PT Anakin and Padme: Are Fans too judgmental?

i think of it more like a Romeo and Juliet situation where the parents are telling the kids they can't see each other and they do it anyway. Anakin was 20, he was immature , and he thought he could get away with it. They probably figured they would resolve it down the line. IF EVERYONE REMEMBERS in ROTS when he reunited with Padme he said "I'm tired of all this deception, I DON'T CARE IF THEY KNOW WE'RE MARRIED."

 

Was that at me CA?

JR: true, and it was Padme who said: don't say things like that I like the deception and the secrets, I'm a politician remember?

bold mine

 

Nah, mate. To Jedi Rising.

 

The hiding had nothing to do with whether he loved her, it had to do with his wanting a relationship with her and the glory of being a Jedi
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exactly

 

well like i said, by his statement in ROTS, maybe it was actually Padme that was pushing him to not leave the Jedi order.

 

I think the movies make it rather obvious that it was Padmé who wanted Anakin to stay in the Order and not give up his Jedi career for her ("I will not let you give up your your future for me."). She was the one who first addresses the point of having to hide their relationship ("We'd be living a lie - one we couldn't keep even if we wanted to.") and cut him off ("Anakin, don't say things like that!") when he dared to question the secrecy ("I'm tired of all this deception. I don't care if they know we're married.").If you consider the extended dialogue that was cut, if becomes even more obvious:

Moreover, back in AOTC, there was also the scene after Padme had fallen out of the gunship where Anakin and Obi-Wan discussed the consequences of him going after her. Obi-Wan said he'd be expelled from the Jedi-Order and Anakin instantly replied: "I don't care!". Anakin only agreed to face Dooku when Obi-Wan got him to think what Padmé would do if she were in his position. Then there is the post-nighmare scene where Padmé was extremely concerned about the consequences of the child ("Anakin, this baby will change our lives. I doubt the Queen will continue to allow me to serve in the Senate, and if the Council discovers you are the father, you will be expelled from the Jedi Order!"), whereas Anakin was a lot more relaxed in that regard.

I definitely don't think it was Anakin who wanted to remain a Jedi at all costs. It was Padmé who didn't want him to sacrifice a big part of his life for her. And consider: Anakin is a GFFA popstar, he is the Republic's "poster boy" (to quote Obi-Wan), so there must be plenty of madly-in-love young fangirls who'd stalk Padmé to death in case they'd find out Anakin is married to her and - to be more serious again - I think Padmé would get into political troubles if it came out that she "stole" the "Chosen One" and an important fighter for the new mega-war.

 

Anakin didn't want to betray any of his conflicting loyalties. His father figures in Kenobi and Palpatine, his oath to the Jedi order, his love for his wife... Scandal would have destroyed (or at least damaged) Padme's career, it would have damaged the Jedi order, it would have lessened Kenobi's opinion of him, distanced him from Palpatine.

He's putting all those people before him. Putting all their interests before his. He truly loves his friends and his wife. It's a pity that none of them were any good for him.

 

life is tough and complicated all the way around. Star Wars is no different. It's been addressed before that Kenobi knew something was going on with Anakin and Padme and chose not to confront them.

 

Cogent observations there.

Some people like to exaggerate and heap all the blame on a single character or idea.

This leads to an extremely trivial reading of the films -- and likely stems from a trivial connection to, or trivial conception of, said films.

 

I think that Anakin did love Padme up until he turned to the dark side, at which point his mind was twisted in a number of ways, included warping his love for her purely into obsession and possessiveness.

(I'm not trying to say that Anakin shouldn't be held accountable for his actions after his fall - he wasn't stupid, he knew turning to the dark side would involve doing terrible things and chose to do it anyway - just that his mindset after the scene in Palpatine's office was not necessarily the same mindset he'd previously had).

Before that, his love for her was slightly unhealthy, but he did love her. He followed her lead with regards to their relationship in AotC, acquiescing to her in the fireplace scene when she said it would be better for them not to have a relationship. Even when his possessiveness issues did come to the fore in the Clovis arc, he seemed to understand why his actions were wrong and didn't fly into a rage or try to force Padme to change her mind when she said they should stop seeing each other. So, no, I don't think his choking of her on Mustafar was indicative of their relationship dynamic as a whole prior to his fall to the dark side. (Which still doesn't absolve him of what he did to her, of course).

I also agree that his hiding of the relationship wasn't (or at least mostly wasn't) due to him wanting the glory of being a Jedi. My impression in AotC is that he was willing to give it up to be with her but that she didn't like the idea. In the RotS novel, he expresses his desire to stop hiding and be with her openly, and she again tells him he has a duty to the Jedi. He enjoyed being a Jedi, but I don't think he was insistent on being able to have his cake and eat it too - and I think part of the reason he did want to stay with the Order was because he genuinely felt like it was his calling/his responsibility to help people, not the "glory."

 

skygawker That's my take on it too. He did love her -- rather selfishly and childishly, and somewhat transferring his mother-yearning onto her; but we all do that, there's no perfectly healthy, issues-free romantic relationship.

 

Yeah, I don't judge Padme for not viewing Anakin as creepy in AotC. I mean, he was kinda creepy, but it was awkward-teenage-boy-who-spent-the-last-ten-years-with-an-emotionally-repressive-monastic-order creepy, not scary creepy; he wasn't aggressive about his crush, and he listened when she said no.

As for the Tusken slaughter thing...I can't judge her for not knowing the best way to deal with that. That's a hell of a thing to have to react to, and I don't think some denial of the wrongness of what had just happened makes her a bad person, just a human one. And for all she knew, staying with him would help his emotional balance so that he was less likely to do something like that again.

 

Delete please!.

 

AOTC is where most of the issues I have with the relationship started. But I don't blame Padme and I don't blame Anakin. I blame George and his number two pencil and yellow writing pad.

And Anakin was so possessive love couldn't breathe. He smothered it. The best could be said about their relationship is that it was toxic.

 

I feel that shows Padmè doesn't politics as power but a medium help to people. Which can make her look naive even if she's not. Something TCW fails epically in showing. ...I do agree that can be self-righteous, due to her strong mind. I always loved Sola telling her in the AOTC Book: "You believe the Senate won't function a day without you." Sums up some of her issues very well I think.

I've been critical of the TCW did with them. The whole black/white angle did not fit the period in general IMO.

 

That is very interesting and rings very true for me. I think it's also partly behind why she fell for Anakin. The "issues" and touch of narcissism/selfishness in their relationship weren't all on his side. The more vulnerability and human trainwreck-ness he shows, the more transfixed and drawn into his orbit she seems to become. Of course, there were other things about him that attracted her, as Cryogenic has pointed out, and I am absolutely not intending to cast doubt on the fact that they really were in love, but you can see some classic fix-the-boy mentality there.

 

I wouldn't call it fix but rather guide. I've always felt that Padmè played a key role in Anakin obtaining the certain level of maturity he displays in ROTS among other things... I get the sense that she was willing to neglect her her own needs by putting her husband's first which has disastrous consequences because she needs Anakin as much as he needs help in ROTS. Padmè cannot longer be strong enough for both of them as she may have been throughout their marriage.

 

If TPM came out in 1977 AOTC in 1980 and ROTS in a 1983, the kids who saw them would hate ANH in 1999, ESB in 2002 and ROTJ in 2005, they would complain about stupid stuff that was in the older trilogy, they were just too young to notice. The true test of the PT vs OT comes from virgin viewing and virgin viewing only. Get any child who isnt tainted by their parents let them watch TPM and ANH see what the kid naturally likes without being bullied, the answers will surprise many OT fiends.

 

It's pretty difficult to say how the respective trilogies would've been received if they'd been released in reverse order. The PT is in part written to gel with the existing story of the OT and if the OT had been written to follow the PT, they would have been completely different movies. ANH in particular, I would say, would have been almost unrecognisable.

 

My thoughts are that they did love each other BUT between Padme's political training, Anakin's abandonment issues and Palpatine being an evil Sith Lord Padme and Anakin were doomed to have problems.

One reason I think Anakin went off the deep end is he has a Force Vision of his pregnant wife dying in childbirth and he doesn't know the fate of the child. As far as we can tell Padme doesn't say that she'll see medical droid or assure him that things were progressing well. Back on topic Anakin is trying to wrap his mind around losing his wife and possibly his unborn child. Now if the child survives he will have to decide what role he will have in the child's life or if he will at all. If he can raise the child then would the Clone Wars be over? Will the Jedi Council let him and his child be or will they insist on separating him from his child? He suddenly has a lot of questions and fears

For a bit I thought it was worth noting that he trade mark kill as Vader was the Force Choke but after seeing him do it a few times in the Clone Wars has made me think a little more about it. However I remember reading or hearing somewhere that as Vader Anakin would do things just so he could hate himself more. As far as we know he tortured himself with the memory of choking Padme; sort of imposing her image as he strangled his victim.

 

I watched the PT when I was pretty young before I saw the OT. I like it.

Whatever that says, I don't know.

 

This is absolutely true, and the part I like least about the development of their relationship. They really should have made the character much more confident and less desperate. More like the Episode 1 Obi-Wan. (In fact, IIRC, there were little hints in the book that Padme may have had herself a bit of a crush on Obi-Wan during E1, which I think makes quite a bit of sense)

This part I disagree with. I can understand a boyhood crush staying with someone who isn't having any other romantic interactions with females through adolescence. It isn't like he picked up and went to college and forgot about his high school girlfriend like every other guy does. His feelings for Padme, while being mostly an infatuation at first, predate the time in his life when everyone around him told him he wasn't allowed to have feelings for women. So that one stuck for years and years.