Anakin had to become a Sith...

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by millenniumteacher, Dec 16, 2005.

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  1. uwishuwereme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2005
    star 3
    Lord Gaydar? Wow how creative and funny be mature how old are you 12,im 15 and i think that's immature, and saying a$$ like that is against the TOS
  2. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    i should like to take this up again:
    i have been there, too. but it actually implies that there was no way the jedi could have stopped it from happening. and there was no way anakin could have stopped it from happening.
    it leaves very little space.
    and granted, free will might be a human concept. rather than something actually existing.
  3. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Lighten up darling. It is just a *edited* - profanity internet forum.

    That word isn't allowed. And stop the baiting...
  4. uwishuwereme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2005
    star 3
    No im not going to calm down this is a forum that shouldnt have people swearing this should be a G rated forum as corny as it sounds.


  5. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3


    Words shouldn't hurt you. You are big boy now.

    Tell you what, - if you suffer any severe psychological damage from my swearing, PM me and I will pay for your psychiatrist's bill.

    If you are in the UK don't worry. You can normally get in touch with one via your GP in a matter of weeks.

    Happy holidays.


    The Forums are PG rated, and "ass" is allowed as long as it's not a flame or bait. And stop it with the baiting.
  6. uwishuwereme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2005
    star 3
    I dont mean to be rood but you need to grow up. Swearing is against the board TOS anyways
  7. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Being immature is part of my charm!

    Shall we make a deal?

    You work on your spelling, and I will clean up my language.:)

    Deal?
  8. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    No deal. That's it for you for awhile.

    Let's get back to the discussion.
  9. uwishuwereme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2005
    star 3

    I see what you mean and it makes sense he had to turn to the darkside,and by killing all the jedi then eventually killing all the sith he did bring balance to the force. They could start all over again. Its very symbolic like old civilizations that basically implode and destroy themselves thats what I would compare this to.
  10. Darth-sennin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 3
    It is true that the Jedi did not need to be destroyed. But they did need to be reformed. Like the laws of nature dictate, the Jedi needed to evolve, or they would be destroyed by their changing and hostile enviroment. Had Qui-gon survived, and Anakin not turned to the darkside, perhaps the Jedi order could have been restructured under Qui-gon and Anakin's teachings. These teachings would move away from politics, dogmatism, and arrogance, and move toward the living force, trust of one's own insticts, and an embrace of love and compassion. The Jedi were unable to make these changes on their own, pushing the force out of balence, and thus "needed" to be destroyed. Remember that the Jedi believed in the prophecy before they even knew the Sith had returned. They felt the force was out of balance before the Sith emerged.
  11. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The Jedi were all about love and compassion. They never failed in that. We're not even sure if they were truly out of tune with the Living Force, since it's never said in the films. And don't go quoting Qui-gon as proof, because he's simply teaching Obi-wan, who still has a lot to learn. Even Lucas says that Qui-gon was wrong to take Anakin from Tatooine. He let his arrogance about Anakin's destiny blind him to the reality that the boy might not make it as a Jedi. The only real change that we see is that they let Luke and Leia be raised by families, which was only because they were to be hidden from the Sith. Yoda doesn't even want to train Luke, because he was too old and had attachments. Too set in his ways. Too full of anger and pride. Just like his father.


    The Force only went out of balance because the Sith pushed it out of balance, because Palpatine became Chancellor. Because evil gained an advantage over good, which disrupts the balance. Good and evil need to be on a push/pull scale. If one side goes up, then things are unbalanced. Simple physics and here it ties into metaphysics, for lack of a better term.
  12. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Sinister said: "He let his arrogance about Anakin's destiny blind him to the reality that the boy might not make it as a Jedi."
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    First of all, I do not believe that QGJ had one ounce of arrogance in him. He is the first ascended Jedi master to retain his identity in any way. That could not have happened had he been arrogant. He stood firmly for what he considered as the right thing to do. And he tells Anakin that he is not allowed to train him, so Anakin must watch him and be mindful. As he lay dying, on the threshold of joining with the living force, QGJ breathed his last words to Obi-Wan -- "He is the chosen one. You must train him!" Yoda and the council 'reluctantly' agree. In this context milleniumteacher is on to something -- QGJ might have 'seen' something that confirmed his suspicions about the boy. What he saw the council may have also seen -- and not liked.

    We know that Palps trains or seeks out apprentices skilled in the Jedi arts. When Anakin joined him, the Jedi were betrayed and decimated by one from within. Ironic, is it not, that the Sith were also defeated from within, and by the very same individual who almost destroyed the Jedi? This leads credence to the premise of this thread -- but not proof! And it also indicates that the living force intended to 'clean house' when Anakin Skywalker was brough into his galaxy 'far, far away.'

  13. thechozn1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    star 4
    You can be arrogant and selfless at the same time... just not in the same areas of life or responsibility. QGJ had a problem with wanting certain things his way, but they were always things that he believed were the will of the force. It's hard to blame him for wanting to make sure red tape didn't get in the way of the will of the force.
  14. DeadDooku Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2005
    star 2
    Anakin's destiny is as Obi Wan said "to destroy the Sith". In the beginning of ROTS Anakin kills Count Dooku something Yoda nor Obi Wan suceeded at. Anakin should have joined Mace and finished Sidious but he made a different choice
  15. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Yes, yes -- it is all about choices! Once choice often has profound implications. In the end, Anakin made one of his many life-choices. Killing the Emperor fulfilled his destiny. He had to make that choice himself and not have anyone else make it for him. He had to choose and then accept his own destiny.

  16. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Qui-gon's arrogance about Anakin doesn't prevent him from being able to retain his identity. But it is true, he was arrogant. Obi-wan calls him on this and this is why he gets mad at him, then apologizes later.

    Obi-wan: "The boy is dangerous. They all sense it, why can't you?"

    As Lucas says, Qui-gon made a mistake. The mistake was taking Anakin when he wasn't ready to begin the training. He made a dangerous decision, but it turns out to be right in the end, because Anakin the Chosen One and he does bring balance. Qui-gon just tried to ignore that Obi-wan and the Council were right to be weary of Anakin.

    Who says that the Force created Anakin? Lucas said that it could've been a Sith Lord who did it. As it is, Palpatine was already on his way to destroying the Jedi, long before Anakin showed up. He had a fool proof plan for getting it done. Converting Anakin just happened to have been a bonus, because Maul got himself killed. Anakin made huge mistakes because he was selfish. This was his choice. Not fate.
  17. egolden23 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    And I still don't think that the Jedi HAD to die. That just makes no sense. They weren't evil. They weren't bad. They were the good Force users. Why in the heck would the Force want its good servants wiped out? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater! And technically speaking... when Vader killed Sidious, Luke was a Jedi. So there was NEVER a time when both sides were completely wiped out. That puts a hole in the theory that the Force wanted to wipe the entire slate clean and start over, doesn't it? With free will, a person can NEVER be forced to do anything. He did not HAVE to fulfill the prophecy. And he certainly did not have to fulfill it in a specific manner (beyond killing Sidious). I simply believe that Anakin resisted doing what he was meant to do (destroy Sidious) and that all led to what happened. If he had killed him when he first found out that he was the Sith or had killed him with Mace, the Jedi would still be alive. And think about this, if the Jedi really did need to change their ways, as the Chosen One who killed the Sith, I bet Anakin could have brought about change in the Jedi Order. Do you really think they would have kicked him out for marrying Padme and fathering children after that? I think not.[/quote]
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well the whole issue then is, did he REALLY have free will? Or was he DESTINED(as is alluded to throughout the entire saga)to fulfill the prophesy anyway. I believe he was destined to fulfill the prophesy, and the Jedi were DESTINED to fall(which they did).

    I wish I could agree that if Anakin Killed Palpatine as soon as he found out about his Sith identity, the Jedi would have survived. I look at it as this: Since that did not happen there was no way it was going to happen, that alternate reality did not even exist, hence I get my theories on destiny Vs. Free will
  18. Fat_Bird Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2005
    star 2
    Everyone has free will. And there's no way that the Force only had ONE plan. If Anakin wouldn't have done what he was supposed to do, the Force would have found another way.
  19. thechozn1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    star 4
    This isn't the Wizard of Oz. The force isn't a guy behind the curtain pulling all the strings. Does it have a will? Yes, but it doesn't guide every single aspect of one's actions as Obi-wan said in ANH.

    Luke: "So it controls your actions?"

    Obi-wan: "Partially, but it also obeys your commands."


    Free will from the user if definitely involved
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Everyone has a destiny, but it's up to the individual to choose to follow it or not. Anakin choose to run from his destiny, by siding with Palpatine. He finally embraces it when he kills Sidious, which costs him his life in the process. Luke tries to run from his destiny when he refuses to go to Courscant to face his father. But when he arrives at Endor, he finds that Vader is there. He comes to realize that Obi-wan was right, he has to face his father. It is his destiny.

    Palpatine says that it's Luke's destiny to become a Sith. Obi-wan and Yoda say that it is Luke's destiny to become a Jedi, by facing Vader. Vader says that if Luke will not turn, then he will be destroyed. Luke also says that. In the end, Luke proves that Palpatine is wrong. Luke's destiny was as a Jedi, like his father before him. And Anakin proves that he is the Chosen One, by turning away from the Dark Side to save Luke. Proving that Palpatine was wrong and that Anakin could never do that.
  21. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Then why is balance restored when the Sith are destroyed??[face_thinking]
  22. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    ihave been seeing the flaw in the logic there, too. it actually implies that the dark side by destroying the sith is no longer assigned to the particlar people, but more or less everywhere, which it would be like in reality.

    sort of anyway, brain on holiday here. :D
  23. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Sinister said: "Who says that the Force created Anakin? Lucas said that it could've been a Sith Lord who did it."

    It matters not! The saga is filled with ironic twists:
    - Luke hates Vader for killing his father and then Ben, then Vader turns out to be Luke's father, whom Luke then must turn back at seeminly all costs
    - Luke and Leia meet up, appear to have a relationship that rivals Leia and Han, then Luke discovers he's 'kissed his sister.'
    - Anakin dreams of Padme's death and pulls out all the stops to prevent it, only to kill her himself
    - QGJ calls Anakin the chosen one, whom the Jedi believe will destroy the Sith (and thus must be a Jedi to do so)
    - Palps alludes to his former master, Darth Plagueis, learning to prolong and even create life. We are led to believe that Palps believes that Anakin is the product of such an endeavor, and that Palps confidently believes this will lead to Anakin's inevitable turn to the dark side.

    The force does not always play out as one divines (just ask Anakin!) The Oracle at Delphi's prophesies were seemingly double edged. One had to tred carefully in order to not misrepresent a particular prophesy.

    GL proclaims that he leaves it up to us to decide how Anakin was conceived. I personally find it more logical and sweetly ironic that the Sith created him. If the force had, then the implication is that the force wanted the current Jedi order decimated by misleading QGJ to have him trained and then allowing Anakin to advance to such a trusted and vulnerable position with the Supreme Chancellor. If the Sith created Anakin, then by the end of ROTJ free will, love, compassion all win out over greed, corruption and the grandest of evil plans. Better ending with the latter scenario -- at least from my sheltered point of view.
  24. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The Sith brought the Force out of balance, because they began to rule the galaxy. The Jedi don't do that. Not in the thousand years since the last Jedi/Sith war. Not even before the Sith came about. If the Jedi tried to rule the Republic, the Force would go out of balance. Good and evil have to be on equal terms. The Jedi and Sith use the Force directly. One uses it for knowledge and defense, in the service of the galaxy. The other uses it selflishly and for their own personal gain. The Jedi are symbiants to the Force. The Sith are a parasitic cancer.
  25. uwishuwereme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2005
    star 3

    When did Lucas say that Sith Lord could have created him I have never heard of Lucas say that please provide A link. We all know Lucas has said that midi's created Anakin,I've never heard him say a Sith lord could have.[face_peace]
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