Anakin isn't the Chosen One!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by MasterP, Jun 26, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Obi-Can Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    "Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. "

    Ok Yodajeff,

    So reading this quote I get from it that once Anakin is taken over by dark forces the balance of the galaxy is detroyed.

    Meaning that Anakin's turning causes the inbalance not the exitence of the Sith.

    "but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gon are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice."

    So Anakin's turning to the dark causes the inbalance and Anakin's turning back to the light causes the restoration of the balance.

    One question-- Why bother? The Chosen One is saving the galaxy from himself?

    I reiterate, weird prophecy.

  2. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    One question-- Why bother? The Chosen One is saving the galaxy from himself?

    No, from Palpatine, and the other Sith Masters who have come before him.

    Why does everyone who hates Anakin like to ignore Palpatine's role in all this? Palpatine was the real evil.
  3. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin."

    "So reading this quote I get from it that once Anakin is taken over by dark forces the balance of the galaxy is detroyed.

    Meaning that Anakin's turning causes the inbalance not the exitence of the Sith.
    "

    My interpretation of the quote is that the dark forces are what destroys the balance of the Galaxy, and not Anakin's turning. The key word is "destroy". If it meant to say that Anakin's turning caused the imbalance, than the word should have been "destroys".
  4. Obi-Can Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    Anakin-girl,

    I'm not arguing that point, I'm saying that George's quote is wrong. His quote says that Anakin's turning causes the inbalance and if that's the case then Anakin's sacrafice becomes less meaningful.

    For example if I start a fire then I turn around and save 20 kids from that fire and become a hero, I'm not really a hero, I'm just a sick individual with a concience.
  5. Obi-Can Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    "Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gon are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

    -George Lucas, Interview with Japanese Magazine CUT


    Which in turn indicates a cause and effect. The first event is that Anakin is taken over by dark forces then that causes the inbalance.

    If he said Anakin will be taken over by dark forces that destroy the balance, You'd be right. The which in turn makes it pretty clear to me.
  6. Obi-Can Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
  7. Obi-Can Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
  8. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    " So you're theory is that when a Sith exists then the force is not in balance and it doesn't matter how many Jedi there are. So the Chosen One prophecy boils down to you must kill off all the Sith."

    "Then George's quote is wrong and if that parts wrong then all of it could be."


    George's quote isn't wrong...you simply don't accept what he considers balance in his own fantasy universe.

    The Sith have always existed, Every Sith before him stayed hidden and just did penny-anty stuff. Never has a Sith been in a position to take over and control an entire galaxy! Sidious is head and shoulders above all the Sith that existed before him. He's the Al Capone/Hitler/Michael Jackson of Sith.

    How many Sith do you know were in a position to have an entire planet destroyed on a whim? Don't you think that caused quite an "imbalance" in the Force, much less a "disturbance"? ?[face_plain]

    "he got Anakin to kill both Sith at the same time(himself and Sidious)"

    So now Luke used a Jedi-mind-trick to get his father to commit suicide? Interesting...

    "Yes Sophita...please tell how and when Anakin brought balence to the Force."

    "OH!!! I recall...um...NEVER!!!"


    Disagree all you want, but the story came as such from Lucas' head. This is what he wanted to happen. You needn't like his ending, but that doesn't change it at all.

    "You're confusing restoring the Jedi order with bringing balance."

    Agreed.

    "When did Ani ever kill two Sith???"

    When he stopped being and acting like Darth Vader, and when he threw Sidious down the reactor shaft!

    Anakin's change was symbolic, though his death made it permanent.

    "THe Jedi order wasn't outdated and who says it doesn't work?"

    Yoda and Mace talk about the problems of the Jedi Order a couple of times in AOTC.

    "Anakin who believes in a dictatorship over democracy."

    "Anakin was smart enough to know that the Republic wasn't working, there was corruption in the Senate, and everyone was being duped."


    Agreed. He had been convinced by Sid that getting rid of the government was the only way to save the Republic.

    "One question-- Why bother? The Chosen One is saving the galaxy from himself?"

    As well as the man who runs the entire Empire. Remember all those big white triangular ships, called Star Destroyers? They can bombard a planet with lasers from space. Remember the big round sphere called the Death Star? It could destroy a planet in a single shot. Sidious ruled the galaxy, and Vader helped to enfore Sidious' law. Vader was a deputy, not the sheriff.

    "I'm saying that George's quote is wrong. His quote says that Anakin's turning causes the inbalance"

    NO, it does not!

    ""Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy,"

    It is the "Dark Forces" which destroy the balance. Look at the subject-verb agreement, if it'll help...

    dark forces....destroy, not Anakin....destroys

    "Which in turn indicates a cause and effect. The first event is that Anakin is taken over by dark forces then that causes the inbalance."

    The downfall of the Republic, extermination of the Jedi and the destruction of Alderaan occured after Anakin joined Sidious, but these things were forseen and planned for LONG BEFORE Anakin ever even got off Tatooine. Remember that Sidious started the Trade Embargo on Naboo long before QUi-gon even met Anakin, and the clone army was brought into play by the actions of the Jedi council. The ball has been rolling for quite some time, Anakin merely sped it up.

    "If he said Anakin will be taken over by dark forces that destroy the balance, You'd be right."

    Read it however you want, but you aren't changing Lucas' mind about his own story. [face_plain]

    "For example if I start a fire then I turn around and save 20 kids from that fire and become a hero"

    Wrong context. Anakin believed what he was doing was right, and necessary to save the Republic. He wanted to help restore order, an
  9. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    //bows ;)

    [EDIT]

    [Matrix] Whoa! [/Matrix] What happened to a_g's post? Was there a glitch? ?[face_plain]
  10. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Yeah, what did happen to my post? ?[face_plain]

    Never mind...that post of yours deserves yet another round of applause, MeBeJedi. :)

    *applause* :D
  11. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
  12. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    The server has been randomly eating posts recently. :( I know that I didn't delete it, so feel free to repost it.
  13. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Well, mine certainly would have been more filling then a_g's, so it missed out. [face_laugh]
  14. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Yeah, it was just a short round of applause for MeBe and his brilliant post. :)

    *pats server*

    Are you hungry? Did my post taste like chicken?
  15. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
  16. Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 6
    For the force, "balance" means no dark side present.

    Anakin, redeemed, removes the last bit of th dark side when he throws Palps into the shaft. He just brought balance. And...

    ...just fulfilled the prophecy.
  17. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Jeez, G-S, you sure changed your icon quickly! :eek:
  18. FuzzyRatt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 3
    Okay, I go to work and we're on page two. I get home and we're on page five. Was it something I said? 8-}

    JKBurtola:
    One born of the midichlorians could have been of the bloodline. Henry VIII was born of Henry V. Luke was born of the midichlorians because, he was born of Anakin Skywalker.

    Balance of the force is fond within one's self. Luke gains that balance when he refuses to kill Darth Vader.

    "The Jedi Order has become currupt, arrogant and desperately decadent, to the point where change is inevitable."

    Very true, the force is out of balance in TPM. There is to much Light Side and not enough Dark Side. (more on this at the end of my post.)

    Obi-Can:
    I liked most of your longer post, but the midichlorians are Anakin's "father". There was on sexual assault on Shmi. [face_plain]

    DarthBreezy:
    "This is George Lucas's story and he himself said that SW is about the journey of Anakin Skywalker (his rise fall and redemption)...No amount of Anakin hating will change this fact."

    First off: I do not hate Anakin at all. Darth Vader is my second favorite villian of all times (Ming tht Merciless is number one in my book) and Anakin Skywalker is ninth on my favorite SW hero list.
    George has said a lot of things on the SW saga over the years. It has been the Adventures of Luke Skywalker. It has been the journey of the Droids (C-3PO and R2-D2). It is now (and who know for how long) the story of Anakin Skywalker. I take anything GL says now a day with a grain of salt. It may change tomorrow.

    anakin_girl:
    Glad you are back! :)

    "why do you think Vader killed the Emperor? Because he was going to get a cookie afterwards?"

    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    "No--he did it because he loved his son."

    ***gives Vader a cookie.*** ;)

    He can feel this love because Luke saved him. He could not even feel the conflict within himself. Killing Palpatine does not bring balance to the force (more at the end)

    "Anakin was no longer a Sith when he killed Palpatine. If he were, he wouldn't have killed Palpatine."

    Very true.

    "Lucas said that Anakin brought balance.

    Lucas created the saga."

    That Jedi Mind Trick does not work on me. I am not a weak mind fan. Lucas said that the Dark Side is stronger, that it was the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, that it was the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, that he would never make another Star Wars film, and the list goes on. 8-}

    YodaJeff:
    "Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gon are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

    -George Lucas, Interview with Japanese Magazine CUT

    I do like the fact you went and found this quite. It is funny that GL goes out of his way to show how out of balance the Jedi Order is in TPM which is ten years before Anakin falls to the Dark Side. Beside, Luke could not kill the Emperor because he throw away his lightsader like a fool. :D

    Sophita:
    "True, but that isn't fulfilling the prophecy. Luke didn't do anything to kill Sidious, thus Luke didn't fulfill the prophecy, thus Luke is not the chosen one."

    I thought the prophecy was about the one that would bring balance to the force, not the one that would kill the Sith.

    Maybe, it was may be, or maybe it was maybe. I don't have to script. Sorry, if I was in error on my post.

    And the best, I have saved for last. ;)

    MeBeJedi:
    Again, killing Palpatine does not balance the force. It was Luke's love and faith in his father that brought about the balance in the force.
    "I've got to save you."-Luke
    "You all ready have, Luke."-Anakin
    Luke not killing Vader and saving his father from the Dark Side is what balanced the force, not the death of Palpatine.

    True the sagas are
  19. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    I think the definition of "balance" that Lucas was trying to portray was "a stable state", and not "equal parts". The Dark Side disrupts the Force, so it isn't stable. Only by removing the remaining Sith can the Force be brought back into balance.

    Remember, this is balance from the perspective of a Jedi.
  20. Obi-Can Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    George's quote isn't wrong...you simply don't accept what he considers balance in his own fantasy universe.

    So explain to me what George considers balance instead of talking around it. His quote says that Anakin's turning causes the inbalance. So why is that.

    The Sith have always existed, Every Sith before him stayed hidden and just did penny-anty stuff. Never has a Sith been in a position to take over and control an entire galaxy! Sidious is head and shoulders above all the Sith that existed before him. He's the Al Capone/Hitler/Michael Jackson of Sith.

    How many Sith do you know were in a position to have an entire planet destroyed on a whim? Don't you think that caused quite an "imbalance" in the Force, much less a "disturbance"?


    Thank you for making my point. If Sith have always existed then Sith are not causing the inbalance, Anakin is. You say alot about nothing, Alderaan wasn't destroyed until the OT (20 years later), what does that have to do with the onset of the imbalance?

    "he got Anakin to kill both Sith at the same time(himself and Sidious)"

    So now Luke used a Jedi-mind-trick to get his father to commit suicide? Interesting...


    Who Luke? I suppose he could have if Anakin was weak minded enough. Even George says in his quote that Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself so he had Anakin do it. Meaning that Luke couldn't succumb to the dark side in order to kill the Sith so he had Anakin do it for him and then was clever enough to have Vader kill himself as well. Killed two birds with one stone. Did he use a jedi mind trick? I dont know you'll have to ask George how he did it.

    "THe Jedi order wasn't outdated and who says it doesn't work?"

    Yoda and Mace talk about the problems of the Jedi Order a couple of times in AOTC.


    That proves they were open minded enough to see the flaws. Flaws in the system doesn't mean it's outdated or that 1000 jedi need to murdered so two selfish individuals can get married and still retain their day jobs.

    "Anakin who believes in a dictatorship over democracy."

    "Anakin was smart enough to know that the Republic wasn't working, there was corruption in the Senate, and everyone was being duped."

    Agreed. He had been convinced by Sid that getting rid of the government was the only way to save the Republic.


    Anakin and smart don't really go together. His sophomoric solutions were pitiful and dangerous. So there's corruption in the senate thats so much worse than torture, and murder, and ruling by choking your subordinates when they mess up. Poor Anakin, he's been duped, convinced and pushed into becoming the guy thats got to go around murdering and tortureing all these ungrateful dissidents and rebels.

    In order to save the Republic?? Did you miss the part where the Republic becomes an Empire ruled by a dictator. Even I don't think Anakin is that dumb. Do you even understand the difference between democracy and facism?

    "One question-- Why bother? The Chosen One is saving the galaxy from himself?"

    As well as the man who runs the entire Empire. Remember all those big white triangular ships, called Star Destroyers? They can bombard a planet with lasers from space. Remember the big round sphere called the Death Star? It could destroy a planet in a single shot. Sidious ruled the galaxy, and Vader helped to enfore Sidious' law. Vader was a deputy, not the sheriff.


    So your point is that The Chosen ONe is saving the galaxy by killing Sidious, and we should overlook the fact that he helped and aided Sidious in all these heinous acts. I assure you that Vader didn't ask Sidious' permission to choke all his officers or to torture all his prisoners or to kill every padawan and Jedi he came across.

    So the murderous deputy is innocent of his crimes because he can always say "I was just following orders." Sounds cowardly to me. Besides, you really need to get educated on the Law, especially the part about War Crimes and crimes against humanity. You should Specifically read about the Nuremburg tria
  21. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    It was Lukes sub-concious he can fantasize about anyone he wishes. Leia didn't see him so I suppose that means to her he's still an evil villain. I always liked Leia.

    So I guess his sub-concious was also jsut fantasizeing OBi-wan, and Yoda to ?[face_plain]

    No he coudl only see Anakin, Obi-wan, and Yoda because he was a Jedi. Leia was not a Jedi.

    Perfect example if I say so myself, which I just did. Get real he believed what he was doing was going to save the Republic? Where do you get this from? You must really believe you have ESP or something you can see what Anakin believes and why he turns and everything.

    Ok what was going on in Anakin's head well watching his son die.

    Maybe it was this:

    Anakin's head: Paly is killing my son...wait he also is tryign to kill Leia who is my...wait he also helped kill a lot of Jedi...wait and I helped him because he played me for a fool....why that little no good

    At that minute Anakin comes back to the lightside and kills Paly.















    NOTE: ANAKIN NOT LUKE KILLS PALPATINE.
  22. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    [edited]
    Obi-Can & FuzzRatt, you're both reading things the wrong way.

    FuzzRatt:
    You seem to miss the point entirely, but thats to be expected.

    One born of the midichlorians could have been of the bloodline. Henry VIII was born of Henry V. Luke was born of the midichlorians because, he was born of Anakin Skywalker.

    Erm hello? Luke was born via Anakin & Padme's union, he may well have inherited a high midichlorian Count from his father but he was not born via midichlorians. Geez your logic is not even that.
    Oh and BTW with that logic, Leia must also be the Chosen One, because Luke & Leia are twins remember? ;)

    Balance of the force is fond within one's self. Luke gains that balance when he refuses to kill Darth Vader.

    What parts of George Lucas' words do you find confusing? And why do you persist in ignoring Lucas', the damn creator of the Saga, own explanation? I think I know the answer but I'd get banned for flaming.

    Anyway here is the quote/s again for you to READ:

    Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gon are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

    -George Lucas, Interview with Japanese Magazine CUT

    "Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."
    --George Lucas, from ANH VHS 2000 release.


    YJ edit: Let's try to tone down the flaming, please.
  23. MasterP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 7
    If Anakin was the Chosen One, he would not have betrayed the Order.
  24. FuzzyRatt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 3
    YodaJeff:
    I agree, that the balance that GL is talking about is one of no evil and only good. The problem with this is that it is not that balance he trys (IMO) to show us in TPM. He then trys to beat it in to our heads in AOTC. The Jedi Order is just as messed up as the Sith are by the end of AOTC. The stuff GL has always said that the Jedi Order was based around look for true balance, not balance from one point of veiw.

    anidanami124:
    "No he could only see Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda because he was a Jedi. Leia was not a Jedi."

    Very good point.

    JKBurtola"
    "Erm hello? Luke was born via Anakin & Padme's union, he may well have inherited a high midichlorian Count from his father but he was not born via midichlorians. Geez your logic is not even that.
    Oh and BTW with that logic, Leia must also be the Chosen One, because Luke & Leia are twins remember?"

    "That boy is our last hope."-Ben
    "No, their is another."-Yoda

    The chosen one is the one that brings balance to the force, not the one who father was the midichlorians. If Leia had saved Anakin be finding the balance within herself then, yes, she would have been the chosen one.

    "Balance of the force is fond within one's self. Luke gains that balance when he refuses to kill Darth Vader.

    What parts of George Lucas' words do you find confusing? And why do you persist in ignoring Lucas', the damn creator of the Saga, own explanation? I think I know the answer but I'd get banned for flaming."

    The part were they will main anything in ten years to GL. I am not ignoring Lucas. I have been following almost everything he has said for over 25 years. He changes his mind alot. What he said on one day can, and often is, differant the next. "The GL said so" point does not work with me. The points in the films do. You can us EU points or GL interview points, they both have the same value to me.

    MasterP:
    "If Anakin was the Chosen One, he would not have betrayed the Order."

    If the Order was in balance with the force, then he would not have fallen to the Dark Side.

    EDIT:(added point)
    The main differance in my point of veiw and the rest of the poster's point of view is what brought balance to the force. So I will ask a new question.

    How does killing Palpatine bring balance to the force? If Yoda had faced Palpatine in ATOC and killed him, would he then become the chosen one.


  25. Crispy_Fried_Dentic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2003
    star 2
    I'm gonna butt in here, and I know I'm gonna regret it 8-}

    Obi-Can:
    "So explain to me what George considers balance instead of talking around it."

    GL says here, in the quote so graciously provided by JK:

    ..."he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith"

    From this we can derive:
    Sith = imbalance
    Palpatine = Sith This is a known fact
    Palpatine is older than Anakin
    Palpatine was in existence before Anakin
    Therefore:
    The Force was out of balance before Anakin came into being

    Now, take TPM:

    "You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force. You believe it's this...boy?" (Mace Windu)

    Right here it's been stated twice, canoniacally(sp??) that Anakin brings balance not imbalance...by both Mace Windu and GL.


    You can hate Anakin all you like...in AotC he's a very gray character...not all good, not all bad. I happen to be fascinated with Anakin and I have been fascinated with Darth Vader for many years. But no matter how much you want Luke to be the Chosen One, he's not. No matter how much you want to believe that Anakin caused the 'imbalance', he didn't. The imbalance was there before Anakin was born, that is in fact the reason why he was born! The Force decided it was time for all the crap to stop and created Anakin to stop it.


    Obi-Can:
    "His quote says that Anakin's turning causes the inbalance. So why is that."

    Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy

    dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy

    dark forces which destroy the balance of the Galaxy

    In no way from that sentence can you derive:

    Anakin turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy

    - or -

    Anakin in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy

    Ok, that's enough outta me :D
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.