Anakin a Jedi master?

First of all, let me admit that I am *brand new* to the Expanded Universe, so this is probably a simplistic question that I should know the answer to

I was reading some of the more recent Star Wars: Republic comics, and Anakin is referred to as "Master" when he appears before the Jedi council. He also says, "I'm a Knight now, I don't have to have their permission" when he is queried about undertaking a mission that Obi-Wan and Master Koon advised him against. However, this is a clear disconnect with the events in Episode III.

Is this just a result of the comics being released before the movie, or does it have some other explaination?

 

"Master [name]" is used when addressing any Jedi; it's showing respect, not a title. People call Obi-Wan "Master Kenobi" in AotC when he is a knight.

 

Was it resolved whether Knights were allowed to take padawaans? kinda weird that obi wan was allowed to have a padawaan when he wasnt even a master.

 

Uh, there's nothing to suggest that Knights cannot take Padawans.

 

That's the thing...Anakin refers to himself saying, "I'm a Knight now..."

 

One of the main ways for a Jedi Knight to achieve masterhood is to train a padawan to knighthood. It wouldn't make much sense for that to happen if Knights couldn't take padawans.

 

YodaLives posted on 6/21/05 8:30pm

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That's the thing...Anakin refers to himself saying, "I'm a Knight now..."
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Yeah, because he was [i]just promoted[/i] from Padawan to Knight. He believes that he has more freedom and authority now, that's all.

 

For most Padawans, their 'Master' is in fact a Knight. In the PT era, one of the more usual standards for Masterhood is training a Padawan up to be a Jedi Knight. Once that happens, the Knight who was the trainer becomes a Master (I can't recall any instances offhand where that didn't happen).

However, it's not a criterion for Masterhood to train a Padawan, as evidenced by Anakin's expectations in Episode III, the case of Jorus C'Baoth and possibly Qui-Gon Jinn.

When a class of Younglings 'graduates' to Padawan level, they are paired up with Knights. If there aren't enough eligible and willing Knights, then sometimes the Youngling misses out and is shipped off as Obi-wan initially was. I suspect though that it's more common for them to wait a while, or be paired up with a willing Master instead.

EDIT : Must learn... to type... faster

 

It's been discussed before in this forum that to become a Jedi Master a Jedi Knight must first train a padawan to Knighthood. But according to the OS's entry on the Jedi Order, that may or may not be a required element. The entry merely says that to become a Jedi Master a Jedi needs to show exceptional devotion to, and skill in, the Force. Some Jedi Knights, such as Jorus C'boath, did manage to become Masters without training a padawan to Knighthood, so it seems this may also suggest that the training of a padawan to Knighthood isn't required.

 

Ok, I see what I missed now...

Anakin had been promoted from Padawan to Knight...but not yet to Master...in his case, Master was used solely as a term of respect.

 

Exactly Right. You see in AotC the Kaminoans refer to OB1 as "Master Jedi" which show the sign of respect and the acknowledgement to his rank as a knight. If he were a mater it would be "Jedi Master". Well thats what I think anyway

 

They do call him Jedi Master, though.

"May I present Lama Su, Prime Minister of Kamino. And this is Jedi Master..."
"Obi-Wan Kenobi."

 

Not Jedi master, they call him "Master Jedi" there as well

 

Not Jedi master, they call him "Master Jedi" there as well

Sorry, no. I just checked the seen where Obi-Wan meet's the Fetts. Taun We does, in fact, introduce him as Jedi Master. This tidbit is rather intresting because she greets him as Master Jedi and introduces him to Lama Su as such. Up until this seen the Kaminoans keep refering to him as Master Jedi and then suddenly she refers to him as Jedi Master.

 

Well, she thinks he's on the Council, so naturally he would be a Master (Taun We is stupid).

 

Sounds screwed up!

 

Don't forget that Obi-Wan was promoted from Padawan to Knight, and was able to train Anakin right afterward. He did not jump from Padawan to Master.

 

But it would seem that Obi-Wan was also promoted to Master well before Anakin completed his training.

 

Where ya gettin' that from? That implication isn't derived from the films, so what's the EU source that details Obi-Wan's passage to the rank of Master?

If you're taking this all from the Kaminoan's response to him, I think we have to seriously take that with a grain of salt. They're isolated from the galactic core to a serious degree, and apparently willing to accept anyone showing up in Jedi Robes as a representative of the Council. They're hardly knowledgeable about the Jedi Order.

 

I'm gonna take some exception to this clause, because it implies something that at least one EU source, Dark Rendezvous clearly suggests isn't the case. "Padawan" isn't a rank conferred en masse like the term "graduate", for example. An individual Master takes on another individual as their personal Padawan, irrespective of where they are in terms of a "class". I'm sure, for convenience, students who are not yet matched with a Knight/Master are sometimes called "padawans", but Padawan (in the sense that it means "Apprentice") is a whole different deal.

My understanding is that padawan=student (a general noun), whereas Padawan=Apprentice (a specific title). So, for instance, Scout is a padawan early in the book, but becomes Padawan Esterhazy-whatever-her-long-name-is, after she gets a Master.

Failing to achieve the rank of Padawan after a long period of time as a padawan learner has serious implications, not the least of which is dismissal from the Temple to the Agricultural Corps.

EDIT
Just to expand on this a little bit, using material from the OS: potential candidates are put into clans at a very early age. While in these clans they study in classes under the tutelage of single Masters. They leave these clans, and attain the rank of Padawan, only when a Master takes them. The implication of this is that not everyone in a clan becomes a Padawan.

 

The reason i used 'graduates' in quotation marks is cause it wasn't quite the right word. I was describing the state in which a class of Younglings reaches and can now be selected as Padawans. I had in mind the scene(s) in JA where Obi-wan and others are trying to make themselves look good for Qui-Gon to choose one of them for an a Padawan apprentice. Since it's been a while since i've read it, i couldn't remember if Obi-wan's shipment out of the Temple was because he wasn't chosen or because he'd mucked up in some manner.

 

Where ya gettin' that from? That implication isn't derived from the films, so what's the EU source that details Obi-Wan's passage to the rank of Master?

Episode 21 of the micro-series. Obi-Wan is already sitting on the Jedi Council there. The OS entry on the Jedi says only Jedi Masters can become members of the council, though we know that Ki-Adi-Mundi was a Jedi Knight when he first came to be on the council. However, Ki may have been a very special case. But the fact that Obi-Wan is on the council does point to his most likely having made Master before Anakin became a Knight.

 

Hmmm, quite so. I had forgotten that I'm inclined to believe the micro-series' version of events, as well, but I know there are those who say that it's completely at odds with, I assume, Jedi Trials. I haven't read that yet, so I wonder what those who have would contribute to the investigation of this question.

 

Don't discount the fact that there would have been a high attrition rate during the Clone War (Even of masters), as a result the rapid elevation of Knights to the Council during a time of war seems a logical conclusion (one of many) that could be drawn.

 

It makes sense because Saesee Tiin was always on the Council and was a master, despite the fact about him not ever taking a padawan. It always puzzled me whenever it came up about him being a master and stuff.