Anakin isn't the Chosen One!!!!!!

I have been trying to prove this for a while. Here are my reasons:
The Chosen One is supposed to bring balence to the Force. Anakin didn't bring balence to the Force. He brought distruction to the Force and nearly destroyed all the Jedi Knights almost causing an extinction.
Luke is the Chosen because he restored the Jedi Knights and brought balence to the Force.

You probably think I'm crazy. If you don't have anything positive to say... then don't say anything!!!!

Anyone agree with my thread???

 

Lucas says otherwise.

"If you don't have anything positive to say... then don't say anything!!!!"

I said it with a smiley.

You might like my thread The Emperor believed that Luke was the "Chosen One", which tries to make a little more sense of the matter.

 

george said he was the chosen one .and me be jedi that is good post i have to give your props on that one i read it twice plus there has been a zillion post on this issue and have been some good ones thoe

 

You all make good points. The important thing to remember is that one of the attractive things about good storytelling is that the audience is allowed to make a variety of interpretations of a subject to better appreciate its form.

Still, Lucas did share his insight with the claim that Anakin is indeed the Chosen One.

But what exactly is a "Chosen One"? Well....it's just that: an individual that seems to have been approved a priori by a higher order to make a critical difference to the status quo. Qui Gon relays to the audience his defiant steadfastness that Anakin is indeed that fateful individual.

Whether this choice made by the will of the Force was appropriate or not is entirely up to interpretation. Additionally, the actual concept of a Chosen One does not preclude the notion that the will of the Force may have had an expectation of such circumstances that would permit direct offspring or even direct associates of this individual to also play a significant role in the manifestation of this oracle.

 

He brought distruction to the Force and nearly destroyed all the Jedi Knights almost causing an extinction.
Luke is the Chosen because he restored the Jedi Knights and brought balence to the Force.

Actually, he did bring balance to the Force by turning back to light side and killing Palpatine, the last remaining stronghold of the dark side.

In addition to read MBJ's thread, you might want to check out "Balance of the Force" in the Saga forum.

 

Anakin did bring balance to the Force, though not immediately as many would think. Luke assisted Anakin in restoring balance by bringing him back to the Light Side, thus allowing him to destroy Palpatine.

 

I think the meaning of "The Chosen One" was not clearly defined, or atleast even the Jedi Council didn't really what know that it entails during the heydays of the Republic.

But I take it that if anyone could be immensed in the darkside and could come back to goodness, is a very special albeit disturbing proposition and risk. Too perturbing for a Jedi (even to Yoda) to attempt or consider. ("forever it will ...your destiny" - as he says years later.

Anakin on the other hand even envisioned himself to "stop people from dying". No sensible Jedi could imagine concocting such ludicrous ability, except maybe someone who was as passionate (as I believe Anakin was).

Someone who even gives his own definition of compassion, than what has been taught to the Jedi.

His ability to make sense of it all at the end to destroy the most evil entity in the galaxy -The Emperor - but to also sacrifice himself was the ultimate and greatest love one could ever have for the sake of his son and for all.

That would be the Chosen One.Anakin.

IMO of course.

 

"The Chosen One is supposed to bring balence to the Force. Anakin didn't bring balence to the Force. He brought distruction to the Force and nearly destroyed all the Jedi Knights almost causing an extinction."

To me, that's what he was supposed to do. I think that, in order to bring balance to the force, you have to destroy both the sith and the jedi. To me, the force was being abused by the Jedi. They relied on it too much. I think Luke is pretty much the perfect Jedi. He uses both sides of the force when needed, but also uses technology such as blasters and all. Plus, and this is the clincher, he developed relationships with the common people. He didn't think he was better than them or looked down on them. The Jedi, with their arrogance, believed that they were doing just as the force wanted them to, and that the sith were the only ones keeping it out of balance. That's my own interpretation, anyway. We'd really need an Episode 7 to clear that up (whether or not a new Jedi Order is created).

But either way, the Jedi Order was arrogant and therefore rather corrupt, so it demanded that for the force to be brought back into balance, the Jedi must go down for it. It's a sacrifice, that sadly I think only Yoda was really aware of in the end.

But sorry, Anakin=Chosen One. I thought Luke was the Chosen One too, but then I remembered that Anakin ended up killing Palpatine. So Anakin, indeed, is the Chosen One.

Cometgreen

 

I agree MasterP, Anakin is not the Chosen One, in fact I'm not sure there is a Chosen ONe. This prophecy is never even mentioned in the OT, so obviously Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't believe it. Even Sidious and Vader dont mention it. The only thing said in the OT that would come close is when Vader says to Luke something to the effect that "together they can destroy the Emperor". Also Yoda and Emperor, speak about Luke being able to destroy Sidious or maybe another meaning Leia.

This indicates to me that Qui-Gon was mistaken, if anyone is the "Chosen ONe" it would be Luke as proven by what all the main characters say in the OT which is after many years of contemplation and reflection.

 

"Also Yoda and Emperor, speak about Luke being able to destroy Sidious or maybe another meaning Leia."

The point of there being another Skywalker is to help bring Vader back into the light. True, I think Yoda and Obiwan were hoping that Luke would simply destroy Vader and the Emperor, but there is something funny about Yoda. He warns about the dangers of the Emperor, yet he tells Luke that he must confront Vader. To me, this means that Yoda wanted Luke to confront Vader once more and pull him back into the light, that way Anakin would fulfill the prophecy and destroy the Emperor. Plus, the talk between Obiwan and Yoda kind of advances this. Obiwan wants Luke to be trained, but Yoda is too afraid that Luke will not be strong enough and will succumb to the dark side, therefore negating his purpose to redeem Anakin.

But it's open to many interpretations. As I said, it could just be seen as it originally was before the PT: They wanted Luke to destroy the Emperor and Vader.

Cometgreen

 

How about Luke and Anakin are both the chosen one after all Luke is biologically apart of Anakin.

 

I think Yoda and Obi-Wan gave up on Vader, and thought that it must have been wrong, and he wasn't the chosen one. (Or perhaps, that there wasn't a chosen one, or that there was, but the prophesy was wrong.) I don't believe they were trying to bring Vader back to the light; I think they wanted Luke to kill Vader, and go for the Emperor as well.

As the PT goes, when it comes to the chosen one it can't be anyone but Vader. When Qui is trying to convince the Jedi to take on Anakin, he mentions that Anakin has the highest amount of midi's he's ever seen and that it's possible that he was concieved by the force.

IMMEDIATLY after this, Mace asks if he is refering to the prophecy of the chosen one. Given that the prophecy hasn't been brought up in the coversation at any point in this scene previously, we can really only assume that Mace is refering to Qui's comment on Anakin being concieved by midis.

No one else can be the chosen one if the chosen one MUST be concieved by midi's; everyone but Anakin was concieved in the traditional fashion. Therefore, the Chosen one must be Anakin.

(Plus he does kill Palpatine, thus bringing balance to the force...)

 

"Additionally, the actual concept of a Chosen One does not preclude the notion that the will of the Force may have had an expectation of such circumstances that would permit direct offspring or even direct associates of this individual to also play a significant role in the manifestation of this oracle."

Absolutely. Not only do we not know the extent to which the Force intervened, but there's also no guarantee that we will ever be made privy to this in Ep.III.

Remember that Ep.III, while being the current and final film, occurs in the middle of the Saga. Too much information will spoil the OT for current fans, or make the events of said trilogy too pre-ordained to have any real tension.

Too much information would also detract from the ambuguity and "mysteriousness" of the Force and its workings as well. This is probably one of the prime reasons why the OT has lasted in the public memory for so long.

"Anakin did bring balance to the Force, though not immediately as many would think."

...or would have preferred.

"No sensible Jedi could imagine concocting such ludicrous ability, except maybe someone who was as passionate (as I believe Anakin was)."

Compared to who? We still don't know the extent of Anakin's powers, or what Palpatine has been telling him, or to what extent he's fortelling his own future.

"His ability to make sense of it all at the end to destroy the most evil entity in the galaxy -The Emperor - but to also sacrifice himself was the ultimate and greatest love one could ever have for the sake of his son and for all.

That would be the Chosen One.Anakin."

I would completely agree with that assessment.

"But either way, the Jedi Order was arrogant and therefore rather corrupt, so it demanded that for the force to be brought back into balance, the Jedi must go down for it. It's a sacrifice, that sadly I think only Yoda was really aware of in the end."

Although I understand this reasoning, I have trouble buying it. That would imply that the Force was in some way responsible for creating Sidious in the first place, since that's what it took to wipe out the Jedi order.

If you want a biblical context for this, consider God making Satan, who eventually was cast out and put in charge of Hell. Perhaps Sidious, like Satan, was the original "Chosen One", and failed, or tried to accomplish the Prophecy his way.

Maybe the "Chosen One" is a position that is progressively assigned to individuals as the need arises, kinda like "The Phantom", where each Phantom is replaced as the previous one is killed?

Okay, I'll stop now.

"This prophecy is never even mentioned in the OT"

But it was always part of Lucas' notes. He tried to focus simply on those aspects that were most important to the OT, because he never knew if he would be able to make the PT. This is why there are only passing references to the Emperor and the Clone Wars in ANH. Lucas wanted it to stand on its own, in case it turned out to be the only film made. After its success, Lucas started fleshing the other films even more (as well as radically redesigning previously written relationships, such as Luke now being related to Vader and Leia.)

"Also Yoda and Emperor, speak about Luke being able to destroy Sidious or maybe another meaning Leia."

They are speaking of the Prophecy indirectly. The references become more apparent after watching the PT.

"To me, this means that Yoda wanted Luke to confront Vader once more and pull him back into the light, that way Anakin would fulfill the prophecy and destroy the Emperor."

And it would also explain why Obi-wan commited suicide, instead of striking Vader down. Obi-wan would not dare kill the "Chosen One" because...

1) It would prevent the Prophecy from being fulfilled, and
2) Sidious would just replace Vader with another apprentice, and the Sith cycle would continue

Of course, this also works if Obi-wan, like Sidious and possibly Yoda, also believed that Luke, rather than Vader, w

 

In his destruction of the Jedi, he brought balance to the force. Think about it, before the war there are many Jedi, and 2 sith at any given time. In the great Jedi purge, almost all the Jedi were killed.

Now think, we are left with 2Jedi (Yoda and Ben), and 2 Sith (Palpy and Vader).

SEE?

Balance

 

" Now think, we are left with 2Jedi (Yoda and Ben), and 2 Sith (Palpy and Vader).

SEE?

Balance "

I hope you are kidding, because at the end of ROTJ, Luke remains as a Jedi, with no Sith for "balance". By this theory, the Force will still be looking to wipe him out, a la Final Destination.

This doesn't even consider Leia as a future potential Force user.

 

"Although I understand this reasoning, I have trouble buying it. That would imply that the Force was in some way responsible for creating Sidious in the first place, since that's what it took to wipe out the Jedi order."

That was kind of what I thought. I don't mean it in the Devil sense that he was the original Chosen One. I just mean that the force realized that it needed to "be cleansed", and so the wheels of destiny started churning. It made the new Dark Lord, Sidious, make his move for domination. While this process was under way, it created the Chosen One. It then eliminated all of the Jedi but two, who would be used to train Skywalker's son who would help Anakin fulfill the prophecy.

I believe that Obiwan, for perhaps the first time, heard the will of the force, like Qui-gon, on the Death Star. Thus, he looked at Luke, and realized what needed to be done. So he let himself die. I'm saying this because I don't think that the force directly controls a person, but as Qui-gon said, it can "tell" someone the will of the force. Therefore, the force is powerless to bring Vader to fulfill his prophecy, hence his son. His son is created to bring Vader back to the light and fulfill the prophecy, and then, perhaps, start a new Order that correctly teaches people how to use the force. Or, perhaps, have Luke die as the last jedi, letting the force "rest in peace".

Leia comes in as the catalyst of the very end. Just as Vader is unwilling to come back to the light, Luke is unwilling to fight Vader on the DSII. So Vader, either feeling Luke's thoughts or being told by the force, mentions Leia while Luke is hiding. Luke is provoked, and attacks Vader, and the rest is history. It's possible that, like Obiwan, Luke hears the will of the force after cutting off his hand, but I think it's simply that he discovers that he, like his father, is a Jedi.

I know, probably none of that makes sense. I really just made it up on the spot (and I have a headache and am incredibly tired to boot ), but just something to chew on, hopefully gently.

Sorry for making you read so much.

EDIT: "In the end, all involved parties, including Vader himself, were quite surprised at who actually killed Sidious and ended the Sith cycle."

I totally agree.

Cometgreen, who really just wants to say that the jedi needed to go down with the sith to bring balance

 

The dude from Kung Pow, with the crazy tongue, is the Chosen One. He brought balance by defeating the evil aliens from France.

 

I don't think there's anything left to say in this matter that hasn't been said before. But I'll reiterate.

Anakin is the chosen one.
As Sophita pointed out, he was conceived by the midis and accoarding to just-so placed dialogue, we know that being born of midis is a chosen one trait. Luke wasn't born of midis. He was born of someone born of midis.
Also, Luke doesn't destroy the Emperor. He was on his way to pretty blue heaven before Anakin interviened and destroyed the Emperor and the Sith.
Too many people think of balance in mathematical terms. Equal amounts on both sides. But as MBJ pointed out, this is faulty as Luke himself is still around.
Balance in this case means harmony. Balance within one's self.
Also, I don't see the Jedi being whiped out as a neccessary part in the prophecy. Just an unfortunate incident down the road. If it had to happen then Anakin falling was all destiny and it takes away greatly from the story I feel.
I feel that Anakin messed up and the prophecy was damn close to not being fullfilled until Luke was almost toasted and brought Anakin back just in the nick of time. The whole fate of the galaxy and the Force rests in that throne room scene. Will Anakin follow his destiny or not? This is his last chance.
Also, whether or not Anakin turned to the darkside, Palpatine was whiping the Jedi out anyway. It's just that if Anakin didn't fall the prophecy would have been fullfilled earlier. But instead we're given that 'one last shot' scene.
The Jedi aren't the one's abusing the Force. Listen to all the dialogue Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Yoda give about 'using' it. When they use it, they have to be at peace and working in harmony with it. Both parties serve each other. Mutually beneficial.
The Sith on the other hand are more like a leach. The suck on its power and their foul prescence clouds the very energy field of it, corrupting it. They use their aggresive feelings to tap into it's power and corrupt it to perform Sith lightning etc.
Thus, since they aren't bound by limitations, the dark side is in fact stronger as Lucas said because you are free to use it however you want. However, the darkside will wind up both corrupting you, and the Force itself.
Think of the Force as water. The Sith are oil. Put enopugh Sith into the Force and the whole thing is corrupted.
What Anakin did was remove the oil from the water. That the Jedi were all but whiped out was an unfortunate by-product. NOt neccessity.

 

"Also, I don't see the Jedi being whiped out as a neccessary part in the prophecy. Just an unfortunate incident down the road. If it had to happen then Anakin falling was all destiny and it takes away greatly from the story I feel."

I see what you mean. Anakin simply screwing up does bring a lot more drama into the overall saga. Maybe if, in EpIII, one of the characters says that Anakin's personal decisions have stopped him from fulfilling the prophecy, then I totally agree with you. It would leave you with a feeling of "Well, that's it. The **** has really hit the fan."

I just don't like giving the Jedi so much credit. I'm a sadistic bastard, aren't it?

Cometgreen

 

Anakin is the chosen one.

Nope, he isn't. There is no Chosen One. Thats just George throwing us some red-herring mythological bones. Make all those Campbell fans happy.

As Sophita pointed out, he was conceived by the midis and accoarding to just-so placed dialogue, we know that being born of midis is a chosen one trait. Luke wasn't born of midis. He was born of someone born of midis.

How do we know he was born of the midi's -- because his mother dreamed up a fantasy because she can't admit she had a quickie with a stranger or was raped (being a slave I'm sure it happened). Or because his midi-count is so high? Yoda's count is extrordinaryily high as well, does that make him conceived by midi's -- we don't know how much higher Anakin's ct is than Yoda's, they never say just that "it's even higher than Yoda's". There is also no proof that the "Chosen One" prophecy requires a conception of midi's thats pure speculation.

Also, Luke doesn't destroy the Emperor. He was on his way to pretty blue heaven before Anakin interviened and destroyed the Emperor and the Sith.
Too many people think of balance in mathematical terms. Equal amounts on both sides. But as MBJ pointed out, this is faulty as Luke himself is still around.
Balance in this case means harmony. Balance within one's self.

Well if it's harmony, then it is Luke that is the Chosen ONe, all that Anakin wrought was destruction and chaos. Luke is the one that brought about both harmony and balance. Obi-Wan and Yoda pass into the force for Luke not Vader. Vader kills the sith and himself for Luke. Luke also brings back the Jedi by being trained by both Obi-Wan and Yoda. Everyone is sacraficing for LUke not Vader, even Vader himself.

Also, I don't see the Jedi being whiped out as a neccessary part in the prophecy. Just an unfortunate incident down the road. If it had to happen then Anakin falling was all destiny and it takes away greatly from the story I feel.

I agree, and that's why I think the prophecy is more a coincindence than a true foreshadowing. Very similar to how prophecies made by Nostradomus are twisted and made to fit historical events in our world. HOwever if one believes in the Chosen ONe - bring balance to the force, then the jedi must be destroyed, but in that case perhaps Sidious is the chosen one, he seems to be weakening the Jedi even before Anakin is born. Anakin just doesn't fit.

I feel that Anakin messed up and the prophecy was damn close to not being fullfilled until Luke was almost toasted and brought Anakin back just in the nick of time. The whole fate of the galaxy and the Force rests in that throne room scene. Will Anakin follow his destiny or not? This is his last chance.

The Chosen One prophecy can't mess up, it's destiny, that's what a prophecy is. You rely to heavily on the fact that it was Anakin who killed Sidious. That fact is just a small piece of the puzzle that is required to bring balance to the force. It takes the jedi order being destroyed, it takes for Obi-Wan to sacrafice himself, it takes Obi-Wan to live long enough to bring Luke in as a Jedi, it takes Obi-Wan sacraficing himself and becoming a force-ghost to guide Obi-Wan, it takes Yoda training Luke, it takes Yoda passing on, etc.... Luke is the key to all these happenings, without him Anakin remains a sith, Obi-Wan lives and the force is unbalanced.

I think the "Chosen One" prophecy is a self-perpetuating destructive idea that takes hold in the mind of a very powerful boy.. Qui-Gon brings this theory to everyones attention and in so doing plants the seeds for the destruction of the Jedi and almost the galaxy. This idea is planted in Anakin, who then believing he's destined to save the galaxy becomes arrogant. Sidious buys into this theory (or probably just see's an opportunity to exploit Anakin's power) and starts seducing Anakin by nurturing the anger and his power hunger. The Jedi are suspicious and fearful of Anakin which only perpetuates his anger and so forth.

What happens to Anakin is des

 

Thanks OBcan for agreeing with me.
How can Ani be the chosen one if his destruction almost killed all Jedi Knights. How is that bringing balence to the Force!!!

 

George himself has said Anakin is the chosen one.

Luke would have been BBQ'd Skywalker has his FATHER not returned to the light and full fill his destiny at last.

The 'virgin birth' is a staple in many mythos, not just christianity.

The story is about the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin, not the cannonization of Obi-wan 'certain point of view' Kenobi.

The PT has created what some people consider a 'revisionist' history of the SW Universe... GL has been tinkering with it for years anyway (Greedo shooting first anyone?) Like it or not, that's just how it is...

Of course, this is just mty 'Certain point of veiw'....

 

Anakin is the Chosen One, so Obi-Can and MasterP you're plain wrong.

Lucas said it and we are shown that he indeed is the chosen one.

He brought balance to the Force in ROTJ, not Luke.

And just because Yoda & Obi-Wan give up on Anakin, and its not mentioned doesn't mean there is still a prophecy and a "Chosen One".
Plus Palpatine wouldnt know of the prophecy for he is a Sith and knows nothing of Jedi lore.

I do love the bashers logic (sorry what logic?), that if its not mentioned then its just thrown away and doesn't exist. Must mean that the Chosen One thing was just to confuse us....yeah right...

 

"Leia comes in as the catalyst of the very end. Just as Vader is unwilling to come back to the light, Luke is unwilling to fight Vader on the DSII. So Vader, either feeling Luke's thoughts or being told by the force, mentions Leia while Luke is hiding. Luke is provoked, and attacks Vader, and the rest is history. It's possible that, like Obiwan, Luke hears the will of the force after cutting off his hand, but I think it's simply that he discovers that he, like his father, is a Jedi."

I would accept that reasoning.

"Also, whether or not Anakin turned to the darkside, Palpatine was whiping the Jedi out anyway. It's just that if Anakin didn't fall the prophecy would have been fullfilled earlier. But instead we're given that 'one last shot' scene."

Agreed, the Force had to play catch-up after that little mistake. If the Force were more powerful than that, it would have simply denied Palpatine to use it as such. I have a thread about that somewhere around here.

Ah, here it is.

"Nope, he isn't. There is no Chosen One. Thats just George throwing us some red-herring mythological bones. Make all those Campbell fans happy."

So much for story, but hey! Look at all the pretty CGI.

"Well if it's harmony, then it is Luke that is the Chosen ONe, all that Anakin wrought was destruction and chaos. Luke is the one that brought about both harmony and balance. Obi-Wan and Yoda pass into the force for Luke not Vader. Vader kills the sith and himself for Luke. Luke also brings back the Jedi by being trained by both Obi-Wan and Yoda. Everyone is sacraficing for LUke not Vader, even Vader himself."

I hope you are being sarcastic, because if it was training that brought harmony, then Yoda and Obi-wan did more than Luke did. Maybe the Jedi Masters were the "Chosen Ones"?

"HOwever if one believes in the Chosen ONe - bring balance to the force, then the jedi must be destroyed"

Incorrect. That is only one probable interpretation, and not even that, considering Lucas has said otherwise.

"The Chosen One prophecy can't mess up, it's destiny, that's what a prophecy is."

It can be whatever the writer chooses in a fantasy film. Not all prophecies are the same. Besides, if it was "perfect", then all the characters are just marionettes, bouncing off of each other until their "destiny" is fulfilled. The characters have no drive or purpose, and no real input into the events that shape their lives. All that characterization in the films (less so in the PT ) is for naught.

Your theory turns the Saga into a pinball game, and the flippers are broken. The ball just bounces and bings around, until it finally drops down the center.

"Qui-Gon brings this theory to everyones attention and in so doing plants the seeds for the destruction of the Jedi and almost the galaxy. This idea is planted in Anakin, who then believing he's destined to save the galaxy becomes arrogant."

So what, then was the "Will of the Force" that Qui-gon was guided by? ? Your statements don't gel well together.

"I do love the bashers logic (sorry what logic?),"

Sorry, what Bashers? Even if it were appropriate to use this term to begin with, you are misdirecting it as a label. Stick to the posts, not the posters.

 

Sorry, what Bashers? Even if it were appropriate to use this term to begin with, you are misdirecting it as a label. Stick to the posts, not the posters.

Nah I'll do what I like thanks