Anakin at end of ROTJ

This whole "only the movies are canon" bores me. Please see the official canon list from Lucas Licensing:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database

I do, however, believe that it is up to everyone to decide what their idea of canon is, so I respect your opinion on that matter.

I believe he was speaking about the concentration/Jedi mojo thing, not the Shaman of the Whills.

 

Those are not criticisms of the argument.

I never said that, that was TLJ.

There are only two options here.
Option #1: The Shaman is in the novelization.
Option #2: The Shaman is not in the novelization.

Neither option involves me misreading your post. Your post said it was in the novel. It seems like you're saying that if you're wrong about that, then I "misread" your post.

By the way, it's not actually in the novel.

 

Arawn, please take the time to read the posts more carefully. I shall explain it only once. You're consistently ignoring the criticisms of your theory, choosing instead to focus on tangental issues such as the maths of Jedi numbers and whether the Jedi skills throughout the clone wars are enough to discredit Han's disbelief. I have posted those questions in an attempt to focus you on the issues. They do need answering, otherwise this is all just a particularly bad theory.

So you disagree with him? What's your explanation for QuiGon's 10 year absence then?

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you Arawn? And is English your first language?

I ask because you're missing crucial words here, specifically the 'or'. So... let's recap, either you've misread my post and think I'm talking about the TPM novelisation and the lack of mojo on display or you need to speak to jedimasterbac - who says that the shaman is actually in the novel.

And it turns out you do need to speak to jedimasterbac. I haven't read the novel you see, and I'm now getting conflicting accounts about what is and what is not mentioned. Which one of you is right?

 

I assumed your post meant that the Shaman was in the novel. It turns out, according to the above, that I was right. So I didn't misread your post.

Let's revisit the sequence of events, shall we?
YOU: It is in the novel.
ME: It is not in the novel.
YOU: Either you are misreading my post, OR you need to talk to jedimasterbac.

Therefore, since I did not misread your post, I need to talk to jedimasterbac.

Why is this? Has jedimasterbac used some kind of unknown mystical power and caused previously nonexistent references to the Shaman to appear in my copy of the novel while I was distracted?

 

Seriously?

 

Firstly, I was wrong. It is not in the novel. Second, you two are like children. You're debating about words in a sentence. If you feel that someone is misreading something in your post, don't start asking them how old they are and whether or not English is their second language. That's just rude. If you want to make rude comments like that, do it via PM rather than clogging up this thread with an English lesson.

 

Let me ask this:

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that Anakin's physical form disappeared and Luke burned just the armor ( and whatever other mechanical remnants ).

Could we call the material being burned "Anakin"?

 

I don't follow your question. How could we call a costume a person?

 

So you agree that it would not make sense to call the empty Vader armor "Anakin"?

 

Yes, because it's a piece of metal, not a person.

 

In the commentary for The Phantom Menace, Lucas says that it's Anakin on the funeral pyre in ROTJ just like Qui-Gon.

 

Lucas constantly contradicts himself that it's almost mind numbing. This situation is one of many in Star Wars where its up to the interpretation of the viewers. My personal interpretation is that Anakin disappeared on the shuttle on the way to Endor because he did not know the ability and was forced to wait until Obi-Wan and Yoda brought him into the ghostly realm.

 

But wouldn't he have had to know the ability to disappear?

 

Officially, no he would not have. The stupid explanation given by the official site is that he learned the secret as he died through compassion and selflessness, though this makes absolutely no sense. However, in my opinion, he was essentially 'ripped' from the realm of the living into the realm of the ghosts by Obi-Wan and Yoda.

 

I agree because selflessness cannot be an entirely new thing among the Jedi. Anakin even says "the Jedi are selfless" in the Opera Scene. So selflessness and compassion alone cannot be the only factors in Qui-Gon's discovery.

 

Indeed. I've actually written Fan Fiction in regards to this. Granted, it's not official and most people just spit in the eyes of fan fiction, but it is a pretty cool topic to dive into nonetheless.

 

Well you have to know how and complete selflessness is the criteria for it to be acheived. According to the OS, and Pablo Hidalgo, Yoda and Obi-Wan assisted Anakin, as bac said. However the criteria of selflessness was still achieved.

 

IMO the "compassion and selflessness" angle is overstated because of a common misinterpretation of what Qui-Gon says in the script. At first glance, it might seem as if Qui-Gon is lecturing Yoda about the merits of compassion vs. greed. Which would be unnecessary and inappropriate. In context, Qui-Gon is explaining why the Sith cannot ghost.

 

I concede that the rough draft of ROTJ implies that Anakin did not need to learn the skill before dying, since Obi-Wan and Yoda will "save him before he becomes one with the Force".
This interpretation also fits with what is shown in the film.

However, if the intercession is at the moment of death, the distinction may not even be relevant.
I still think that Qui-Gon must have had some knowledge of it beforehand. I hope the cancellation of the Plagueis book does not somehow imply otherwise.

 

I Heard that too from the Audio commentary. I agree though,