Anakin isn't the Chosen One!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by MasterP, Jun 26, 2003.

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  1. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "What does Vader do to bring balance - nothing except kill Sidious."

    Yes, the very person who held the galaxy by the balls. Cutting the head off of the snake, so to say. ;)

    "I don't even think the Emperor knew about Alderaan's destruction"

    Immediately, maybe not, but there was little other purpose for the superlaser on the DeathStar.

    [Real Genius] "Making enormous swiss cheese?" [/Real Genius]

    Sid certainly knew what the DS was capable of, and Tarkin didn't seemed concerned about the consequences of using it as such. Even Vader kept his mouth shut. If Ben felt the disturbance, so did Sidious.

    "Besides why does nearly everyone always accuse Vader of destroying Alderaan?"

    Agreed. Tarkin was the bady in ANH. Vader was a lackey, sent to watch over Tarkin.
  2. MasterP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7

    Anakin isn't the Chosen One!!
  3. SpartanSlayer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Right on, MasterP!!!

    JK Burtola:
    Luke is the Chosen one because he brought back the balence to the force. Anakin destroyed it.

    I agree with you MasterP an Obi-can 100%!!!!!
  4. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Luke is the Chosen one because he brought back the balence to the force. Anakin destroyed it."

    So Sidious just went along for the ride?

    Puhleeeze. [face_laugh] Anakin was simply a tool, and he finally realized this in ROTJ.
  5. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    I agree with MeBeJedi (OMG, did I just say that? :eek: )

    I'm pretty sure there's a Lucas quote somewhere where he says that Anakin is the Chosen One. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

    Luke may have helped Anakin, but Anakin was the one who made the final decision that brought balance to the Force.
  6. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    YodaJeff I feel the same way you do.

    But I do reall agree with the thing MeBeJedi has said.

    The one thing that is false. Some people seem to thin Luke killed Paly. Wrong Vader killed him. I mean he only tossed him into that pit.

    Well Luke was reaching out to his father. It was his father that chocae to come back to the light. He had a reason to come back to the lightside to that reason was his son. But in the end Anakin was the one who made that chocae.
  7. Obi-Can Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    Well Luke was reaching out to his father. It was his father that chocae to come back to the light. He had a reason to come back to the lightside to that reason was his son. But in the end Anakin was the one who made that chocae.

    They both made a choice, a false choice because neither one of them brought balance.
  8. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Lucas said that Anakin brought balance.

    Lucas created the saga.
  9. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Obi-Can

    "Well Luke was reaching out to his father. It was his father that chocae to come back to the light. He had a reason to come back to the lightside to that reason was his son. But in the end Anakin was the one who made that chocae."

    "They both made a choice, a false choice because neither one of them brought balance." ?[face_plain]

    Even with anidanami124's spelling, that post made a hell of a lot more sense than yours did. Who, exactly, are you talking about? Are you now saying that neither Luke or Anakin brought balance? What was this "false choice" that "they" both made? ?[face_plain]
  10. Obi-Can Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    Where did he say that? I don't keep asking this to irritate, I really want to know. George says a lot without really saying anything. He infers but never definitively states facts.

    That's been my problem with this brings balance -- Chosen One prophecy, it's very vague and it could be seen as coming true just as easily as it could be seen as not. (I for one don't see where the balance is if only one Jedi is left). Very much like different people's takes on the various religious stories. Like Adam and Eve, some truly believe this to be our history others see it as just a parable. I believe that's George's intent, to build a story reminiscent of our myths and legends, such as King Arthur. From a "Certain Point of View" Anakin is the Chosen One from another its Luke and from another the galaxy got very very lucky.

    By the way, it's no secret I admire the Jedi and Obi-Wan greatly and didn't care for Anakin's character. However I in no way believe that Obi-Wan is a saint. In fact I find saints quite boring. I like that Obi-Wan is flawed and stretches the truth and manipulates Luke to get the outcome he wants. I like him because he tries very hard to do the right thing, but still fails. I also see him as the underdog, not quite as talented or powerful but he still finds a way to come out on top through sheer will and hard work. He's the kind of guy that plods along and no one sees him as being special but some how he's the person they depend upon. He to me is the Every man of the story, much more interesting than the demi-god.
  11. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gon are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

    -George Lucas, Interview with Japanese Magazine CUT

    (See a transcript and more information [link=http://www.theforce.net/episode2/facts.shtml]here[/link])
  12. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    Thanks YodaJeff.

    That settles this then.

    If you don't believe the creator of the saga, then well you're "focusing on a different reality" (to change Qui-Gon Jinn's phrase a little).
  13. Obi-Can Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    The quote goes on to say that: "Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

    So the chosen one is whomever kills the emperor. Anakin's is it then.

    more of the quote:
    "Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy,"

    Kind of a stupid prophecy, the person who causes the problem is the solution to it. What was the purpose? To cause devastation and then say never mind. Boy I'm kind of disappointed in the lack of depth.

    That means Qui-Gon finding Anakin and insisting he be trained was a huge mistake. Yoda and Obi-Wan were right,Anakin should never have been trained and Qui-Gon turns out to be a big blunder head.

    Oh well, George has spoken this thread is over.
  14. MasterP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    All you have to defend Anakin about being the " Chosen One " is Gl said so.

    Give me his exact words.
  15. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    more of the quote:
    "Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy,"

    Kind of a stupid prophecy, the person who causes the problem is the solution to it. What was the purpose? To cause devastation and then say never mind. Boy I'm kind of disappointed in the lack of depth.


    You're not really reading his quote right (you've taken it out of context for one thing).

    It is the Darkside and Sidious that are the problem, and which destroy the balance of the galaxy. Anakin just elects to join the Darkside.
    Anakin was the solution all along, he just never realised it.

    The Chosen One's purpose is to destroy the Sith, and create a new balance with the Jedi at the forefront doing what they have always done, be the Force's partner in continuing life.
    But with the Star Wars saga, we see a problem. The Jedi Order has become corrupt, arrogant and desperately decadent, to the point where change is inevitable. But this change will ultimately mean their demise because the Jedi Order we see are ill prepared to help the Chosen One not just create a new balance but sustain it.
    With the Jedi Order all but destroyed and extinct, the slate is wiped clean.
    With Luke Skywalker, we see the heralding of a new Jedi Order which will not only help the Chosen One create the Balance of the Force BUT maintain and sustain it for many, many years to come.

    The sad thing is the Chosen One joined the Darkside and helped aid the destruction of life in the galaxy and the Force itself. Yet thanks to the Luke (representation of the New Jedi Order), the balance is formed by the Chosen One and is left to the New Jedi Order to maintain.

    Does this make any sense?

    EDIT:
    MasterP, you've just been given his exact words by YodaJeff. Please don't be ignorant of whats just been posted.
  16. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Kind of a stupid prophecy, the person who causes the problem is the solution to it. What was the purpose? To cause devastation and then say never mind. Boy I'm kind of disappointed in the lack of depth."

    BUt you misunderstand the depth. The point is, good and evil aren't perfect. Anakin was made in response to the threat created by Palpatine, and was taken advantage of by Palpatine. Rather than use his power for good, he was corrupted.

    Although Anakin was created by the Force, he is still human, and subject to human emotions and responses. He never fully accepted by the Jedi Order, and modeled from a young age by Palpatine to see things in a new perspective.

    I know JenX will jump out of the shadows when I say this, but Anakin is a "tragic hero", which is quite an uncommon theme in most American films. His circumstances are misunderstood or seemingly beyond his control, and his resolution is bittersweet. Romeo and Juliet would be another good example. Without knowing it, their actions made their circumstances worse, despite thinking they were doing everything to the contrary.

    As has been said, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

    "That means Qui-Gon finding Anakin and insisting he be trained was a huge mistake. Yoda and Obi-Wan were right,Anakin should never have been trained and Qui-Gon turns out to be a big blunder head."

    But only in retrospect. Besides, even the Force isn't perfect. Were it so, it would have prevented Palpatine from using the Dark Side in the first place, or prevented Qui-gon from finding Anakin in the first place.

    Having perfect characters (such as James Bond) makes for boring characterizations.

    "Give me his exact words."

    Look up 5 posts. [face_plain]
  17. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    MeBeJedi I must ask has someone taken over your account ?[face_plain] Because I'm agreeing with you :eek:

    Ok any ways you have said a lot of thigns that make very good sense so far keep it up.
  18. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    [face_laugh] But I've always said this.

    What have I said that you disagree with? I'll clear you......uh, it up real quick! :p
  19. anidanami124 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    I'm not sure yet. ;) But again so far everthing you have said has been right on ;)
  20. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    In all fairness, that quote was translated to English from a Japanese magazine, and Lucas's quotes probably were first translated from English to Japanese prior to appearing in that magazine. Anyone who has had fun translating things using babelfish from English to another language and back to English knows that it can mess things up. However, I'm sure these translators are more precise and efficient than babelfish.

    I guess what I'm saying is that it could be possible, no matter how unlikely, that the meaning somehow was changed during the multiple translations. I don't think that's the case, but it is possible.
  21. MasterP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    I still believe that Anakin isn't the Chosen One. Slayer and Obi-can agre with me.
  22. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Fine, but Slayer and Obi-can aren't canon, nor are they Lucas. ;)

    [EDIT]

    From my good buddy (and esteemed team member) D_Lowe:

    "Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."
    --George Lucas

    I got this from the ANH VHS tape in the making of Episode II in the 2000 release.


    There, something for all to see, in English, no less. :)
  23. Sophita Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    FuzzyRat:

    Luke is the one that feels the conflict within Darth Vader. It is his faith in his father's love that turns Vader away from the Dark Side.

    True, but that isn't fulfilling the prophecy. Luke didn't do anything to kill Sidious, thus Luke didn't fulfill the prophecy, thus Luke is not the chosen one.

    Anakin was a puppet to the Emperor. He was unwilling to do anything against him. He protected the Emperor out of duty. He did not bring ballance to the force. He throw an old man to his death. It is Luke's love for his lost father that brings balance to the force.

    Anakin killed the Emperor; his reasons for doing so are a moot point. Saying luke's love for his father is what did it is like saying that if you write a book inspired by a "muse", then the muse is the author.

    "The chosen one the boy maybe"-Yoda

    That is a maybe, or maybe Qui-Gon was wrong.


    I think Yoda says may be, not maybe.

    Obi-Can

    I didn?t say it wasn?t there, I just think it isn?t true and is more a misdirection than a sub-plot.

    We've had no hints that the prophecy is false or that it's a red herring so far, to introduce the concept in episode 3 would seem, IMO, unlikely and a bit jarring.

    Again, just because a character says something doesn?t mean it?s true. Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan don?t believe it. They sense from the beginning that Anakin is dangerous and has much anger.

    What Mace, Yoda, and Obi-Wan believe doesn't really matter; they are hardly omniscient, and, as you've said, just because some characters believe it, doesn't mean it's true. Mace and Yoda are pretty ambivalent on the subject in TPM, and in AOTC they seem to be confident that Anakin will make the right choices.

    The term "Bring Balance" has positive implications, not the catastrophic ?end of the world as we know it? reality that we see take place.

    The end of ROTJ is hardly an armageddon. The Sith are destroyed, the imperials have suffered a crippling defeat, the good guys won.

    The PG rating is exactly why rape or unknown father isn?t brought up. "Don?t normally lie" what movie have you been watching. Everyone in Star Wars lies; "Certain Point of view", Palpatine = Sidious, hiding a marriage ????

    Sorry, I should have said in family movies, the good guys rarely lie. And you do raise a good point, but still, it's unlikely that Anakin's father (or lack of) is going to be come a major plot point; the only person who could really reveal anything on the matter (Shmi) is dead.

    I think the conceived by midis is totally unbelievable.

    In real life, I would think it unbelievable too. But if I'm willing to suspent belief that swords of light can miraculously stop at a certain point, teddy bear like creatures can beat a technologically advanced squadron of soldiers, and having practically every person in the galaxy related to another in some way or form, then I'm willing to accept that Anakin had a miraculous birth. :p

    I?d like to see exactly where Lucas said that "There really was no father", no one seems to be able to quote a source for this.

    I swear I've seen someone post it before, but I can't find it off the top of my head. I'll look for it.

    Even if he said that , doesn't mean as in he was conceived by midi's, could be he's a clone, like little Boba (they do have similar inclinations) or that he's just unknown.

    It's highly unlikely that he's a clone; if he was, the point probably would have been brought up during AOTC. As for unknown, well, then you might as well assume the midiclorian thing is true because if it's unknown than there would be no other explanation. (Unless the midiclorian thing were proved false, but, again, I don't see that happening.)

    No, you can?t assume that. Since we don?t know what the prophecy exactly says there could be many reasons why Mace said that. He also said a vergence in the force, perhaps that?s why Mace made that conclusion.

    No, it can't be the vergence part, because Mace comments on that
  24. MasterP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    Then GL must be pretty stupid to say he is the Chosen One if he didn't bring balence to the Force.
  25. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    How is turning back to the light and killing the only other Sith not bringing balance to the Force? :confused:
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