An interesting theory about Mara in "Sacrifice"

So what if Allana comes to be in Jacen's hands again? What could/should/ or will happen is wide open. I don't think its a big stretch to see how a family could be ripped apart by someone in it committing a horrible crime. This is not a black and white issue unfortunatly. I understand what its like to lose an important character from the continuity( My hero, Gilad Pellaeon, is gone! ).

No one is defending Jacen(at least I'm not), its what Jacen has done to the Skywalker family that is at issue. Han and Leia have lost a second son, Luke has lost his wife, Jaina has lost a brother, Tenel Ka has lost a potential husband and father to Allana. Jacen's actions would be a devestating blow to any family just as Mara's death is huge to the Skywalkers and Solo's. I think Caedus's sacrifice was his family as a whole and Mara's death was unfortunatly a part of that progression. Her death wasn't meaningless for me, but it was part of Jacen's larger sacrifice.

 

I knew the moment I read Betrayl that someone from the Skywalker/Solo family was going to get killed and it turned out to be Mara. I'm sorry for those of you who liked her and didn't like that it happened, but the only advice I can give you is to do what I plan to do if one of the Big 3 gets killed in Invincible, STOP READING.

I never really read much of NJO and post-NJO books in the first place, as I find them to be generally appalling. Mara's useless death just cemented my determination not to read them. But your point is valid--still, it's an easy one to make and not something we should be going for. I simply ask--isn't it convenient for possible future post-ROTJ movies if the major EU characters start going out of the picture?

Maybe both Jaina AND Jacen will die. Horrible for Leia and Han--but wow we readers never saw THAT coming! We'll buy lots of books now!! And future post-ROTJ moview will have free rein...

 

We see it coming now that you've mentioned it.

 

The ramifications being that how do they put this Skywalker/Solo family back together? Leia's son killed Luke's wife!! Emotional ramifications is what I was talking about. And imagine if Jacen is allowed to live at the end of Invincible! How do you look someone in the eye who has killed a member of your family?

Also, to the poster who said they haven't read anything past NJO, how can you accuse Mara's eath of being cheap and meaningless when you haven't read it. I didn't find it cheap or meaningless. In fact, it was touching the way that Luke and Ben came together as a family after it. I thought it was very well handled.

I'm new to these boards, but I'm getting a sense that whenever a major character is killed people are just upset that that character died and accuse the writers and PTBs of being cheap and careless. Every death has always, at the very least, served a greater story purpose. Heck, I want Anakin Solo back because I think it could lead to some great twists and story stuff, but I accept that he died and never thought it was cheap or poorly handled.

 

I understand that, but if what your saying is that you think their all going to break up again I must disagree. I don't think Luke blames Han and Leia for what Jacen has done and I don't think they in turn blame him. If anything, they blame themselves.

Now if what your saying is that its going to be awkward between them all for awhile then yes, I'd say that goes without saying, but like I said, I saw this all coming the moment I read Betrayl.

 

Also, to the poster who said they haven't read anything past NJO, how can you accuse Mara's eath of being cheap and meaningless when you haven't read it. I didn't find it cheap or meaningless. In fact, it was touching the way that Luke and Ben came together as a family after it. I thought it was very well handled.

Or they could've gone out for smoothies or something and come together as a family that way. Really, is violent death really necessary for this to happen??

 

I still think of Mara's death pointless. Ben was starting to have suspicions about Jacen when he heard him and Luymina talking about their plans and mind rubbing ben. We don't know what ben would have done, stuck with Jacen and tried to bring him back, or stayed away from him. But I doubt he would have mindlessly stuck around doing Jacen's bidding. It seemed like a very cheap way to add drama to this series. I still don't understand how Luke and Mara were written to get so distant with their son. The way they were portrayed in the Hand of Thrawn Trilogy and NJO you thought they would avoid having someone else raise their kid like Han and Leia. It just seems like such a waste to build up Mara's character and then kill her off.

 

I have read Sacrifice and I found Mara Jade's death to be cheap and meaningless. In fact, Sacrifice is the last Del Rey Star Wars novel I will ever read. I took DeJade_Vu's advice and I stopped reading. I write my own and read fan fiction. I have found it to be more enlightening than having DR force us into an alternate world of Star Wars that is full of despair and zero hope and where characters are not written consistently throughout different book series.

There is no greater purpose for DR other than to keep selling books. Mara's "death" , as well as Anakin Solo and Chewie's, were a cheap gimmick to sell sell sell. And we bought. And we kept buying because it's Star Wars. We want more stories. But lately, the stories we're being told, don't resemble anything that I remember Star Wars being. Hint: SW was supposed to be about escape from the real world. Now we have death all around us. Oh, I'm not talking about SW. I'm speaking of the war we're in now in reality.

I don't accept that reality belongs in Star Wars. So I will no longer accept any more drabble that comes from the official pages of the next new SW novel. If I want more SW stories, I'll write my own or read the stories from true fans who care about these characters.

So if you, fanboyskywalker, want Anakin Solo back into Star Wars, write him back in! Or read one of several fan fictions in here that have stories where he didn't die. George Lucas gave us this galaxy to us fans. Use it and create it in your own way! To quote Vader, "There will be no one to stop us this time."


And for the record, they could have written Luke and Ben's coming together WHILE Mara was alive when it would have made more sense!

 

Owch, that's harsh. I think Carrie looks pretty good:

[image=http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/95/07/0000039507_20070504104210.jpg]

 

Pretty? And what does she look in the morning without that heavy makeup?

What are you saying, DeJade_Vu, that Mara is immortal? That the scores of books, comics and stories she's already featured in for over a decade and a half is not enough?

 

Violent death has been a part of Star Wars for a long, long time now. It's not like its new. Luke lost his Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, Kenobi, then later his friend Biggs Darklighter, then his father. His mother died in child birth. So yes, it sucks to be Luke, he's had by all standards a horrible life. Being the last hope for the galaxy isn't all its cracked up to be. Luke has been surrounded by death his whole life, I've never really viewed his story as a happy one. He has made the galaxy a better place, but at the cost of his own happiness. I think Luke's legacy is why Cade doesn't want a lot to do with being a hero in the Legacy comic series.

I really don't see the Skywalkers/Solo's coming together as a family if Jacen is redeemed. They were a tight nit family, but this has torn them apart in a far more significant way than Chewie or Anakin's death did. Jacen may have been the guy that screwed up everything. Or maybe they will redeem Jacen, go for smoothies, and Luke will say "Yeah, I know you killed Mara for the greater good Darth Caedus, but its all OK now cause your a good guy again" Of course that won't happen, will it?

 

Fanboyskywalker: I read the whole thing, right up till now, and I think the deaths have been very badly-done and very poorly handled. Anakin's was a mess, and ruined so many potentially brilliant plotlines. Mara's has yet to convince me.

 

I concur. Deaths have generally been very poorly written in Star Wars since the NJO. It's not that death in itself is naturally a bad thing, it is how it is handled and the repercussions for the characters and the plot.

I thought Anakin's death was quite pointless/not the best decision - we had the big impact of death already with Chewie's in Vector Prime. Did it really serve to bring home the fact that the 'bubble of invincibility' had gone, perhaps IMO, but the lost potential of Anakin IMO outweighed that by a lot. Especially with the direction they have taken with JINO/Jacen/Caedus.

Now to Mara's death - I read the spoiler and vowed not to touch Sacrifice with a ten foot pole. Again IMO, Mara's death doesn't do much. Yes it does make Caedus/JINO/Jacen seem to be evil enough to do anything and wants to make him a powerful villain, but I think that work has been undone by subsequent books (eg. Mando grunt being able to best JINO/Caedus/Jacen in Revelation). How can we be expected to take him seriously as a villain if he's written as so pathetic that a Mando grunt can kill him? [it's almost like saying random Rebel Alliance trooper could kill Palpantine - it is pseudo-comical]

We also have to weigh Mara's death against her potential as a character that is alive.

First and foremost of course, is more Skywalker heirs. We only have Ben. Mother Rell in COPL saw children. And there's nothing wrong with having a little Skywalker sister - after all if and when she gets married she'll probably take the name of her husband so technically they won't be named Skywalkers so we can still have Cade as the last Skywalker (by name not by blood).

Second, can Mara develop as an alive character - yes, we don't see Mara being a mother - there was so much she can develop that way. Especially with the mother angst they put her through in the NJO in Rebel Dream and Rebel Stand. IMO, there was good character development to be had there but it didn't eventuate.

There are of course numerous other reason for and against Mara's death, but I think these are the important ones from an in-universe perspective.

How can we believe that Jacen is a competent villain if a random Mando grunt has to be stopped from killing him? Yes, technically speaking he was 'tired', but really, should be really be written like that. I don't think that Palpantine was ever in a position like that was he? Looking back on it with hindsight, it seems even more pointless than before.

And I think that's the moral inversion and ambiguity that a certain section of fandom hates, and I mean really hates.

 

Maybe if the did it in the Legacy time line it would work...Force Ghost Luke, Leah and a very old Han...that would be funny the only non-force sensitive manages to out live the others lol....

 

For my own part, I don't hate it, but I do hate that Jacen's big "sacrifice" was just self-defense. Sorry, but that's not sacrifice, that shouldn't be how it works.

 

Okay, I agree with the whole "sacrifice" aspect being very confusing the way it was written and the point of it from Jacen's standpoint. Denning at least told us in Inferno that it gave Jacen greater Sith powers to have done it (a nice tie to Vader in ESB with the whole battle meditation chamber). But that should have been set up before. I never felt like there was a clear reason for Jacen killing someone he loved. So in that sense I see where your point is. With Anakin I disagree completely and also with Chewbacca I disagree 100% that it was done simply to sell books. When Chewie died I knew we were in for something special. It's why to this day I feel like no one is safe. A nice welcome change from the Bantam books.

That said, when it came down to the actual death of Mara in LOTF I thought it worked and the aftermath was well handled with the funeral and the way she came back as a ghost for Ben and Luke and helped Ben ID Jacen as her killer.

Come on, Mara had a nice long life and we got her marriage with Luke like we always wanted since the Thrawn trilogy! I like that we have a Luke/Ben team now.

"But lately, the stories we're being told, don't resemble anything that I remember Star Wars being. Hint: SW was supposed to be about escape from the real world. Now we have death all around us. Oh, I'm not talking about SW. I'm speaking of the war we're in now in reality."

Well, I have to say that SW was started as a reflection of the Vietnam War so it makes sense the current stuff is a reflection of the war on terrorism. Personally, I still feel like SW is an escape.

 

I've always felt that the "sacrifice" aspect was just a mental hurdle that Jacen had to jump. It never mattered WHO, just that he'd do it, and that he'd be able to rationalize it in such a way as to open himself more fully to the darkside.

Later, as his power grows, and he starts to believe that the "sacrifice" was actually the life of a common man and the love of all his friends and family, his powers grow even more. It isn't "sacrifice", it's his mental state of not being connected to another being and leaving the aspect of "Jacen" behind for his Darth persona that are the breakpoints.

It's his mental state that determines his reality, and as the story progresses from Mara's death he flips it around all sorts of ways. It doesn't matter that he's now dismissed it as self-defense, because at the time he felt it was a breakpoint, but the person who fought Mara in the cave isn't the one who talked to Shevu, at least in Jacen's mind. There's a clear change of self-identification, although at one point in his introspection he does start thinking of himself as Jacen, mainly when looking backwards at the things he had done, almost as if he's looking at someone else do them.

 

Death has always been a part of Star Wars. Here's a list of important characters that died in the movies:

Qui Gon
Maul
Dooku
Grievous
Shmi Skywalker
Mace
Yoda
Padme
Uncle Owen & Aunt Beru
Obi Wan
Tarkin
Biggs
Vader
Palpatine

 

I think you're not understanding the difference between death and pointless/meaningless death. Simply listing all the deaths that occurred in the movies doesn't prove/disprove anything, with regards to the ongoing debate.

 

How is Mace's death any different than Mara's. Both were a catalyst to push their respected Solo/Skywalker over the edge.

Anakin/Chewies deaths were plot catalysts just like Obi Wan/Padme ect dying.

I loved Anakins character but his death was no completely pointless. It got Luke out of his funk, messed up Tahiri in the head, pushed Jaina towards the darkside and put Jacen directly into a leadership position.

 

She's a realistic, attractive woman in her late fifties. If anything, Mara and her eternal 21 year oldness is creepy and weird. And Harrison has had nips and tucks, whereas Mark and Carrie haven't. Mark is still with his wife. Harrison is with someone younger than his own kids. I respect those kinds of ethics. Carrie seems to have given up on men. As soon as your 30 men wish you'd just kill yourself so they can move on to a teenager. Sad.

I know that, but so much of Sacrifice played like Mara was having a jealousy hissy fit. It didn't work

I really saw that as panic. She knew her mortal enemy and Jacen were trying to murder her CHILD. Plotting to. And they are adults and in power and so much stronger than Ben. If you KNEW someone like a senator and a general wanted to murder your 13 yr old, you wouldn't panic? She did save him, by dying, she made him choose, he cemented his future in the light. Doesn't anyone get that part? She did win. Ben came back.

No personal comments.

 

I'm probably late on the seen, but they did ROTS with Anakin married...

The only difference is now she ain't a secret, and pwnz with a lightsaber.