Anakin isn't the Chosen One!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by MasterP, Jun 26, 2003.

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  1. Sophita Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    Then GL must be pretty stupid to say he is the Chosen One if he didn't bring balence to the Force.

    But he did. That quote YodaJeff quoted on the top of the thread just told you that Vader achieved balance by killing Sidious and sacrificing himself. :/
  2. MasterP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    But you have to remember that his turning killed thousands of Jedi Knights. He did destroy the Sith but Luke restored the Jedi which makes him the Chosen One.
  3. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    If you believe in the EU.
  4. Obi-Can Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    How is turning back to the light and killing the only other Sith not bringing balance to the Force?

    Then conversly: Anakin caused the inbalance by going to the darkside and becoming a Sith (Sidious and Anakin) just as George said.

    So if Anakin had never been trained all would have been right in the galaxy and millions of people would have lived and we wouldn't have needed a Chosen One to begin with. It's a self-perpetuating prophecy, very strange -- very very strange.

    (This reminds me of my philosophy classes in college with the circular logic that gave me headaches for hours).
  5. Sophita Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    But you have to remember that his turning killed thousands of Jedi Knights.

    Which had no effect on the prophecy whatsoever.

    He did destroy the Sith but Luke restored the Jedi which makes him the Chosen One.

    No, he isn't. The chosen one brought balance; there's nothing in there about restoring the Jedi Order.
  6. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "So if Anakin had never been trained all would have been right in the galaxy and millions of people would have lived and we wouldn't have needed a Chosen ONe to begin with."

    Ahh, but there were Sith before Anakin was trained, therefore he didn't cause the imbalance, since it was there before he turned. If Anakin had never been trained or had never turned, Sidious could have easily found another apprentice.
  7. Obi-Can Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    Sophita,

    So please explain how he brought balance? What is balance in the force?

    (edited in)
    YodaJeff:
    Exactly, since Sith have existed before then killing Sidious didn't bring balance to the force And are you saying Georges quote is wrong?
  8. Obi-Can Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
  9. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    The Sith are what is throwing the Force out of balance. Killing Sidious made it so that there weren't any remaining Sith.

    "Always two there are..."
    At the time, the two sith were Darth Vader and Palpatine/Sidious. Vader turned back into Anakin, and before Palpatine/Sidious could get a new apprentice, Vader killed him. Therefore, there were no Sith remaining, which returned the Force back into balance.
  10. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Anakin brought balance in the Force by killing the Sith Master.

    In TPM we see that the Sith have returned after a millenia of extinction. In the PT we see them--meaning Palpatine and each apprentice, Dooku, Maul, and then Anakin--gradually taking over the Jedi.

    In the PT the dominant aspect of the Force is its Light Side. Then, when Palpatine takes over the galaxy, its dominant aspect is the Dark Side--this is the OT. By destroying Palpatine, the Sith Master, Anakin brought the Force back into balance. There are not tens of thousands of Jedi running an Order by an outdated Code which no longer works, but there are also no Sith.

    There is Luke, who is trained in aspects of the Light Side of the Force without being hampered by an ancient set of rules which did more to oppress the Order than to help it. (I believe there was something to the fact that Qui-Gon listened to the Force rather than the Code and was therefore a more effective Jedi. But that may be the topic for a thread in the TPM forum.)
  11. Obi-Can Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    "Always two there are..."
    At the time, the two sith were Darth Vader and Palpatine/Sidious. Vader turned back into Anakin, and before Palpatine/Sidious could get a new apprentice, Vader killed him. Therefore, there were no Sith remaining, which returned the Force back into balance.


    So you're theory is that when a Sith exists then the force is not in balance and it doesn't matter how many Jedi there are. So the Chosen One prophecy boils down to you must kill off all the Sith.

    Then George's quote is wrong and if that parts wrong then all of it could be.

    I think Luke is the Chosen one, he got Anakin to kill both Sith at the same time(himself and Sidious), either that or Obi-Wan and Yoda are awesome -- they figured this whole thing out and made it happen.
  12. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Anakin was no longer a Sith when he killed Palpatine. If he were, he wouldn't have killed Palpatine.
  13. MasterP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    Yes Sophita...please tell how and when Anakin brought balence to the Force.

    OH!!! I recall...um...NEVER!!!
  14. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    MasterP, do you have any evidence, or do you just come in here to re-state your original point over and over?

    Obi-Can: The Sith existed before but became extinct.

    Ki-Adi Mundi, TPM: "Nonsense. The Sith have been extinct for a millenia."
  15. MasterP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    Yes. I have avidence. It's called...OT.
  16. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    OH!!! I recall...um...NEVER!!!

    In the pre-SE version of RotJ, there was a scene where Luke was being killed by Palpatine. So, Vader picked up Palpatine, the last Sith, and um... OH YEAH! Killed him!
    You're confusing restoring the Jedi order with bringing balance.
  17. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "So you're theory is that when a Sith exists then the force is not in balance and it doesn't matter how many Jedi there are. So the Chosen One prophecy boils down to you must kill off all the Sith."

    Sounds about right.

    "Then George's quote is wrong and if that parts wrong then all of it could be."

    How does that make the quote wrong?

    To quote the quote... "Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy..." The "dark forces", aka the Sith, are what is disrupting the balance. Get rid of the Sith, and the balance is returned.

    "I think Luke is the Chosen one, he got Anakin to kill both Sith at the same time(himself and Sidious)..."

    But if Anakin is the one who killed both Sith... wouldn't that make him the Chosen One? He's the one who made the decisions that lead to the extinction of the Sith.

    "Yes Sophita...please tell how and when Anakin brought balence to the Force."

    What is your definition of bringing balance to the Force?
  18. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Yes. I have avidence. It's called...OT.

    I saw the OT too, and so did everyone else here who said that Anakin did bring balance to the Force.

    So...where's your evidence? You're going to have to be more specific than that.
  19. Sophita Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    Simple-

    Anakin converted back to the light side. This made him no longer a Sith, because Siths are darksiders. Anakin then killed Palpatine. When Anakin killed Palpatine, he wiped out the last of the Sith. Thus, he achieved balance, by killing them off.
  20. MasterP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    But if Anakin is the one who killed both Sith... wouldn't that make him the Chosen One? He's the one who made the decisions that lead to the extinction of the Sith.

    When did Ani ever kill two Sith???

    And there is nothing wrong with stating my thoughts on what I believe to be so.
  21. Obi-Can Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    In TPM we see that the Sith have returned after a millenia of extinction. In the PT we see them--meaning Palpatine and each apprentice, Dooku, Maul, and then Anakin--gradually taking over the Jedi.

    They don't take over the Jedi. Maul gets his you know what kicked, Dooku and Anakin become flunkies to Sidious.

    In the PT the dominant aspect of the Force is its Light Side. Then, when Palpatine takes over the galaxy, its dominant aspect is the Dark Side--this is the OT. By destroying Palpatine, the Sith Master, Anakin brought the Force back into balance. There are not tens of thousands of Jedi running an Order by an outdated Code which no longer works, but there are also no Sith.

    THe Jedi order wasn't outdated and who says it doesn't work? Anakin who believes in a dictatorship over democracy. The man who betrays the Jedi and everything thats good and decent to become a hinchman to a Sith. The Jedi philosophy is what saves both Luke and Anakin and the galaxy. If anything George in ROTJ confirms the righteousness of the Jedi.

    There is Luke, who is trained in aspects of the Light Side of the Force without being hampered by an ancient set of rules which did more to oppress the Order than to help it. (I believe there was something to the fact that Qui-Gon listened to the Force rather than the Code and was therefore a more effective Jedi. But that may be the topic for a thread in the TPM forum.)

    What ancient set of rules are you referring , the one that says Jedi can't marry. I think Anakin and Padme are proof enough why this rule is correct and wise. Anakin's attachment is the reason he falls to the darkside and brings devestation not only to his own life but to the whole galaxy. The only one feeling oppressed is Anakin, and if he had enough character/moral fiber he could solve his problem by resigning like other Jedi had (even Dooku) rather than succumbing to his darker tendencies. Qui-Gon as George said was mistaken, and listened to his own will rather than the force.

    But like you said this is for another thread.
  22. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    He killed the Sith Master and caused extinction of the Sith. He didn't have to kill two Sith in order to bring balance.
  23. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "When did Ani ever kill two Sith???"

    That's what was said by the person that I quoted, and (even though I disagreed) even if it were true, Anakin still was the one who returned the balance. Anakin did destroy the only remaining Sith.

    Again, what is your definition of bringing balance to the Force?
  24. Sophita Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    But if Anakin is the one who killed both Sith... wouldn't that make him the Chosen One?

    Well, yes.

    He's the one who made the decisions that lead to the extinction of the Sith.

    Yes.

    When did Ani ever kill two Sith???

    Okay, one more time-

    1) Anakin turned back to the lighside. This means he ceased being a Sith lord, so, metaphorically, he killed Vader.

    2) He dropped Palpatine down ye ole convient hole, and thus killed him. Therefore, he killed the second, and last Sith lord.
  25. anakin_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    THe Jedi order wasn't outdated and who says it doesn't work?

    Jocasta Nu's snooty attitude, "If it doesn't appear in our archives, it doesn't exist," seems to permeate the PT Jedi Order. They think their system is above mistakes and they have become inflexible--that is why they couldn't meet Anakin's needs or even recognize that he needed his training differentiated from the others. (It's basic educational philosophy--if I, as your average-intelligence public-school teacher, can come up with differentiated teaching methods to ensure that all of my students, no matter what their learning styles and backgrounds, can receive a top-notch education, surely this isn't too difficult for a bunch of 900-year-old Jedi who have been promoted to Councilship?)

    Anakin who believes in a dictatorship over democracy.

    Anakin was smart enough to know that the Republic wasn't working, there was corruption in the Senate, and everyone was being duped.

    The man who betrays the Jedi and everything thats good and decent to become a hinchman to a Sith.

    I think that "everything that's good and decent" is a matter of your opinion. I don't see too much good or decent in the fact that the Jedi are being made to look like fools and a Sith Master is taking over the entire Republic without anyone even noticing other than Yoda.

    Not that I love the Empire--I don't--and I despise Palpatine worse than any other Star Wars character (largely, I think, because people like to blame Anakin for his wrongdoings). However, I can certainly see how he was able to rise to power--the Jedi Order and the Senate were putty in his hands.

    As far as the prophecy--it was there; it had to be fulfilled. There are a lot of mythological aspects regarding the hero having to journey into the underworld and suffer--even make other people suffer--in order to come out on the other side. I think Anakin's story is related to this.
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