Anakin should have been more powerful

I do know the quote that gives an excuse to why the ANH duel was so weak. But it was more of an excuse than a canon explanation.

 

So what are you missing when George Lucas says Darth Vader needs Luke's help to overthrow the emperor,but Anakin could have done it.

 

Lol, I caught that. But you took the quote and went the wrong way with it. Lucas is saying an unsuited Vader could have overthrown the Emperor. After he became suited, Vader couldn't reach his full potential. He needed Luke's help because he was only 80% as strong as Palpatine. Lucas is not saying that RotS Vader is more powerful than OT Vader.

 

Exactly, once Vader was in the suit his full potential could never be reached hence, he could never best the Emperor!
Secondly, OT Vader had a much greater understanding of the Force and he was more emotionally focused with the dark side. Obviously, he was more limber in the PT however he was not as strong as in the OT! Come on now Zam, are you trying to tell me that you think Mustafar Vader would take TESB Vader on Bespin? NO WAY! I would bet on OT Vader any day of the week and twice on Sunday! LordVader's right!

 

Go Vader! All three of them!

 

But Lucas and Gillard also said that Obi-wan won because he was more experienced.

Hard to confirm. We do know that it was about destiny.

In a sense, you are correct.

Correct.

Except Lucas and Gillard discussed how the fights would work in each film. They would explain to the other how it would all come together and come to a consensus on how to portray the duels. Lucas would describe the character beats and Gillard would translate that into fighting manuvers.

Well when Anakin talks about his powers doubling, he's boasting. Note that Jedi never boast about being more powerful. The only boasts we saw was Obi-wan saying that Siths are a Jedi's specialty and Yoda saying that Dooku has much to learn. If you count that last one as a boast. It's more of the fact that he had a lot of anger that was uncontrolled and this did him in.

Yes, but also note that Yoda doesn't believe in the prophecy. Not until ROTJ when the prophecy is fulfilled. By the same guy who became a Sith. Yoda could've beaten Palpatine had it been his destiny to do so. The Jedi being stagnant is valid, but that does not mean that Yoda could not beat Palpatine if it was his destiny to do so. Because of the prophecy, Yoda is lumped in with the stagnant Jedi and thus loses the duel.

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful, but he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his

 

Lucas: But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku.


Anakin/Vader was stronger in ROTS than he was in the OT, he was actually on same level as palps.

 

I luv midichlorians.

 

Really? I thought you had a problem with them

 

Its not wise to josh with your Master in such a manner, the consequences could have a shocking effect.

 

darth-sinister, your quotes above do not support a conclusion that Vader failed to grow in power after Mustafar. There is no debate about the fact Anakin's potential was curbed, but progress in more power was still possible. OT Vader is far stronger than RotS Vader. OT Vader Force chokes from extreme distance, blocks Han Solo's shot with his hand, and uses the Force to throw things. We basically see PT Vader is agile and amazing with the blade. OT Vader is great with the blade and exceptional with the Force. Even Yoda in ESB says that the Force is strong with Vader and he is quite powerful. Just because he is placed in the suit, does not mean he didn't grow in power and become stronger than his former self.

 

With regard to the vagueness of Anakin/Vader's true strength with the Force: Does anyone think we will be shown how powerful Vader becomes...between the television series, future video games, books & other EU product(s)? The only reason I ask is there have been some excellent thougts/questions/theories raised in this thread.

 

The force will be unleashed, so I'm sure Vader will regain a few cool-points for that. It's still a shame that we didn't get to see a smidge of unsuited-Vader's power onscreen... I'd be happy with the getting to see the cut stuff on Mustafar.

 

You know, I've heard you talk about missed footage on Mustafar alot. Can you tell how you came by these shots, are they online? please cite your sources.

 

Like I said, I'd be happy with just getting to SEE the cut stuff.

My source for the info was leaks from the first draft, the second draft, the reshoot schedule and some horrible LFL quotes on why Spielberg told him to change it. So out went the barrel and container tosses, and the flying molten metal. (although the intro to that remains in the film, as do the scorchmarks on Kenobi's clothes before the lava rained down)

Mustafar wasn't the only major chop that Lucas did after conferring with his homies.
The turn was redone as well, and there was a lot footage cut-out besides the deleted scenes, but I digress.

If I had my choice, I'd willingly leave the crappy and rushed turn alone... just for a chance to see PT-Vader be OT-ish for one minute against Kenobi. As it is, the watered down version is extremely lame to me.

I am at work, when I get the time, I'll look for the articles and any links that I may have saved. Sinister may have some of it handy.

 

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful, but he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there?s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he?s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor."

I'm a fan of Lucas, but sometimes he can really be full of it.

Are we really supposed to believe that after the loss of an arm and his legs (which is what happened on Mustafar, by the way in ROTS), Anakin lost some of his ability to use the Force? And yet . . . after losing an arm on Geonosis (AOTC), he became twice as powerful three years later? Contradiction much?

 

Anakin to me will be always be the most powerful Jedi. After all Anakin (or Vadar if you wish) was able to do what Windu, Yoda, or Luke couln't do which is kill Sidious. Love is the only thing that could keep Anakin from getting even stronger. Love is the only true emotion that can bring anyone to total emotional breakdown. Whether its losing his mother (where Anakin had his first emotional breakdown) or the thought of losing his wife was just to much for him. Anakin was willing to throw away everything in the name of love. Deep down Anakin was really not a bad man. That is proven of course in ROTJ where once again love proved to be Anakin's most powerful weapon he had insided him. In the end Anakin, all he ever wanted to do is save the people he cared about most and Anakin showed that he was willing to go to any length to do so. Which makes him the most powerful Jedi there ever was.

 

RamRed, I am in complete agreement. Anakin losing an arm in AotC had already hurt his potential but it is very much downplayed. Sometimes SW is silly.

 

Or stupid.

 

What are these quotes? And what is the "intro" to the flying molten metal that remains in the film?

 

The only difference between OT Vader and PT Vader, is that the OT Vader is more disciplined with the wisdom that he gleaned from Mustafar. Blocking blaster bolts with his bionic hand, is nothing. Force choking from a distance was probably capable from any Sith worth his weight. We didn't see Vader do it, because as a Jedi, Anakin wasn't supposed to use the choke. Dooku does a variation of the choke when he crushes the pillar to bring it down on the Jedi. Hell, had Lucas not changed his mind, Palpatine would've choked Doltay Dofaine all the way from Coruscant to Naboo.

BTW, Yoda doesn't say he is powerful. He said that he was powerful. Granted, he speaks of Anakin in the past tense, yet that doesn't mean that it isn't any less true. Anakin killing Palpatine had nothing to do with power, since he never used the Force to kill Palpatine. He just picked him up and dropped him down a shaft. No Force shove, Lightsaber combat or lightning required.

 

The only reason Mace didn't kill Palpatine is Anakin betrayed him. Vader also only killed his master by chucking him down a pit. It's got nothing to do with power and everything to do with Palpatine's overconfidence and his misplaced trust in his apprentice's loyalty.

Anakin may have said it was love that caused his fall. However really it was fear. He feared to lose Padme, not because he loved her but because as he says "I can't live without her." It was never about Padme or Shmi. It was all about Anakin and his lust for power and control. He only truly understands love at the end of Return of the Jedi.

 

I'd rather see Anakin tearing up the Jedi Temple

 

Damn, excellent point!

 

Sinister can tell you the official word, my POV is skewed.
As for the molten letal scene, I hope these will do.

[image=http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z274/EyeBashBadWriting/Sparks01.jpg]

[image=http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z274/EyeBashBadWriting/Sparks02.jpg]

[image=http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z274/EyeBashBadWriting/Sparks03.jpg]

[image=http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z274/EyeBashBadWriting/Sparks04.jpg]