, and blow it up.

    For example, scientests believe that the stars formed out of collapsed clouds, is that correct? Clouds need to be pushed somehow to begin that.. old chicken and the egg problem

    For one there is gravity. If I remember right there are three or four other factors that cause a portion of a nebula to contract into a star. I would need my astronomy book to list these, but unfortunately I don't have it handy.

    I would suggest that you take a college level introduction to astronomy class as well as an introduction to anthropology class and see if you still believe there is no evidence. Besides, its not like these classes are the boring english or math type; they are actually pretty interesting.
  12. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    lol id love to, problem is im 14 ;)

    I'm glad you raised the point of everything expanding. For example, the moon is moving away from the Earth at about an inch to 1/2 an inch a year. When you figure that out with its current location, it means the maximum age of the moon at about 1.3 billion years (thats a maximum age, considering it never moved farther, or less for that matter) Also, did you know that blood cells and hemoglobin have been found in dinosaur bones?They wouldnt have lasted the supposed 60 some million years that scientests use as the dinosaurs age.
  13. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    For example, the moon is moving away from the Earth at about an inch to 1/2 an inch a year.

    Except gravity counteracts that motion. The expansion of the universe would not cause the moon to move farther away.

    Also, did you know that blood cells and hemoglobin have been found in dinosaur bones?They wouldnt have lasted the supposed 60 some million years that scientests use as the dinosaurs age.

    I remember reading that article a couple weeks ago. However, that was the first time it ever happened and involves a special process. I don't believe blood and tissue last more than a couple hundred years (if that), but I hope your not trying to say there were dinosaurs in the last couple hundred years.

    lol id love to, problem is im 14

    Well, then in six or seven years you can find out all about it. ;)
  14. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    lol yeah maybe i will. Still, it does make you think, blood cells in "65 million year old" bones or so. What was the special process that occured (not trying to raise doubt, simply wondering)?
  15. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Very true, very true. One thing that supports my belief is a lack of proof for evolution, or the big bang theory, or anything like that.

    Sorry if this derails the thread, but there is plenty of proof for evolution. However, I think you may be confused about the difference between evolution as fact, which can be proven, and evolution as theory, which cannot. Evolution is defined as the genealogical connection among all earthly organisms, based on their descent from a common ancestor. Evolutionary theories are simply hypotheses that are proposed to explain the causes of evolutionary change. As I've said numerous times, one can have full faith in God and still acknowledge the fact that evolution does happen.
  16. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Yes, I believe changes within species occurs, but not birds evolving into dinosaurs, or something to that extent. The fossil record is pretty clear that that didnt happen, by lack of fossils
  17. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    Who ever suggested birds evolved into dinosaurs?

    E_S
  18. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, I believe changes within species occurs...

    Um, that's exactly what evolution is, man. People just have trouble coming to terms with the idea that over hundreds of thousands of generations, those tiny changes within species keep adding up until an entirely different species develops--one that is so different on a genetic level that it would be unable to successfully reproduce with the "original" species it descended from.

    ...but not birds evolving into dinosaurs, or something to that extent.

    Dinosaurs evolved into birds, not the other way around.

    The fossil record is pretty clear that that didnt happen, by lack of fossils.

    This comment reminds me of a creationist I read about who was gloating about how there was no way whales could have evolved from land mammals. It was pretty interesting, considering all the fossils of Ambulocetus and Protocetus that we have discovered, which clearly show how such evolution could have happened over millions of years.
  19. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    "This comment reminds me of a creationist I read about who was gloating about how there was no way whales could have evolved from land mammals. It was pretty interesting, considering all the fossils of Ambulocetus and Protocetus that we have discovered, which clearly show how such evolution could have happened over millions of years."

    Really? I was under the impression that as for "Ambulocetus" they havent found the pelvic girdle, which would show you whether it was transitionary or not. And if you mean Pakicetus, than that has even less fossil proof, they only found part of the skull, which means it cant be verified as a transitional fossil either.
  20. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    I was under the impression that as for "Ambulocetus" they havent found the pelvic girdle...

    That is not true. As you can see from this fossil image:

    [image=http://www.neoucom.edu/Depts/Anat/Hans/AmbulocetusPhoto.jpg]

    The fossilized remains of Ambulocetus clearly show that it was a "transitional" animal that could live in water as well as on land, much like an otter or crocodile today. CLICK HERE for more on the Ambulocetus, Pakicetus, Basilosaurus, and other ancestors of modern whales.
  21. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    My apologies, the last thing id read about it was before they had found more bones.
  22. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    There is nothing you need to apologize for! Just remember that evolution and God are not mutually exclusive ideas.
  23. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    ClonedEmperor

    Valid point, and good arguement, but what i don't understand is if someone like Jediflyer can accept that the universe could have possibly always been here, why couldnt they accept that God has always been here?

    Let me give my take on that. The simple reason to me is that the universe is something that clearly exists that need not have any absolutes that forces it to need a beginning whereas a common evidence I have heard for God is that everything needs a beginning, including the universe, so there must be a God. It leads to what I see as a contradiction when you start to say that God does not need a beginning. Many evidences for God have the same problem (something must move everything, yet you contradict yourself when you say God was unmoved).

    And what others said is valid too.
  24. Vagrant Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 3
    Also, did you know that blood cells and hemoglobin have been found in dinosaur bones?

    Really? I suppose you are talking about a certain T-rex. Do you mean actual cells or traces of cells? If actual cells, I'm interested, if anything other I'll continue to lurk.

    Cheers!
  25. ClonedEmperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    I believe it was actual cells, and I'll take Jediflyer's words at face value and tell you it needed a certain process to happen
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