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Anakin really suceeded where Luke failed

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Old_Zen, Dec 21, 2005.

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  1. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    -Obi-wan killed Maul, but not out of anger and hate. Nor was Maul helpless.
    -Anakin killed Dooku in cold blood, using his anger and hate. It brought him closer and closer to the Dark Side.
    -Mace wouldn't have gone dark had he killed Palpatine, because Mace had control of his anger and was not killing an unarmed man. He would've killed a liar and a faker.
    -Anakin killed repeatedly in the Temple and on Mustafar, taking him all the way through.
    -If Luke killed Palpatine, he would've turned. Vader was conflicted over who should live and who should die.
    -If Luke killed Vader, he would've turned to the Dark Side.

    The trick is to not kill in anger and hate. Luke succeeds because he stops being selfish and starts putting his faith in his father, his friends and himself. Anakin only shut down his saber because he was confused as to what to do. One part of him wants to kill Palpatine, but the other part wants to save Padme. He only attacks Mace because the Korrun Jedi Master would've killed Palpatine, thus preventing Anakin from pumping him for information.
     
  2. Richard-Drahcir

    Richard-Drahcir Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 18, 2004
    Watch the scene in ANH where Luke sees his aunt, uncle and life burned up. After the tears and sadness is gone he looks very angry.
    This scene is a parallel to Anakin and his mother. He is devestated at first but then the anger kicks in and he loses control.

    If Luke had been fully trained as a Jedi at this point and the stormtroopers were near then I'm sure Luke would have lost it and attacked them.
    By the time that Luke is with Obi-Wan later on, he's had enough time to calm down and isn't gonna go after any stormtroopers but I'm sure that if in the same position as Anakin was, Luke would have exacted revenge on the stormtroopers too. The only difference would be that there would be no women or children to kill like Anakin did.
     
  3. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    No, he wouldn't because:

    1. PalpSidious was lying when he said that he was defenseless because he had the ability to shoot lightning from his fingers and after seeing ROTS, he could've had a lightsaber stashed in his robes somewhere.

    2. Palps was attacking the Rebel alliance with his "fully armed and operational" death star and Luke knows that it won't fire unless Palps gives the order so Luke felt that the only way he can defend the Rebels is to kill Palps.

    and

    3. According to the Return of the Jedi novelization, Darth Vader stopped Luke from killing Palps because he knew that Luke hasn't given in fully to the Dark Side like he was when Vader threaten to turn Leia into a Sith.
     
  4. andkiich

    andkiich Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jul 19, 2005
    Jedi or not, if he had been as angry and out of control as Anakin was with the Sandpeople, he would have attacked any troops he saw. He would not have gone back and talked with Kenobi. He would have went right to Mos Eisley himslef and went ape****.
     
  5. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host star 5 VIP - Game Host

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    Mar 22, 2004
    Anakin really suceeded where Luke failed

    On a side point, Anakin did a number on the Tuskens while Luke got beat. :D
     
  6. PyrhanaJEDI

    PyrhanaJEDI Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jul 26, 2003
    Nobody was stopping Anakin.
     
  7. prefontaine

    prefontaine Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Feb 6, 2005
    Yes. To Voodoopuudu you listen. The canyon. Remember the failure at the canyon. Luke couldn't even handle a couple of Tuskens while Anakin took out the whole village, thus probably why they were so afraid of that "crazy old man" in the first place...
     
  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Luke didn't go ballistic in ANH, because he didn't have Jedi training. Anakin did, which because he could feel it swelling in him, is why he went ballistic. Note that once Luke has Jedi training, he starts to make the mistakes that his father made.

    As to Vader's justification for saving Luke, he's not exactly a fair judge himself. He's trying to justify saving Palpatine's life, because he doesn't want him to die or Luke to turn. Palpatine has successfully turned two Jedi to the Dark Side. Vader hasn't. I'd say that shows us where Vader's head was in this whole thing.
     
  9. Lord_of_all_Noldor

    Lord_of_all_Noldor Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Aug 30, 2005
    Anakin really suceeded where Luke failed?

    Anakin isn't perfect, but he is the Chosen One, so this isn't a surprise.
     
  10. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host star 5 VIP - Game Host

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    Mar 22, 2004
    Yes. To Voodoopuudu you listen. The canyon. Remember the failure at the canyon. Luke couldn't even handle a couple of Tuskens while Anakin took out the whole village, thus probably why they were so afraid of that "crazy old man" in the first place...

    Yep, exactly. Anakin opened up a can of whoop a$$ on the whole village of sandpeople and Luke couldnt even handle a few. Certainly answers the topic. :D
     
  11. legion_of_me

    legion_of_me Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 6, 2005
    Luke had much less training than Anakin(at least from what episodes IV, V & VI indicate) Masters Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't have time to teach Luke the finer points of lightsaber combat and the force usage. Luke had to figure a lot of stuff out on his own where Anakin had Obi-Wan's training for quite sometime. I think there's too many grey areas to outright say that one was better than the other.
     
  12. voodoopuuduu

    voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host star 5 VIP - Game Host

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    Mar 22, 2004
    Masters Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't have time to teach Luke the finer points of lightsaber combat and the force usage.

    Yep. They also didnt teach him how to defend himself against Sith lightning. Thats something he could have really used. :D
     
  13. Blu-Bladed-Jedi

    Blu-Bladed-Jedi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 20, 2005
    George originally planned on having Luke turn to the dark side and have Leia then save the galaxy. He then decided against it seeing that it was to dark for younger viewers. This may be why some actions of lukes in ROTJ were dark.

    Its interesting...if he did decide to have luke fall the saga would be very similar...six films about a jedi who falls and then is redeemed. Except Luke falls and his sister brings him back.
     
  14. TrueJedi

    TrueJedi Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 22, 2000
    Luke struck at Palpy to try and save his friends who were getting wiped out out. Since when is killing the guy who is killing your friends a bad thing? If that were me, I would have sliced him open and danced in his guts.
     
  15. TheCRZA

    TheCRZA Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2005
    Lets think a second, does teaching Luke force lightning
    make him more inclined or disinclined to try Palpatine?
    He was reckless, so you want to give him the tools
    to go half-cocked and half-trained against Palpatine,
    when it's the very last thing they want him to do?
    No, they teach exactly what he needs to know...
    throw down your weapon. Calm, at peace.
    Yoda tells him, "no more training do you require,
    already know you that which you need."
    Suits me just fine.

    Comparing Luke being ambushed by Tuskens without any
    force training, or a lightsaber (he didn't have it yet)
    with Anakin ambushing the Tuskens, with 10 years
    of traning and lightsaber use is just preposterous, man.
    Totally ludicrous.

    And I would argue that Luke is not filled with out of control
    anger and rage when he discovers Owen and Beru, but
    grief, guilt and conviction.
    He doesn't chase the imperials down... he could have.
    He goes to Obi Wan and is calm, and at peace, and says
    "i want to learn about the ways of the force."
    Not for vengeance sake, but because it is his destiny
    and it takes Owen and Beru's murder for him to finally see it.

    Luke is his master's apprentice, not his father's son.
     
  16. farrellg

    farrellg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2005
    They also didnt teach him how to defend himself against Sith lightning. Thats something he could have really used.

    I don't think there was anything to teach Luke about force lightning. The Emperor is so powerful that Luke would be helpless if he ever experienced the full power of the dark side. Since Luke didn't learn anything about lightning, that must mean he was incapable of defending himself against the Emperor's lightning at the time.

    Luke had much less training than Anakin(at least from what episodes IV, V & VI indicate) Masters Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't have time to teach Luke the finer points of lightsaber combat and the force usage. Luke had to figure a lot of stuff out on his own where Anakin had Obi-Wan's training for quite sometime. I think there's too many grey areas to outright say that one was better than the other.

    I meant that Luke is better than Anakin in a moral sense, not in a combat sense. Anakin probably had superior Jedi skills because he had a lot more experience than Luke.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Who says that he didn't know? All they had to say was this guy shoots lightning out of his fingers. Don't drop your sword. Luke was making a conscious decision to not fight anymore.
     
  18. WitchKing66

    WitchKing66 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2005
    would u decapitate your mentor, your fatherfigure, for the past 13 years because he reveals to u he is part of the SkullAndBone Secret Society ==> Nay

    would u decapitate the ultimate evil, the Master of the Dark Side, the man who corrupted your father and made a monster out of him, and whose wickedness and evilness was unmatched for the past 20 years ==> Yea


    thats where PT and OT differ: PT is realistic while OT has a cartoonish/comic (black and white/good or evil) type of society
     
  19. farrellg

    farrellg Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 17, 2005
    Who says that he didn't know?

    The ROTJ novel says that Luke didn't even know such a corruption of the Force existed. He seems surprised when he's hit by the lightning.
     
  20. uwishuwereme

    uwishuwereme Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2005


    In RotJ he swung at him out of anger Sidious was trying to get into his head to make him give in to his dark side.
     
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Secondary canon. Doesn't prove that he did or didn't know it.
     
  22. Old_Zen

    Old_Zen Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Mar 18, 2005
    thats where PT and OT differ: PT is realistic while OT has a cartoonish/comic (black and white/good or evil) type of society

    Holy *****...I'm going to have to deeply disagree with you there. The OT is far from black and white.

    Vader becomes a grey villan. Boba is grey. Han is grey. Lando is grey. Luke does alot of dark side acts. Leia acts darkish. The Imperials seem more scared than evil...The only true black and white character in all the SW movies is Palpatine. Who is the ultimate villan that a tale like this needs. Besides even in the PT, some people would debate whether Palpatine or even the Empire were really evil!

     
  23. DS_Emp_Viper

    DS_Emp_Viper Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 30, 2001
    Well just because he holds his sword out doesn't mean it wont be knocked away...look at what happened to Yoda.
     
  24. TheCRZA

    TheCRZA Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 29, 2005
    Folks, Luke expected to die, either by the Emperor,
    or by the Death Star II blowing up.

    He threw down his saber because he was prepared
    to die to be right. It didn't matter if he
    knew a trick to defend himself or if
    he knew it was coming or not, Luke was prepared
    to die to be a Jedi.

    Luke knew that Palpatine wasn't coming down the
    ramp to pat him on the shoulder and give him
    an attaboy.
     
  25. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2004
    Nice topic.

    Anakin was very confused at that point in ROTS. Here was his mentor and friend, telling him he wants to help him save his wife,but he needs to turn to the darkside. It sounds like its falling to the darkside with good intentions [and I give you kudos for bringing that up] and though he wants to kill him for betraying him,he doesn't. Instead he wants to let the higher authority deal with it,but help them.

    Luke,on the other hand is betrayed by the Emporer. He toyed with Rebellion and set all his friends up to die. At first he thinks that they'll pull through so he keeps ignoring the emporer,but after enough of his taunts and reality sets in that they may actually die this time, Luke strikes at the Emporer and would have killed him if Vader did not interfere,just like in ROTS.

    The ending of ROTJ was supposed to show that Luke wasn't as ready as he thought he was. He still had some ground to cover and some barriers to put up. When Leia's threatened,he lashes out,Just like Anakin would to Padme. And as Luke stands over his father,he realizes he's making the same mistakes,and becomming just like him.
     
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