PT "Anakin became evil too quickly"

It was partially because of Padme, but it was more about wanting power early on.

Or just kill them now and not later. Taking them hostage doesn't make sense since his job is to kill the children and not hesitate, which taking them hostage would entail. Not to mention confirming that he killed children is what sends Padme down on her spiral. She doesn't believe that he did it, but once he starts ranting about overthrowing Palpatine, she realizes that Obi-wan was telling the truth.

 

Palpatine could have told him to capture the children instead of killing them because he still wasn't ready for mass murder of children. Palpatine should have corrupted him more gradually, making him do stuff gradually more and more evil, instead of going right to the deep end of evil.The problem most people have with that part of the movie is that Anakin change to utter evil is too radical. He was never a saint, maybe not a good person, even, but he still tried to do the right thing (from his point of view) until he helped kill Windu, and then BAMF! child killer!. He cuts Windu's hand, and then he's willing to do anything Palpatine says, no matter how evil.

And yes, I know he killed Tusken children before, but he was unhinged due to grief and hate at that point. He killed the younglings coldly, without hate or rage.

 

It was not Padme who is causing Anakin to turn the dark side.
It is actually Anakin love for Padme that keeps him to the light side ; and what saves Anakin is that he has children with Padme.
Otherwise,if Anakin would not have been in love with Padme,Palpatine could have turned Anakin faster to the dark side.
Why you think Jedi council put a very young Anakin to guard Padme,leaving them alone?
Because they have seen Anakin lust for power and arrogance,together with Anakin desire to become greatest Jedi ever.
And Yoda is taking this decision,being sure Anakin will fall in love with Padme.
And Padme was a very strong supporter of democracy and of the Jedi order.
Because Yoda have seen the future of Anakin "clouded".
Anakin do not become evil that fast,remember his views,he is supporting a dictatorship ,when he is talking to Padme.
And Anakin have killed women and children before,when his mother died.
Anakin just use his so called "love" for Padme to get 2nd in power,after Sidious.
Anakin just wanted to be first in power,this is why Palpatine can turn Anakin to the dark side.
If Anakin loves Padme,how is possible that he tries to kill her?
Or how is possible that Anakin do not want to influence Palpatine,at Padme's request?
Padme is asking Anakin,who now is most closed to Palpatine,to stop fighting and try to solve
things through diplomacy.
Anakin replies:
"Make a motion in the Senate, where that kind of a request belongs"
And before,he blames Padme of being a separatist.
So,Anakin was gradually falling to the dark side.
Obi Wan might sound harsh,but he is actually right,
when he tells Anakin ,on Mustafar that Anakin lust for power and anger,
made him loose Padme.

 

Yeah. Exactly. No need to blame Padme, the victim, for what Anakin did. Anakin was spiraling out of control emotionally and psychologically, and Palpatine took advantage of that.

 

Weather people like it or not, i think PT Anakin was intentionally written as someone who is mentally unstable.

 

I like PT Anakin.

 

Yup...my thoughts pretty much. And why I think this undermines what the end of ROTJ is all about. Because what this essentially says is; Luke didn't do what Anakin did because he's a better person - ie it was in his nature to resist the darkside, whereas it was in Anakin's nature to succumb. In ROTJ the epiphany that Luke has is that, he is just like his father - that it isn't in the nature of a person that they are evil but that we are all capable of it. To exemplify that message Anakin should have been shown to be much more like Luke, but he is instead portrayed as being primed to turn.....

 

Sith Lords were chosen very carefully the ones who should continue
the Sith heritage.
Sidious is seeing the lust for power of Anakin,this is why he takes
Anakin under his guidance.
See what Anakin propose to his son,to turn to the dark side,
so "they" can rule the galaxy together as father and son.
I guess Anakin wanted to take decisions,to be also first in power,
not just listen to orders.
This is why he is so angered when he is not made a Jedi master.
Jedi masters were consulted when Jedi council was to take a decision.
They were having lots of power.
Anakin lust for power makes him turn to the dark side,gradually.
And this is made clear when Padme tells Anakin that they should run away,from politics,
and just live a life as a family,to raise their child.
"Come away with me ; help me raise our child ; leave everything behind while we still can".
What Anakin replies to Padme's ?

" Don't you see ? We don't have to run away anymore. I have brought peace to the republic.
I am more powerful than the chancellor. I can overthrow him. And together, you and I can rule the galaxy. Make things the way we want them to be."
So actually Anakin loves himself and the power more than he loves Padme or his children.

 

The problem is that Anakin seemed like a different person between TPM and AOTC/ROTS. Granted, at least 10-13 years passed, but Anakin in TPM didn't seem that prone to turn.

 

Yeah, he was a nine-year-old boy who hadn't had 13 years of Palpatine poisoning his mind and feeling resentful of the Jedi. Most nine-year-olds typically don't exhibit violent urges to slaughter entire villages because a few members hurt someone they cared about, or believe that an entire Temple worth of psychic monks with 'laser swords' deserve death and want to Force Choke their crush when she doesn't want to follow along.

 

Yep..that's another problem that I see. There's a massive disjoint between Anakin in TPM and Anakin in AOTC, such that his 'priming' appears to have occurred during the period between films... I'd have thought that if the intention is to show how that boy from TPM became Vader - a character he is primed to be by AOTC then..the process of that change might have been worth showing?

 

This has always been bogus to me. Anakin turned to the dark side to save his wife. He trusted Palpatine, and knew him his whole life.

On the other hand, Luke almost turned to the dark side (and would have, had he not seen his father's hand) after, what? Two hours of Palpatine and Vader working on him? He would have done this to save his friends, much like Anakin did to save his wife.

 

Yeah he trusted him sort of, but he also tells Padme that he can overthrown him so they could rule the galaxy together. So I never thought that it was only to save Padme, I think that he just wanted more (like he said it ) and that greed was also partially responsible for his fall.

 

I certainly agree with you. Some of the OT's most powerful moments were silent ones. When Luke looked at his mechanical hand and then looked at Vader's severed hand, his facial reaction conveyed that important theme you mentioned, that we are all capable of doing evil things when we let anger take over us.

TPM should have shown Anakin bond with Obi-Wan so we could see their friendship. Thus, in AOTC, we would have seen Anakin slowly change throughout the film as Palpatine plants more doubts, aggrandizement, and lies. Although I love the prequels, I think this was a missed opportunity.

 

Agreed.

As for silent moments. I agree that it was the one of the most powerful scenes in OT. In PT I always thought that this was very powerful, at least to me.

 

The Emperor and Vader tried to lure Anakin to give into his anger, hatred, etc. The audience felt that if Luke just gave in, he would reached the point of no return.

Anakin had that moment in AOTC but then was able to pull himself together afterwards. I think Anakin needed to kill Mace in nearly a blind rage to make us feel his turn was cemented.

 

I agree. That scene is rather powerful indeed. In fact, this scene is one of many reasons why ROTS is my joint favorite SW film alongside TESB.

 

Too many dark side users would be their undoing. It is one thing to have a few Inquisitors running around. It is another to have thirty Younglings turned Sith or Inquisitor. Palpatine removed the children because they were too indoctrinated in the Jedi Arts.

Which was the point. Anakin wasn't doing this because he was evil. He was doing it because he was afraid to lose his wife and thus his only shot at happiness. He made a deal with the devil. That's Faust. He's made his choice to serve Palpatine because he refused to believe in the alternative.

"In the original script, there were subtle inferences that there was some kind of relationship between Anakin and Palpatine. There was dialogue where Anakin said he thought Palpatine was a good Chancellor and not like other politicians, so it was obvious that he knew him. But when I saw the first cut of the movie, I realized that we needed to push that point harder. As it was, the inferences were a little bit too subtle. Although the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine doesn't really relate to this movie - it's more important to the next movie - I had to set that up because it was important in the overall arc of the story. So I wrote that little scene to show Palpatine's influence on Anakin and his role as a mentor."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

What we got in AOTC is that there had been influences, but as noted, they were subtle. The reason breakdown of Anakin into Vader was meant to be in ROTS. The scene with Palpatine and Anakin in Palp's office, the discussion about politicians between Anakin and Obi-wan and the picnic scene were all set ups for the main event.

 

You misunderstand me. When I said "Palpatine should have corrupted him more gradually, making him do stuff gradually more and more evil" I was speaking about Anakin, not about the younglings.

What I mean is that Palpatine could deceive Anakin into believing that they weren't going to kill the children, but keep them alive in order to turn them. That would be more palatable to Anakin than child murder. Then Palpatine could have Anakin do stuff gradually more and more evil, telling him to kill the children only when he had achieved complete corruption.

Palpatine didn't offer him any assurances. He told him "I don't know how to bring back the dead, but hey, if you join me maybe we may learn how to do it someday"... and that from a man who had tricked and lied to him every day since he was nine years old... Anakin really sold his soul cheap. He should have some doubt, offer some resistance...

 

Palpatine has corrupted Anakin for thirteen years. And now he has him at a point where the boy will do whatever it takes to get what he wants. It was a simple case of "them or Padme" and he chose Padme.

Palpatine never told him that he knew how to cheat death. He only said that one Sith Lord was capable of doing so, but that between the two of them, they could figure it out. What he tells Anakin is that if the Jedi kill him, any chance of learning the dark side of the Force will be lost to him. Dooku is dead, Ventress is too weak and Maul is nowhere to be found. All that is left is him. He has learned all there is to know about the Force and he is the only one who can and will teach him how to become as strong as he is, and then they can figure out the secret of Darth Plagueis. Anakin sells his soul based on hope.

 

Teenagers...

wut no.

 

The "lie" is "keeping secret that he's Sith", in this case.

RoTS novelization (Stover)

This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker, right now:
You don't remember putting away your lightsaber.
You don't remember moving from Palpatine's private office to his larger public one; you don't remember collapsing in the chair where you now sit, nor do you remember drinking water from the half-empty glass you find in your mechanical hand.
You remember only that the last man in the galaxy you still thought you could trust has been lying to you since the day you met.
And you're not even angry about it.
Only stunned.
"After all, Anakin, you are the last man who has a right to be angry at someone for keeping a secret. What else was I to do?"

Before that, in the middle of the fight, he said "I have the power to save the one you love. You must choose."

 

The original post made valid points but I still feel Anakin changed quickly, just a feeling. The executing of younglings was too much too fast. I wish he would have turned "dark" early in ROTS or late AOTC and built up to more heinous acts at the very end of the series

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Which is entirely consistent with his suggestion that they will learn the ability if they work together. Assuming that to be the case for the sake of argument, as Anakin's (only) potential mentor in the dark side he does have the power to make that outcome happen by lending his assistance to the mutual effort.

Keeping a secret isn't really a lie. Everyone has secrets on some level. All dialogue leaves out information. The standard generally used to convict Palpatine of lying, if taken to its logical extreme, makes everyone a liar.