Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship

in rots shouldve mirrored han and lukes so you wouldve felt more of a betrayal between not only ankain and the jedi, but anakin and obi wan, i'm not sure it was really felt besides some quick dialogue fix ups between the two that lucas inserted for this very reason

 

It worked for me .

 

huh nope I disagree I thought the betrayl was great I thought their relationship was greatly played on screen.

 

totally, I felt that it was no longer a Master and Apprentice situation. more like Equals, anfd it's cool to see how Their traits rubbed off on each other. Anakin is more patient and ObiWan is the more reckless one. eg: Anakin, "I say Patience". this is a cool dynamic that makes the Turn work even better.

 

The classic Han/Luke relationship which is essentially an antagonistic friendship (I make fun of you, you insult me and that makes us buddies) was already clearly established with their banter during the Coruscant Chase sequence in AotC. What RotS did was take the classic SW relationship a bit further to the point where you didn't just see them as friends, but as true brothers. The bond created during some of the sillier moments of the opening space battle made the betrayal all the more impactfull.

 

The Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship is one of the most realistic, emotional and flat-out entertaining relationships in the saga to me; they're everything to each other. Best friends/Brothers/Father&Son/Rivals/Enemies/Buddies/Collegues etc etc.

I love how even after Vader "kills" Obi-Wan; he still cannot stop talking about him. "Obi-Wan's failure is complete" "Obi-Wan thaught you well" "The end of Kenobi" "Obi-Wan once thought as you did" etc.

- O_F

 

anyone with any real opinions on this?

 

I forgot my opinion is plastic! Just because we don't agree doesn't mean our opinions aren't real.

 

I saw several real opinions given to your message. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make their opinion any less real or valid.

I also disagree with your basic premise. I definitely think the relationship was established well and that it grew in nice ways from Episode II. I also know from reading the Making Of book that the moments that we see at the beginning that demonstrate the strength of their relationship were not thrown in by Lucas at the last minute as you seem to imply.

Not only does the opening sequence nicely develop their friendship and brotherhood, but Obi-Wan's reaction to Anakin's actions in the temple both in his conversation with Yoda and especially in his conversation with Padme, really highlight how badly this has hurt Obi-Wan.

And then there's Obi-Wan's anguished words to Anakin after the end of the fight on Mustaphar and the way that the nuances that Ewan gives to the character when he is asked about Anakin by Padme after the fight and as he pilots the ship away from Mustaphar.

So I definitely found the film communicated the profound sense of betrayal that Obi-Wan felt on the part of the Anakin. On a side note, I also thought the film did a great job of showing how Anakin in his confusion felt betrayed by Obi-Wan.

 

I'd call that baiting.

[image=http://www.psd267.wednet.edu/~kfranz/Science/WinterSnow/Graphics/thinicesign.JPG]

 

my bad, i'm sorry. anyone with any differing opinions on that?

 

It's a different dynamic. Luke and Han are more or less on equal footing.
They don't have the master/pupil relationship that Obi Wan and Anakin have.
Nor is there the jealousy/envy angle.
I think the were both done distinctly well.

 

Lucas knew from the get go that he wanted to make it clear that Obi-Wan and Anakin had become collegues and good friends by the beginning of Episode III. I think he suceeded quite well. They act like the same people from AOTC but their attitude and banter towards each other reflects their matured relationship. Hayden and Ewan's real life friendship shines through.

 

Why mirror their relationship with one that was built on a completely different premise? Han was fun to watch, but he certainly didn't display many traits of the Jedi, and Luke's relationship with him changed dramatically after he matured in the ways of the force ( and just in general for that matter ). I don't think we needed to see cutting remarks or just a general disrespect for each other from a couple of Jedi. Anakin didn't turn because he hated Obi-wan. He turned because he couldn't let go of Padme. That's the part that really hits home with me. They loved each other but had to become enemies instantaneously because of Anakin's decisions. Had he just been pompous and arrogant the entire time to Obi-wan we wouldn't have felt the loss from their friendship ending as much IMHO.

 

thechozn1 wrote:
I don't think we needed to see cutting remarks or just a general disrespect for each other from a couple of Jedi. Anakin didn't turn because he hated Obi-wan. He turned because he couldn't let go of Padme. That's the part that really hits home with me. They loved each other but had to become enemies instantaneously because of Anakin's decisions. Had he just been pompous and arrogant the entire time to Obi-wan we wouldn't have felt the loss from their friendship ending as much IMHO.

I agree, I thought this was represented rather well in ROTS. The film works as a multiple tragedy. We have the loss of the Jedi brought on partly through Anakin's actions, the loss of Padme, and the one we are talking about here, the loss of a wonderful friendship b/n Obi-Wan and Anakin. I really felt like they were more like brothers this time, and each looked to the other for strength, and as others have said, the traits of one rubbed off on the other and vice versa. Though, I'm not sure that Anakin felt they were equals, even in ROTS, though they were both now Jedi knights. I felt that with Obi-Wan being a master and council member, he was still one rung up the ladder ahead of Anakin,as far as Anakin was concerned, so there still must have been envy mixed up at that point. But that's only normal, well for mere mortals anyway. Wasn't it Gore Vidal who once said, "when a friend of mine succeeds in something a little part of me dies"? And then this hierarchical difference is exploited quite nicely, in the film, as it's Obi-Wan that asks Anakin, on behalf of the council, to spy on Palps. I saw that as a rift b/n the two that had begun to break them down, even before Anakin's participation in the Jedicide. That was the no turning back point for the two of them, and it had to be instant enemies from that point on. It all adds to the complexity that a close relationship inevitably has, and these two definitely had that, and how it broke down, amidst the turmoil of a war and a crumbling republic, was tragic and well portrayed. I feel the sadness of Anakin's betrayal of Obi-Wan because they were so close before all that.

 

Jedicide Nice

 

It really worked for me.Their relationship was a lot better than it was in Clones.

 

Yeah, they were colleagues now. There was real chemistry and not so much of a parent\child relationship

 

Yes and you really knew that Obi-Wan loved him and was proud of him more than you did in AOTC

 

Yeah, he kinda hit a nerve with the "Nice call, my young Padawan" stuff. Why don't you just call him a punk *****. But in ROTS there was brotherly love there.

 

That's one of the great things about this movies, the changing relationships between characters.

 

The relationship between Skywalker and Kenobi was great during the last two films. I believe we saw Skywalker save Kenobi's life three or four times in two movies. Their relationship was great, I believe. You can't really compare Anakin's and Obi-Wan's friendship with Luke and Han's because Han wasn't a Jedi.


We see all aspects of the Kenobi-Skywalker relationship such as Anakin admitting that Obi-Wan was like a father to him, and Obi-Wan feeling like they were brothers, the both of them working together as an unstoppable tandem which makes Old Ben and Luke's relationship more meaningful.

 

It's sort of like the change in the relationship between a parent and their child before and after they become an adult. You treat your grown up adult child differently than when they are a minor. Obi and Ani are working together as commrades now, not teacher and student so much, although obviously Obi still has some things he could teach Ani.

 

psst... plastic is real

 

Exactly, he completely screwed over his best friend for a girl - that's something that happens, far too often, in this world every day.

"Your friendship means everything to me" - Anakin

This relationship also adds to Hayden being in RotJ for me.

- O_F