Anakin killing younglings?

"Luke was told by Yoda & Vader to confront Vader, you guys can mince words, but I can say that I am 100% sure they did not think Vader was redeemable at that point, so what do you think he was sent there to do? "

I would say to the best of their knowledge Vader was not redeemable, but they
may have thought if anyone could redeem Vader it would most likely be one
of his children, namely Luke.
I think the reason the statement is so ambiguous is b/c we're meant to
be unsure about it b/c in turn O-W and Yoda are unsure about Vader.

 

I never said that they thought he was redeemable. The Jedi have tried throughout to bring back fallen Jedi. They've never really succeeded. Anakin was the only one who did that and that is because he had immense guilt for his actions. Guilt that he buried after he vented his anger, on Coruscant. Guilt brought on by seeing Luke in the flesh and the desire to repent, deep down. When Anakin saved Luke and fulfilled his destiny, the two Jedi Masters watched. They saw what he did and realized that Luke was right. And as they wanted, Anakin died, thereby ending the Sith Order. Once he died, they helped him to retain his identity so that Luke could see him and know that he was saved. By turning back, they could help him make it all the way over, so that he would never be lost to the netherealm of the Force. They had long since forgiven him for his crimes. That's their way. That's the Jedi way.

 

^^^
Following Sinister's train of though, GL created a universe that transcended 'tribal' belief systems and familiar regligious contexts. There was the force and only the force. It had a good component and a bad one, all of which depended upon how the individual decided to use it. All living things had it, were tied together by it, and thus bound to each other. The force was the religion of Star Wars. It was the moral code of the Republic. It was all things to all people in a very basic way.

This fell in line with GL's philosophical mentor, Dr. Joseph Campbell, whose teachings of the 'mono-myth' stated that all religions here on Earth are essentially conveying the same message, just in different cultural contexts. GL took that message to its finality in the SWU. In GL's universe, the mono-myth is embodied by the force. Black and white, good or bad.

Another Campbell axiom (see my sig.) is that all heroes fail. They fall into the mythical abyss -- damning darkness. Only by falling do they appreciate all that they once had. Heroes universally climb out of the abyss and achieve their former status in one last heroic act, becoming the hero once again.

This is the story of Anakin. All the wrong that he did, the terrible things, unspeakable things, cannot in themselves ever be forgiven. But the fallen one can repent. He can be redeemed, either by the actions of another, by himself, or both in the case of Anakin's hero's journey with the love and supporting heroics of his son.

 

I like your signature, Obi Chron.

It's kinda funny, but this actually applies literally to Anakin: he metaphorically stumbles by falling to the Dark Side, but literally and physically stumbles after throwing Palpatine down the shaft, and Luke lies on the ground -- Anakin's treasure.

 

I do not like the idea of killing children. BUT, it was nessessary, as others have pointed out. OK, say Earth is attacked by an Alien force, but finds the nest. Now, it might be immoral, but i would destory that nest. oh sure, they are helpless, but do i want them to grow up and kill my people? NO. So we may not like it, but Palpatine made the best choice he could have. To reply to anothers post, preemtive strikes are only good if you have proof that the person(s) will act against you. Like with impulse muderers, they have found a common brain defect with them. So is it better to wait for them to kill people, or stop them BEFORE the bad things happen? Also, he may be a monster to the people he killed, but he is a hero to his side. PERSPECTIVE=IMPORTANT

That is all i have to say.

 

And I your sig. Cryogenic.

Ian's wisdom has depth and breadth. His performances prove that he thoroughly enjoys what he is doing and also believes in what it is that GL is creating. GL provides the skeleton onto which Ian, Sir Alec, Harrison Ford, Mark Hamil, Carrie Fisher, Ewan, Hayden and Natalie can put some meat onto.

Ian the actor and GL the director/producer may not see eye-to-eye always, but they make sure do make a beautiful movies together!

 

Ian is extremely intelligent. I'm not sure that he and Lucas have ever clashed over anything, however. Ian trusts him implictly. No two people think exactly alike, of course, so in this respect, you are entirely correct, but I don't think that Ian McDiarmid has ever voiced or demonstrated contentions about the saga of any kind. The signature is my anchor. Even when I have problems with Lucas and the saga, which I occasionally voice here, but quite sparingly, it serves to remind me that Lucas' intentions are deep and honourable, even if his choices and actions can be questioned.

 

Wow, a little sig discussion going on here? A nice friendly convo in the middle of a debate, very nice, lol.

I think the reason the statement is so ambiguous is b/c we're meant to
be unsure about it b/c in turn O-W and Yoda are unsure about Vader.

I like that thought Jedi-Queen, I like it a lot.

 

Again I stress that it would have been much more believable if Anakin had captured the younglings and taken them before palpatine or if the attack on the Jedi Temple had taken place at the end of ROTS after the death of Padme, the duel on Mustafar and Anakin's transformation into Vader.

 

It won't happen, but I for one agree.
Maybe for me it's a problem with seeing the entire SW saga as being primarily concerned with Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader's moral quandry; the redemption of a lying, genocidal, wife-beating backstabber. Seeing Vader die on the Death Star when he kills the Emperor, then witnessing Anakin die with Luke forgiving him doesn't send such a mixed message. Anakin dies at peace, with some measure of atonement; he doesn't get into the Jedi Afterlife Club to hang out with Yoda and O-W.

 

No it wouldn't. By putting the raid after the duel, it undermines the whole point of the final duels. It's two Jedi against two Sith. There's no help to be had. And capturing just delays things. His job is to kill them to prove he is Sith material. If he doesn't, then he's **** out of luck with saving Padme and he'll be killed for his uselessness. That's why Palpatine encouraged him to kill Dooku and betray Mace. Palpatine wants to make Anakin into a killer. A monster. He's no good to Palpatine as someone who cannot do what must be done.

Sith are killers. Cold blooded.