Anakin isn't the Chosen One!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by MasterP, Jun 26, 2003.

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  1. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    arrowheadpodracer, you will just have to reconcile yourself to the fact that "Luker's" don't listen to Lucas. :(
  2. arrowheadpodracer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 5
    LOL [face_laugh]
    "Luker's". Thats funny. I like that.


    Message to Luker's:
    It's not up to you. It's up to the writer. In a fiction story, the writer is God.
    God says you're wrong. :)
  3. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    "Luker"?

    What - like in that song ....

    "My name is Luker....I live on the second floor...." ;)

    Sorry, that was...unforgiveable. Are bad puns still a bannable offence?

    g
  4. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
  5. Darthette Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2003
    star 5
    Anakin is the chosen one....now why don't you all go have some brownies or something?....
  6. little_Skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 3
    The Chosen One is supposed to bring balence to the Force. Anakin didn't bring balence to the Force. He brought distruction to the Force and nearly destroyed all the Jedi Knights almost causing an extinction.

    you have made a very intresting point MasterP

    Anakin did destroy the jedi but he did not bring distruction to the force he used the force to cause distruction. Now as far as we know there were only three jedi left. There was Obi-wan, Yoda and Luke anyway there were two sith Palpatine and Vader. the users of the force were unbalanced. all three of them used the force but the way they used it was diffrent two on the dark, three on the light. however it soon happened that there was only jedi left.

    Vader destroyed papatine sortof he comes back in the EU anyway Vader died leaving one Jedi and one Dark Lords spirit. one on one...balanced.

    thats my two cents. ;)
  7. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    How 'bout I finish this quote for ya... ;)

    "The Chosen One is supposed to bring balence to the Force. Anakin didn't bring balence to the Force. He brought distruction to the Force and nearly destroyed all the Jedi Knights almost causing an extinction...and then seeing the error of his ways, he finally fixed the imbalance which had occured while he was still a young innocent boy, thus redeeming himself. As Lucas stated...
    "How do we get him back to that little boy that he was in the first movie, that good person who loved and was generous and kind? Who had a good heart. " - Bill Moyers interview

    Anakin was never the source of the imbalance, he merely increased it, and finally ended it. In case there's still any doubt, he also said this in the interview...
    And obviously there are two sides to the redeemer motif in the Star Wars films. Ultimately Vader is redeemed by his children and especially by having children. Because that's what life is all about--procreating and raising children, and it should bring out the best of you.

    In another interview...
    "Does Anakin Bring Balance to the Force?

    "If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is grey. In each of us we have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces. All of this shall be explained in Episode 2, so I can't say any more!"
    - Lucas
  8. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    MBJ,
    I've always found this quote a bit confusing:

    "If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is grey. In each of us we have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this."

    Lucas seems to be saying that we need a balance of good and evil in each of us, but is he saying it's bad for these to become mixed and blurred? If so then what does he mean by balance of them? are we to keep the two sides balanced but separate within us?

    And how to know how much evil is a balance...?

    g
  9. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Did you ever see the Star Trek (blasphemy!?!) episode where Kirk is split into his two halves of personality. There was his scared side and the angry side. The scared side worried about everything, and the angry side kept wanting to take control and didn't care about consequences (sound familiar?). The point of the episode was that our personality is a combination of factors, not a single entity. See also Freud's id, Ego and Superego. Everyone one of us has an occasional "battle" within ourselves for varios reasons. Schizophrenics take this to a whole new level, where the different aspects become individual entities in and of themselves.

    No man is an island. He is a series of keys. :D
  10. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    >>>>Lucas seems to be saying that we need a balance of good and evil in each of us, but is he saying it's bad for these to become mixed and blurred? If so then what does he mean by balance of them? are we to keep the two sides balanced but separate within us?

    My interpretation is that he's saying that we have our own balance between the two- everyone's got their own moral line which they won't cross, but when good and evil become mixed, it isn't easy to tell one from the other. In the PT it was all very straightforward, but in the prequels it's not so simple. (Obviously, driving towards making Anakin's choice to turn to the Dark Side one that the audience can still understand, even if they don't agree it was the right thing to do.)

    For example, Qui Gon uses the Force to alter the dice roll in TPM- if Watto had cheated it, then maybe it's OK to rectify Watto's "bad" action. If it's to free Anakin, then maybe it's OK to cheat on the bet whatever Watto did, because slavery is inherently wrong. If Anakin is going to save the galaxy, then that offers another spin on it (would the "passive" approach have been the right thing to do if he risked not winning the bet?) But however you look at it, the fact remains- Qui Gon cheated the roll. How you judge that is up to the individual- it's not a clear cut good/evil, but it's shades of grey.

    Or Anakin slaughtering the tuskens. The whole reason the morality of that gets debated so much is because it's mixed. Were the Tuskens bad? Sure. Did Anakin have a right to get angry? Of course. Does that mean that they all deserve to die? (IMHO, not really, no.)

    >>>And how to know how much evil is a balance...?

    Well, that's the big question, isn't it?

    We know it's bad to take a life- does that mean that Obi Wan was wrong to kill Maul? Or Luke was wrong to kill everyone on the Death Star?

    "You must do what you feel is right, of course..."
  11. InDookusDefense Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2003
    star 1
    "I think Luke is pretty much the perfect Jedi. He uses both sides of the force when needed, but also uses technology such as blasters and all. Plus, and this is the clincher, he developed relationships with the common people. He didn't think he was better than them or looked down on them. The Jedi, with their arrogance, believed that they were doing just as the force wanted them to, and that the sith were the only ones keeping it out of balance."

    I agree with much of what you say, but I think much of Luke's behavior is based on circumstance, as he had no other Jedi to interact with, as they were all DEAD, except for Yoda. Also Luke was a grown up before he started training, so he did not have the arrogance that many of them had.
  12. MobartZmuda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 4
    I don't see Luke being this "perfect Jedi". He was just as arrogant as any of the PT Jedi. Even in ANH, before he could be corrupted by his force powers, he spouts off about bull's eye-ing wampa rats smaller than the death star opening, like blowing up the DS would be a cake walk to him. In ESB, look at the way he treats Yoda before he is told that this green muppet is the great Jedi Master he is looking for. Luke could care less about what he perceives to be lower life forms getting in his way. And if you want arrogance, look no further than Luke at Jabba's Palace in ROTJ. With lines like, "That will be the last mistake you'll ever make pal" as he's being led to his death in hand cuffs, Or better yet, "you can either profit from this or be destroyed"--yeah perfect Jedi diplomat there, lol.
  13. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    You misunderstand - Luke wasn't the "perfect Jedi" until the end of ROTJ! He, like his father before him, made some good and bad choices. The difference is, Luke learned from his mistakes, whereas Anakin did not. This was the lesson Anakin learned from Luke, who finally sacrificed himself for what he believed - something Anakin was never capable of doing on his own.

    In the end, Luke finally showed Anakin what Anakin needed to be.
  14. Sith_Skywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2003
    The Chosen One is supposed to bring balence to the Force. Anakin didn't bring balence to the Force. He brought distruction to the Force and nearly destroyed all the Jedi Knights almost causing an extinction.

    On the contrary, he did create balance. He and Palp made two siths, and Obi and Yoda made two Jedi. His work did bring balance
  15. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Man, I get so sick and tired of the "number" theory... [face_plain]
  16. arrowheadpodracer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 5
    LOL same here.
    Behind the scenes on Episode 2. The opening piece of ANH, included in the last release of the OT on VHS. -

    George Lucas :

    "then we move into films 4, 5, and 6, where Anakins offspring redeem him, and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the force by doing away with the Sith, and getting rid of evil in the universe."


    and another GL quote from a cut magazine interview (reprinted from someone elses post)
    "The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one , and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."


    I think thats pretty conclusive.

    Anakin IS the chosen one.
  17. arabiansanchez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2001
    star 4
    Anakin isn't the Chosen One!!!!!!

    Yes he is. I'm so bloody tired of this. It's fact, confirmed by Lucas. I don't recall Luke defeating the Sith and bringing the force back into harmony.
  18. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    I just wanted to throw this excellent post in here.

    Ransom in SPY REPORT: Balance to the Force in 3SA

    "The only reason for putting a prophecy in a story is for the characters to misunderstand it. Otherwise all the prophecy does is give away the end. The deal with prophecies is that they always come true, just not in the expected way. It's dramatic irony. It's also how free will and fate can co-exist. (Be warned Harry Potter fans -- whatever that prophecy means, rest assured it is different from what Dumbledore thinks it means.)"

    "With that in mind, this tidbit is perfect. Since the chosen one and the sith apprentice appear to be different people in the prophecy (prophecies always have a deceptive ambiguity that leads to the misunderstanding), at the end of Ep.III we're led to believe that Anakin is NOT the chosen one, that Qui-Gon was wrong. I'm sure that's what Palpatine thinks. Later generations will think Luke is the only one who can destroy Palpatine, so imagine the surprise when he throws down his saber and accepts death over the darkside! The end of ROTJ shows that everybody was wrong, especially Palpatine. The lesson, as always: those who try to master fate will find themselves by fate mastered. (Credit to Tolkien for the last sentence.)"
  19. -General_Kenobi- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2003
    star 2
    This is why I love Ben Kenobi; everything is true from a certain point of view.

    There are 2 simple answers to this question and those depend on 2 different logics--choice and destiny.

    Luke Skywalker is the one that chose to bring Anakin back to the light side of the force. He is willing to risk his life in order to restore the good that once, as he believed, was his father. And he did it. He brought balance back to Anakin, who in turn brought balance back to the force.

    Anakin Skywalker is simply the pawn to destroy the disturbance that was Emperor Palpatine. He never really tried to bring balance back to the force. All he did was use the force for his own selfish desires. Anakin did not have it himself to do what was right, and it took his own son to teach him the right path. Following the destiny propaganda, Anakin simply did what he was destined to do.

    Who is more important in terms of the all out equation?
    IMO - Luke Skywalker.
    Who is the one destined to bring balance?
    Anakin Skywalker.
    Who is the one that actually brought that balance?
    Luke Skywalker by bringing balance to Anakin Skywalker.

    I don't believe in destiny. I prefer to think that Luke Skywalker is the one that brought the balance, and I am aware Lucas has claimed that Anakin is indeed the chosen one. But Anakin was wrong, and he is not a hero for what he did. Luke Skywalker is; he controlled his fears and fought for what he believed in. Unlike Anakin, who gave in to his fears and simply chose the easy path.

    I prefer to think that Anakin Skywalker was the force manifested, and that Palpatine is the one that unbalanced it by bringing it to his cause. Then Luke brought that balance back by restoring Anakin Skywalker's ideals, and restoring the force. In the end both Palpatine and Vader are destroyed, and the balance is restored.

    In any case, as I stated earlier, Anakin is the chosen one. But Luke is the one that REALLY brought that balance and peace.

  20. dsk2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 1
    Why was balance neeeded in the force during a time when the Sith have been gone for over a millenia? Does this mean that Mace (who brings it up) and Yoda and Qui-Gon and the other council members all knew that the force was imbalanced at that time? How was it imbalanced w/o the presence of the Dark Side as embodied by the Sith? If they knew the force was imbalanced why were they so lax and inactive during the events of TPM?
  21. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Why was balance neeeded in the force during a time when the Sith have been gone for over a millenia?"

    Because up until TPM, they were content to stay out of the shaodws and bide their time. It isn't until Palps starts making major power plays that the Force truly becomes unbalanced. Keep in mind - it isn't merely the presence of the Sith that causes imbalance, but their actions and misuse of the Force, which includes the destruction of billions of lives over the next 25-30 years. Since the Force is life, this is obviously a bad thing for the Force, thus it reacts to the threat according. Unfortunately, Anakin, being human, fell victim to human failings, and needed to be brought back on course.
  22. arrowheadpodracer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 5
    I prefer to think that Luke Skywalker is the one that brought the balance



    Johnny hates cheese.
  23. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    [face_laugh]

    Do you have the full post of that? Please PM it to me. :D
  24. Rastafarian_Jedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2003
    star 1
    ... What makes Anakin not the Chose One? Luke surely isn't the chosen one. He was busy getting zapped, until Anakin, struggling within himself, stopped the Emperor and killed him. Thereby fullfilling the prophecy... thereby being the Chosen One... It doesn't really matter who in the Star Wars Universe believes the prophecy. It happened.
  25. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Once all six films are complete, the following will make a nice audio and visual climax. We have determined that that was a statue of the Emperor falling and speculated that he was holding a "Peace Ball", but now that we have SEEN that, what do we hear? When panning over the crowd, you hear 2 people shouting something. One is undecipherable, the other is someone shouting "The son of suns, The son of suns!" Speculation at the time was that they were referring to Anakin and that he had saved the universe as some sort of prophet, and at the time, all we could do is wait and see if it would be explained...

    Well, in some ways, the wait is over. At the end of The Phantom Menace in the parade scene, right after the ships fly over the parade, you hear it again. - Not someone else shouting "The son of suns, The son of suns!" but the same person, the same 5 second sound, tone, etc... it is the same sound byte, listen:"The Son of Suns" from ROTJ and The Son of Suns" from TPM
    - TF.n


    So why would "Son of the Suns" be in TPM, if Luke wasn't born yet? ;)
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