Anakin had to become a Sith...

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by millenniumteacher, Dec 16, 2005.

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  1. millenniumteacher Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2005
    star 2
    When Obi Wan, Mace and Yoda spoke in ROTS Yoda stated that the profecy had been misread. Yes I believe it was. The jedi thought that Anakin was going to take out the Sith Master Sidious as a jedi, when in fact even Master Yoda couldn't do it. Anakin had to become a sith lord to fullfill the profecy. To kill the Sith Master took a Sith Lord apprentice. Therefore, he did fullfill his destiny, to both the sith and the jedi. Thoughts?
  2. jedi_drifter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2005
    star 1
    I thought about that, too. That Anakin would have to gain Sidious' trust to have a chance to take him by surprise and kill him. But Mace looked as though he could've killed Sidious, so I'm not sure about that.
  3. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    According to Obi-wan, having Anakin become a Sith was NOT part of the prophecy and his last words to Anakin are:

    You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness.

    Anakin fulfills the prophecy by killing Darth Sidious, not when he becomes a Sith himself.
  4. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    He did bring balance by eliminating the Old Jedi order and their archane ways and eliminating the Sith completely.

    When Anakin is finished, the slate is clean to begin anew and the Force is back in balance.
  5. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Killing the Jedi was NOT part of the prophecy because just like what Hurricane Katrina did to the state of New Orleans, it threw the Force further off balance.
  6. TheOutlawJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2004
    star 2
    It would also take away from Anakin having to make his own choices, and taking responsibilty for them. I dont think the Force would create such a mess as the Empire, the destuction of the Jedi, the death of innocent poeple, the enslavement of people and planets. The Jedi use the Force for good, the Sith use it for evil, its an abuse of power, and Anakin chose to save Palps, for his own greedy reasons.

    The Force doesnt create situations, people do. The Force gives visions of the future, but its still up to people on how they react to the visions and dreams they see. The future is always in motion, to sum it up, we create our future, with the choices we make everyday.
  7. jedi_jacks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 4
    i think anakin had a choice: (1) to be wiped out with the other jedi or if he was lucky to hide out (2) become sidious' apprentice. so i guess i agree, since being wiped out isnt much of a choice.
  8. Hypernova Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 2
    Anakins "destiny" was to destroy the Sith.

    He did that..............he just got a little sidetracked (about 20 years) on the way!

    LOL
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Anakin was supposed to bring balance, but it never said that he had to be a Jedi to do so. Nor does it say that he had to be a Sith either. Just that he would bring balance.
  10. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Anakin did bring balance. The prophecy didn't say which means he would take to do so. It was his destiny to be both a Jedi and a Sith; to know both sides of the Force to able to bring balance to it.
  11. PrinceEspaaValorum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 4
    Anakin was never a Sith. Darth Vader was the Sith. And Vader could have taken Sidious out in another possible reality--that of Vader's killing Kenobi, surviving intact, learning enough from Sidious to take him out. But no Sith killed Sidious: not Plagueis, not Maul, not Tyrannus, not Vader. Post-Mustafar Vader could not take out Sidious alone. He needed Luke. But when Luke demonstrated the power of true love by showing that he was ready to give his life for his father, Anakin decided to save his son, giving his own life out of true love to save his son. Thus, one need not be a Sith to destroy Sidious, nor did Anakin ever have to become a Sith to kill Sidious. In fact, Anakin could have killed Sidious after Sidious revealed his true identity. Mace could have killed Sidious. Anakin could have helped Mace or just stayed out of the way like he was supposed to.
  12. Elle-Wan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2004
    star 2
    When Obi-Wan said these things he was assuming that Anakin was going to be dead in about 5 minutes. The story wasn't over. Anakin did destroy the Sith and he did bring balance to the Force.
  13. Fat_Bird Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2005
    star 2
    I don't think that he HAD to become a Sith. All he had to do was kill Sidious and he didn't have to be a Sith to do that. But since he didn't do what was right (for his own selfish reasons), things got as bad as they could and it took him 20 years to do what he was supposed to do all along.
  14. Yodas_Got_Bed_Head Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2004
    star 2
    'Nuff said.
  15. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    Anakin had to become a Sith to fulfill the OT. :D The Lucas phophesy trumps the Jedi phophesy any day. :D
  16. SarlaccSurvivor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2005
    star 1
    I agree with previous posters that in order to bring balance to the Force, both the Sith and the Old Jedi Order had to be wiped out. Both organizations took a very narrow view of the Force and thus had big problems.

    So the only other way I see that Anakin could fulfill the prophecy is the way Neo fulfilled his prophecy. Basically, Sidious and his minions would have to kill all the Jedi but Anakin. Then Anakin (still a Jedi) and Sidious would fight, they would both have to die, and someone (Luke and/or Leia) would start a new Jedi Order with a wider view of the Force.
  17. TopSpeeD Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 2
    I think the prophecy should have filled the minute Palps reveales himself to Anakin and Anakin stands there with his saber open infront of him...just move it a little forward and BANG!PROPHECY FULLFILLED![face_dancing]
  18. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    But why would the prophecy require Anakin to destroy the Sith if he can't be a Jedi? He can't possibly bring balance to the Force if he doesn't have any Jedi training because any Sith lord that he'll encounter will instantly make sushi out of him with their lightsabers.
  19. DarthJiangWei Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1


    Here is description of the propechy from, WikiPedia. com:


    Around the time of the Jedi Civil War, the coming of the Sith'ari, an ancient Sith prophecy, became somewhat well known in Darth Revan's Sith Empire. The Sith'ari was said to be a perfect being who would rise to power and bring balance to the Force. According to prophecy, the Sith'ari would rise up and destroy the Sith, but in the process would return to lead the Sith and make them stronger than ever before. It is believed that the prophecy of the Sith Sith'ari and the prophecies of the Jedi Chosen One refer to the same individual; namely Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, who made the Sith stronger than ever by wiping out the Jedi Knights and assisting Darth Sidious in his rise to power, but then destroyed the Sith when he betrayed and killed Sidious, thus fulfilling the ancient prophecy of the Sith'ari.

    So as you can see, the Sith came up with the propechy not the Jedi.
  20. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    The prophecy never stated that Anakin CANNOT be trained as a Force user either and if he had stayed on Tatooine, the entire Jedi Order will still be destroyed and Darth Sidious will reign supreme over the galaxy. George Lucas stated in the OT SE commentary that Anakin fulfills the prophecy ONLY by killing Sidious but he did NOT state that killing the Jedi was part of the prophecy because it will throw the Force further into darkness.
  21. Fat_Bird Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2005
    star 2
    How can they possibly be the same thing? Darth Vader did not destroy them and THEN return to lead them and make them stronger than ever before. Sure, he killed Sidious but he most certainly never led them or made them more powerful after. Or did I miss all this?


    And I still don't think that the Jedi HAD to die. That just makes no sense. They weren't evil. They weren't bad. They were the good Force users. Why in the heck would the Force want its good servants wiped out? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater! And technically speaking... when Vader killed Sidious, Luke was a Jedi. So there was NEVER a time when both sides were completely wiped out. That puts a hole in the theory that the Force wanted to wipe the entire slate clean and start over, doesn't it? With free will, a person can NEVER be forced to do anything. He did not HAVE to fulfill the prophecy. And he certainly did not have to fulfill it in a specific manner (beyond killing Sidious). I simply believe that Anakin resisted doing what he was meant to do (destroy Sidious) and that all led to what happened. If he had killed him when he first found out that he was the Sith or had killed him with Mace, the Jedi would still be alive. And think about this, if the Jedi really did need to change their ways, as the Chosen One who killed the Sith, I bet Anakin could have brought about change in the Jedi Order. Do you really think they would have kicked him out for marrying Padme and fathering children after that? I think not.
  22. DarthJiangWei Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1
    But he did the destroy a Sith. Dooku. The propechy of the SIth'ari said that he'd destroy the Sith and then return to lead them. Dooku dies. He destroyed a Sith. The propehcy didnt say if Sith had to be all of them did it? Then he returns as Lord Vader to take the Sith to the top and finally, brings balance to the Force by killing SIdious.
  23. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Excellent topic!

    I too have wondered about the "Prophesy".


    Ultimately, Vader helped wipe them both out. First, he destroyed the dogmatic, narrow-minded Jedi. Then, after finally coming to his senses 20 years later, he crushed the power-hungry Sith.




    In order for there to truly be balance: all things considered must be equal.




    ***
    One could easily argue, that both orders had to be purged.


  24. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    It's not that The Force really wanted to kill off the Jedi... it's just that it HAD TO.

    Look at it this way, how Nature itself is ogverned. There's a process, a meaning, and a complex way everything works. Nature has something that goes off balance, it does anything it can put it back into balance.

    The Force in the movies isn't something that deals with morals or anything of the kind, it just does what it can to bring the galaxy back into balance, and in order for it to do that, Anakin must change.

    It makes more sense that Anakin has to become a sith to destroy one. That certainly gives him the upper hand than Yoda, who was only a Jedi and hadn't exactly experienced anything of the Sith mind.

    Just look how that turned out, the Jedi were almost completely wiped out!

    Palpatine was right about one thing. BTW, I'm doing this quote by memory so it might be a little off: "In order to understand The Force fully, one must study all its aspects..."

    Now, I think Palpatine was lying here. I don't think he ever studied about the Jedi. And that's why I think Anakin had the uperhand with Palpatine. In fact, Anakin was able to hide his feelings about his son from the Emperor. As strong, conniving, and powerful as the Emperor was, he couldn't dig into into Vader at the end of Return of the Jedi.

  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    They didn't have to die. Nature does dictate that if we do not adapt, we can die. That doesn't mean that the Force wanted them dead. It just meant that they needed to change, otherwise the Sith will just walk all over them as they did. The Sith adapted by cemmenting the rule of two, using patience which is a Jedi trait and by lurking in the shadows. The Jedi had to adapt by letting Luke and Leia grow up like they did. They had to adapt by balancing the Living Force with the Cosmic/Unifying Force. They had to see the Sith in a new light and deal with them in that regard. The Jedi were fighting the last war. They needed to fight this war. And they needed to trust that the Force would provide the solution. Anakin made some bad choices and in doing so, destroyed the Jedi as a by-product of those decisions.

    Anakin didn't need to be trained right away. They could've waited until he grew up and learned to let go of his mother naturally, thus allowing him to enter his training without clinging to the past. Where he can accept the future. Where he can adapt and let go. Luke did it, Anakin could've too. When Anakin kills Palpatine, he is neither a Jedi or a Sith. He's just the Chosen One. Both sides thought that he had to be one or the other. He didn't. He just needed to be trained in the ways of the Force. Not the Jedi Arts. Not the Sith Arts. But the Force Arts, for lack of a better term. He dies and is able to retain his identity as a Jedi, but he didn't have to be one. Just trained to use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
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