An Idea for Discussion of.....Ideas.

I'll give you an example relevant to me, and then a suggestion for what can be done in such a situation.

Not too long ago, we have had the discussion on the JCC, and ways to reform and improve it. I gave a number of ideas, ones that I thought could be quite handy.

The administration told me that the ideas would be taken into the ModSquad and discussed. They were all essentially rejected. Now, that is the perogative of the administration to do that. I'm fine with them not liking my ideas.

The issue here, is that once the administration take the ideas into the ModSquad, they are the only ones that get to discuss it. This, however, is not the optimal situation. 'Why?' I hear you ask...well, read on.

The best person to discuss the ideas with is the person that devised them. Why? Because they have thought about them the most. They know the pros and cons. They are the ones to best defend the ideas and their relevance/usefulness. Mods arent the ones that know the intricacies of the ideas.

Essentially, the person most important to the defending of the ideas just doesnt get a chance to do so.

Now, I know that the ModSquad should be kept private. I'm not asking the administration to invite members in, in order to give them a chance to discuss their ideas.

However, it isnt that difficult for the administration to create a private board. The member can be allowed into this board to discuss (and defend) their ideas with the administration. The person that knows the most about the idea actually gets a chance to be involved in the relevant high-level discussion.

The member doesnt have to step up. If they feel that they arent needed for good discussion of their ideas, then they dont have to join in. If they feel intimidated by the setup, then they dont have to join in. But they will have the opportunity. I know I'm always happy to defend my ideas. Its part of what I do for a living, and I'm happy for it to be something I do here.

Additionally, if the administration wants it to be so, this idea can be extended beyond discussion of ideas. If the administration has an issue they would like to discuss with a member, then they can set up a similar board.

Essentially, right now the members have no 'right of response' to what is being said in the ModSquad. I would like to bring this in. I would like the members to be able to discuss ideas with the administration.

If the administration wants to discuss this in the ModSquad, thats good by me. But if you think that it isnt necessary, or have issues with it, well, its my idea, and I'd rather I actually get to be a part of the discussion instead of have it rejected without proper defense.

 

Yes, i can see your point that if you come up with idea's then who better to defend and argue (in a good way) your point but yourself. It would carry more weight. The 'inbetween' person can lead to communication breakdown. What about a section where people can put points of order to the administration and then this could be discussed between respective Mods and the person who put forward the idea only. If others not involved or not helpful to the discussion post on that thread then they can be warned that its not helpful and basically rude towards his/her fellow posters. An idea?

 

TK, you mean having a private discussion here in Communications?

No, cant work. You cant keep people out of discussions here. Plus many mods dont want to come to Communications for whatever reason.

You would need to be removed from the public arena.

Just to add to the first post:
The extra board etc wouldnt, of course, have to apply to all ideas...but the ones that the mods are taking seriously, and want to discuss in the ModSquad...well, those are the ones that would warrant the extra discussion with the inventor.

 

Not here in Communications, Darth. A specified area for this sort of thing where the rules are that its between the idea originator and the mods to discuss. Maybe even in private.

 

Considering this was done with the Literature forum, I find this idea very intriguing. I can see where this would work pretty well.

 

TK, in which case, wouldnt it just be easier to make it a private forum? Rather than a public board where people can look, but cant add their thoughts.
Additionally, a private board will allow the mods to keep their opinions in a private setting, as many dont seem to want to have public differences of opinon.

Salty, I'm not really aware of the situation with Lit...I dont go there. Do they do the same sort of thing?

If my idea ripped off the the Lit situation, my apologies.

Either way, rather than making it a Lit thing, perhaps it use should be extended.

 

The Lit thing was basically "senior" members of the Lit board get into a special private board where they discussed Lit changes. I coulda gotten in according to the rules, but sine I'm only a lurker in Lit now, I didn't feel I had any right to be there so I didn't bother. I couldn't tell you what they tossed around.

¤Night

 

Good point, Darth- makes more sense.

 

So the Lit thing was more like the AC?

I guess thats different to my idea then.

 

Would it only be the person that came up with the idea and the Mods, or would other non-Mod users be allowed at all?

 

My thoughts are that its just the member with the idea.

The point of this is that only that member is qualified to really discuss the idea. As such, any other members arent really necessary.

If you want other members, then 'co-authors', or maybe ACers can be invited in.

But primarily, the board will be there for the inventor to discuss with the administration. Other members really wouldnt know as much as and therefore wouldnt really be helpful.

 

Sounds to me like another way to convolute and already overly-convoluted process.

Once you've said you bit here in Comms, if it's a good idea we'll discuss it in Mod Squad. There's no need for private forums for the proponents to pitch and defend their idea's. We know where you stand and it should be clear when if/when it goes to Mod Squad.

IMHO, the AC already bogs things down when we take idea's in there. Adding this to the mix would make the process painful.

 

We basically to decided to take a look at the forum and see how we were doing. We started with a sticky thread in the main forum, and got a lot of responses, but also a lot of mixed responses. For example, some people were for the return of polls, some people were against them. So what we did was create a small private board simply so people could vote on policy.

We let people vote on how long they wanted spoilers to remain spoilers, whether polls should be on or not, what people thought of off-topic threads, etc. The requirements to get in were that you had to have at least 100 posts total, of which 50 had to be in Literature. We let in over eighty users, a fairly wide swath of the forums regulars.

We?re now starting to wind the experiment down. A tentative resolutions thread has been posted in the forum we created, and will eventually be reposted into the Literature forum. We have a new FAQ on the way, and slightly revised spoiler policy. We?re going to be tougher on off-topic threads. We?re allowing people to have ?I hate 10,000 posts? threads, but no other post parties.

On the whole, I think that the experiment was a success, and that it can work in most of our small forums. I don?t think that it could work in Community ? that forum is just too big and diverse to handle in such a way.

 

IMHO, the AC already bogs things down when we take idea's in there. Adding this to the mix would make the process painful.

Ah, DA! Say it isn't so!

So you're against the idea of any official regular user involvement in policy changes?

JMA

 

No no no, JMA.

I said it slows things down, not that it was a bad thing.
We can't expect swift and speedy turnaround on new policy when we're running it past a public forum then 3 private forums!

At the moment, users are free to chime in on any issue they want here. By creating another private forum we're actually removing the populations ability to keep that commentary going.

With Dagsy's proposal or with the current system, the general populations input stops in Communications. I don't really know that stand to gain as much from this proposal as we stand to lose.

 

Once you've said you bit here in Comms, if it's a good idea we'll discuss it in Mod Squad. There's no need for private forums for the proponents to pitch and defend their idea's. We know where you stand and it should be clear when if/when it goes to Mod Squad.

I dont see it quite that way, DA.

An idea is discussed here. If the administration want to look at it more closely, they take it to the ModSquad. By the very nature of examining it more closely, you are going into areas that the inventor hasnt had a chance to discuss and defend.

The idea goes into the ModSquad, and comes under close scrutiny. Questions are raised, but noone in there knows the idea well enough to be able to answer these questions. A perfectly good idea can go to waste because the inventors views and thoughts arent fully known.

I agree that it makes the process a little more complex. But in the end, if you get a good idea thats better understood coming through, then whats the problem?

Not all good ideas are simple enough to judge easily.

 

If the proposal isn't clear enough at the end of it's Comms thread then it doesn't deserve to go into Mod Squad.

We're not talking about redefining the laws of physics here. We're talking about a messageboard.

 

"We're talking about a messageboard."

Can I ask why this is always thrown out as some sort of argument? I've seen countless mods and regular members say this, yet it continues to make little sense to me. If people enjoy being here and make an effort to come here and try to better this place through posting in Comms and PMing admins and such, then it's more than "just a messageboard."

I don't know. I just think saying that can be used to trivialize issues. In my eyes, it's nothing more than a copout.

Amazing.

 

Yes, the proposal should be clear by the time it gets to ModSquad. It should have passed all tests brought forward in Communications

But when placed under closer scrutiny, a perfectly good idea can be thrown out because the administration doesnt see all necessary aspects of it.

The thought that you guys will know all about an idea by the time it hits the ModSquad is silly.

Overall, its like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. A perfectly good idea could be wasted because you guys dont like some aspect, even though it might not be as bad as you first thought.

We might be talking about a messageboard, rather than something world-changing, but that doesnt mean that we should dismiss without giving it every opportunity to succeed.

EDIT: Even this idea...there are more aspects to this idea than you, or many others reading, can currently see. More applications, more complexities, more rewards. But if you were to discuss it without my input, chances are they wouldnt ever be heard.

EDIT2: Stupid Overtype mode.

EDIT3: DA, from earlier:
At the moment, users are free to chime in on any issue they want here. By creating another private forum we're actually removing the populations ability to keep that commentary going.

But this doesnt stop the Comms discussions. It can basically complement ModSquad discussions. Mods can discuss it, and then get clarification/further input from the inventor in the private forum. Noone is saying that it takes the place of Comms discussions.

 

If people enjoy being here and make an effort to come here and try to better this place through posting in Comms and PMing admins and such, then it's more than "just a messageboard."

We read messages, we post messages, we reply to messages. The JC is a messageboard.

 

AmazingB: It's a reminder that this is a simple messageboard, not a Government or corporation. Things should be done as simply as possible. We shouldn't take ourselves too seriously because in the end, this is just a bunch of fan boys and girls enjoying (or at least trying to enjoy)their hobby. It's not a cop out. It's a reality check

Dagsy: If any member of the administration isn't clear on some facet of a proposal, why can't we just PM the proponent with a question? Private, confidential, informative.

Simple.

 

PMs are very simple. You just cant get adequate discussion from a PM. You also cant get multiple people really getting into the discussion via PM.

Its overly simple.

 

I agree, Dagsy, that PMs can be a bit of a nuisance if you really want to discuss something with more than one person (ie: the Mods).

However, I don't see why discussion between the Mods and the originator of the idea can't take place in this forum. Sure, it would be public and other users may chime in with their opinions, but surely that wouldn't hurt. And even if they did, discussion between the Mods and the originator of the idea could still take place.

If the only problem with the idea is that Mods don't check this forum enough -- well, checking this forum or checking a different, private forum is one and the same, really.

And, semi-related, we now have a "Communications" reminder thread in the Mod Squad to assist Mods in discussion of key threads in here.

Personally speaking, I just don't think a new forum, for the purposes outlined in this thread, is completely necessary.

 

Ahhh, yes Epic. But dont members of the administration like to present a united front here? That couldnt really happen if the discussion is here and not in a private forum.

Additionally, there are uses other than simply discussion of ideas. I specifically hadnt brought them up, because it shows my point exactly...that you dont get the thorough examinations in Communications. Noone asked the right questions, and noone got answers about how this can be extended.

You want to see how this can be extended past simple discussion of ideas? Well, how about if the administration had issues with a member and wanted to discuss things with them? I'll give you an example that has been discussed recently.

The whole hacking incident....Ternian was accused of knowing how DP did it, etc. Scott banned Ternian, and the administration really havent had a say. Communication has gone on between the parties, but (correct me if I'm wrong), there really hasnt been a chance for many parties to have a group discussion. There has beena lot of emails. Some administration discussion, but no chance for Ternian, Scott, and the administration to chat.

Couldnt this idea be extended to this situation? Where the administration needed to discuss things with a member?

If it seems like the administration ganging up on the member, then the member can always choose to not turn up.

But the option is always there for the administration to have a chat with a member in private. Something that wouldnt otherwise have ben done.

I could go into more examples demonstrating its application, but the best examples are ones that I couldnt discuss here.

You see, I know the possibilities of this idea more than the mods that would have read this. And thats goes a fair way towards proving my point...if a discussion of an idea, or issue is taken into the modsquad, then it isnt going to be understood very well.

A simple private board or two could be quite useful.

 

It's a great idea. In terms of implementing it, it's all a matter of commitment. Obviously some people have more time or are more committed to message boards like the JC than others.

Dagsy is obviously committed to discussion as to how to improve the JC while the modsquad are less so. As a consequence, of course they are going to knock it on the head, it will just invite a bunch of whiners to require the mods to committ their time to debating a bunch of nonsense, with a few good ideas thrown in from time to time.

Once they start paying mods to moderate on a full time 24/7 basis, ideas like Dagsy's will work just fine.